Animals, Thought, the Soul And LCMS

FaithT · Oct 1, 2020

Crows Are Capable of Conscious Thought, Scientists Demonstrate For The First Time

Many people insist that it goes against Christianity to say that animals can think, much less that they have have souls. Well, besides apes, crows have been found to have conscious thought. Does this fact go against LCMS teaching or is it ok to believe as a Lutheran LCMS that some animals have conscious thought and therefore may have souls that go to heaven?
I think that Catholicism which is my previous background, would deny this.

Brightmoon · Oct 1, 2020

Whales also , in fact whales call each other by name! Personally I have no trouble believing that animals think or that they have souls.

FaithT · Oct 1, 2020

Brightmoon said:
Whales also , in fact whales call each other by name! Personally I have no trouble believing that animals think or that they have souls.

I’d don’t either, but I do want to know the LCMS take on it.

Brightmoon · Oct 1, 2020

My bad I just realized I was in the wrong forum

FaithT · Oct 1, 2020

Brightmoon said:
My bad I just realized I was in the wrong forum

That’s ok.

Gregory Thompson · Oct 1, 2020

Hope1960 said:
Crows Are Capable of Conscious Thought, Scientists Demonstrate For The First Time

Many people insist that it goes against Christianity to say that animals can think, much less that they have have souls. Well, besides apes, crows have been found to have conscious thought. Does this fact go against LCMS teaching or is it ok to believe as a Lutheran LCMS that some animals have conscious thought and therefore may have souls that go to heaven?
I think that Catholicism which is my previous background, would deny this.

Curious, what is the LCMS position on Ecclesiastes 3:19-21?

FaithT · Oct 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Curious, what is the LCMS position on Ecclesiastes 3:19-21?

I don’t know.

Gregory Thompson · Oct 1, 2020

Hope1960 said:
I don’t know.

Might be a good question to ask.

FaithT · Oct 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Might be a good question to ask.

You just did.

Gregory Thompson · Oct 1, 2020

Hope1960 said:
You just did.

I meant, since you're Lutheran, you can ask if you want to know.

Just food for thought.

FaithT · Oct 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
I meant, since you're Lutheran, you can ask if you want to know.

Just food for thought.

FaithT · Oct 1, 2020

Id prefer to deal with one question at a time.

FaithT · Oct 1, 2020

Michael Collum said:
I meant, since you're Lutheran, you can ask if you want to know.

Just food for thought.

I’d prefer to deal with one question at a time.

Gregory Thompson · Oct 1, 2020

Hope1960 said:
I’d prefer to deal with one question at a time.

I was under the impression the passage I posted originally was related to this subject matter. However perhaps I was mistaken. My bad.

Nigel Malka · Oct 2, 2020

Hope1960 said:
Crows Are Capable of Conscious Thought, Scientists Demonstrate For The First Time

Many people insist that it goes against Christianity to say that animals can think, much less that they have have souls. Well, besides apes, crows have been found to have conscious thought. Does this fact go against LCMS teaching or is it ok to believe as a Lutheran LCMS that some animals have conscious thought and therefore may have souls that go to heaven?
I think that Catholicism which is my previous background, would deny this.

Are there animals in heaven - I would say yes, God created them and must like them so he would have them around. Do there have souls? well first you would have to define what is a soul, for me it is in having a relationship with Our Heavenly Father and as we know dogs can have a relationship with man then why not the same thing with God. Now we get on to the real issue, can an animal (not human) have a conscious thought to decide to believe in God and then to know and keep to his ways and for that I would think the answer is no.

FaithT · Oct 4, 2020

Anyone else?

Daniel9v9 · Oct 5, 2020

Well, simply speaking, humans and animals are created uniquely from one another. Humans are made in the image and likeness of God, whereas animals are not. We share many properties - intelligence and instinct are some of what we share - and animals can certainly be very intelligent, but they have no real understanding of sin and righteousness.

Will we see our pets in heaven? The Bible doesn't answer this question in any explicit way, but we can take comfort in that God will restore all things and make all things new, and it will be perfect, uncorrupt, and very good.

Nigel Malka · Oct 5, 2020

Daniel9v9 said:

Well, simply speaking, humans and animals are created uniquely from one another. Humans are made in the image and likeness of God,

Click to expand...

Daniel9v9 said:
Reading Genesis 1:26-27 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

I often think that we read the Bible using words we understand that don't have the real meaning that the writer wanted to convey especially when taken in what Jesus said:-
John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

What does God look like well in the first quote is God male or female or looks like both? We take it that God is male as he created the male first but then we come to the second part God is Spirit so our image is of Spirit not of matter

we can take comfort in that God will restore all things and make all things new, and it will be perfect, uncorrupt, and very good.

I hope you are right but looking at what God does I have a feeling it will not all be as perfect as we think perfect should be, but it will be very good.

Daniel9v9 · Oct 5, 2020

Nigel Malka said:
I hope you are right but looking at what God does I have a feeling it will not all be as perfect as we think perfect should be, but it will be very good.

Well, Scriptures describe the new creation as a world without sin, death, and pain, and a place where we get to share in God’s glory that Christ won for us. I can’t think of anything more perfect.

Nigel Malka · Oct 5, 2020

Daniel9v9 said:
Well, Scriptures describe the new creation as a world without sin, death, and pain, and a place where we get to share in God’s glory that Christ won for us. I can’t think of anything more perfect.

Well I hope you are right but I just have a feeling that we will not be doing nothing and if therefore we are doing something we will be challenged since life is a challenge. If given a challenge then we have the option of doing things well or failing, even some of his angles failed and they must have know God first hand. I just can't see me or anyone living forever in heaven being happy doing nothing. But Hey Ho I will find out soon enough for God is Good.

Animals, Thought, the Soul And LCMS

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Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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