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Though no one is allowed in the jury room everybody knows all the evidence on which the jury bases its verdict. The jury is not allowed to consider any evidence that has not been accepted as valid by the court.Hi there, jt! How are y'doin?
I got a question for you. I know that in the States, as in the UK, the public can go and sit in on almost any court case and watch the proceedings.
I never knew you were also permitted to sit in the jury room and observe their deliberations as they decided their verdict.
Or have I got that wrong?
Hi there, jt! How are y'doin?
I got a question for you. I know that in the States, as in the UK, the public can go and sit in on almost any court case and watch the proceedings.
I never knew you were also permitted to sit in the jury room and observe their deliberations as they decided their verdict.
Or have I got that wrong?
No way what?
Aren't the moderators and admin....your peers?There is no criminal court jury here is there?
And we are being judged by our peers,
not a board of strangers aren't we?
I am not sure the "jury" scenario is even applicable here.
Oh, okay. I just got a little lost.I don't believe that jury deliberations are open to observers.
again this is merely my opinion but I just can't bring myself to take an internet Christian forum this seriously - to compare it to the legal court system is a bit much to me...sorry, this is not stated to offend but to show that not all agree with the clamour to reopen things in the reports.
Aren't the moderators and admin....your peers?
Though no one is allowed in the jury room everybody knows all the evidence on which the jury bases its verdict. The jury is not allowed to consider any evidence that has not been accepted as valid by the court.
I am glad that you recognize this is your opinion, for what it is worth the same can be said of our court system in the U.S. Should court proceedings not be public?
If you think the same thing did not happen with closed reports then you weren't paying much attention. The difference of course is that with closed reports people couldn't go to the thread to evaluate the "gossip". As for the benefit of this kind of openness the benefit is that staff can not hide behind secrecy and treat different members inconsistently.
I will make this as clear as I can so that it is not vague. There has been secrecy and conspiracy occur amongst staff. I know first hand having been both a moderator and a supervisor. I will point out to you only one example of staff "unfairness" that I have witnessed since the 777 debacle. One particular Sr. Staff member in one report thread overturned a consensus vote of staff that a flaming violation had occurred, this staff members reason was that the individual was simply stating their opinion and stating an opinion could not be a flame. This same Sr. Staff member in another report thread not three days later made the statement that a flame had occurred by an individual who made it clear that they were only stating their opinion. The difference was a fondness the staff member had for the former that was not shared with the later.
When questioned about this, the staff member would not answer PM's etc. When this was brought to the attention of this staff members supervisor the response was a vote of confidence that this particular Sr. Staff member would never do such a thing. Further PM's quoting and linking the report threads went unanswered. This was not an isolated incident by the way this particular staff member was very inconsistent and would overturn consensus decisions by teams under their supervision on more than a few occasions. There have been several more occasions of staff making inconsistent decisions and then closing threads which pointed out the inconsistency. As for being staff; I served on staff for over 2 years I know what happens in some closed threads and subfora.
An accusation that doesn't deserve a response.
Hi there, jt! How are y'doin?
I got a question for you. I know that in the States, as in the UK, the public can go and sit in on almost any court case and watch the proceedings.
I never knew you were also permitted to sit in the jury room and observe their deliberations as they decided their verdict.
Or have I got that wrong?
Well, as of this morning, I have access to all reports I make and those others have made against me. So, that kind of openness I think is excellent!
Thank you so much, Lee, for this much-needed change!!
You cannot sit in a jury room and watch them deliberate. They are behind a closed door with a guard. That is to protect them from being tampered with.
Here, HereMy 2 cents (and you might still want to give me change): open reports creates a "tabloid" kind of feeling with people who are not involved at all following every post in them just for the voyeristic nature of them. Open reports and the threads that follow tends to create an environment where people can "gossip" about accusations and the people who complain the most. I truly cannot see a benefit to the kind of openess that has been mentioned here - all I am seeing are vague accusations of "secrecy" & "conspiracy" and assumptions of unfairness. If you believe the moderators are unfair, then become one or support someone you think is fair. Otherwise the arguements just go in circles with people repeating themselves over and over.
Sour grapes make a bitter whine.
Is it secrecy that truly bothers you or just the fact that you're not involved in it to second guess and questions those with the responsibility to address things? And do you believe that you method of "fighting" is effective? The very word "fighting" tells me a lot - "disagreeing" or "objecting" would have been more appropriate words to use if there is a true desire for change.
You do? I don't.
Hi Jo you are correct. But this is not applicable as those actually deliberating the outcome of the case must not have any personal relationships or knowledge of the individuals involved. My point was that I can go and watch almost any trial, if there is inappropriate action on the part of any court officer etc. it is open to the public for accountability purposes. As a matter of fact that is one of the reasons why the proceedings are open to hold the court accountable.Hi there, jt! How are y'doin?
I got a question for you. I know that in the States, as in the UK, the public can go and sit in on almost any court case and watch the proceedings.
I never knew you were also permitted to sit in the jury room and observe their deliberations as they decided their verdict.
Or have I got that wrong?
There was no offense taken and no reason to apologize. Everyone has their own priorities. I put two years of service into this board spending several hours a day. If you think we are taking it too seriously why bother responding to us?again this is merely my opinion but I just can't bring myself to take an internet Christian forum this seriously - to compare it to the legal court system is a bit much to me...sorry, this is not stated to offend but to show that not all agree with the clamour to reopen things in the reports.
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