Angry...

[MusicalProgrammer]

Today was our anniversary, (2nd married, 10th since we started dating), and it should have been a happy occassion, but was marred by an incident at dinner. We went to a very fancy restaurant, and were seated right by the wall with a mirror on it. A few minutes after we sit down, another couple was seated at the table right next to ours. A short time later, as I am responding to our waiter, I accidentally catch a look right at the woman's chest (she's diagonally across from me), and notice that, by virtue of her extremely low-cut dress, there is a lot exposed. Well, this flustered me a lot, and I spent all dinner actively avoiding looking in either direction (recall that the mirror was to the right). Despite prayer and trying to put it out of my mind, I just couldn't manage it, and my wife could tell something was bothering me, which ended up getting her distressed. I told her after dinner what it was, and she was upset because she didn't see it as a big deal that was worth ruining dinner over.

Now, I don't see it necessarily as little, because while I may not have lusted (sexually) per se, it certainly distracted me and affected my walk with God in a negative manner, as well as spoiled the special evening with my wife.

Now I'm angry at myself for ruining the evening, angry at the woman for her choice in dress (or lack thereof) that caused me, and perhaps others, to slip, and angry at Satan for striking at me like that. I know I'm really to blame, which just makes me more frustrated. There are enough struggles with temptation and sin without having to deal with seeing stuff like that on a consistent, daily basis (especially on a college campus).

I wonder how difficult it would have been for Jesus to remain pure and sinless in today's morally depraved society. (rhetorical, I know He would have)

I know all I can do is tighten the armor of God around me and keep praying for the new, sanctified nature where I don't notice these things any more.

Thanks for listening to me vent.

 

[Katydid]

You know, I don't know what to say to make you feel better. I know that must have been difficult. I was in a conversation about modesty, and some of the ladies comments were along the lines of,..

a man is going to look no matter what I wear

I don't feel convicted about dressing modestly

I can't be responsible for what a man thinks..



I think your post points out that as women, WE DO have a responsibility to not allow you to stumble in your walk. Whether we feel convicted or not, you and all other men, NEED us to be modest in our dress. She will be held responsible for her actions in this as well. I think you did wonderfully by averting your eyes and trying not to look. You should be commended for the self control you showed.

 

[erin74]

I agree with Katydid - I think you did the right thing. But I can imagine how disappointed you are about the night.
I guess that's one place you can cross off your list for next year.

 

[brokenbananas]

I'm sorry about your evening. At least you cared enough. And you were right, continue to put on the whole armor of God. Especially as a Christian, temptations will come your way . . . particularly those whose relationships with God are growing closer.

It's 2 am and I've been awake for nearly an hr. I was thinking on this various topic about how I dress, what is appropriate, what about the things I see, what are my responsibilities, the things I read or the things I write, how do I avoid temptations, and the list goes on.

We can only take one day at a time. Your wife sounds like an understanding woman. Don't continually dwell on this. Satan wants you to feel defeated. Don't let him discourage you, but take heart when you are tempted, God always provides a way out. Learn from this and move on. Maybe in a similar situation next time, ask your table to be moved or take another stand that would not have allowed this situation to continue to occur...maybe even leave the restaurant.

I know if my husband were to say something like that, I wouldn't be upset. Sure, maybe missing a very nice dinner, but his spiritual walk with the Lord is far more important.

God bless you,
Doris

 

[Jenna]

It wasn't possible to maybe move to another table? I know that sounds drastic to some folks, but I'm a huge fan of fleeing temptation (or unseemly distraction? lol). I completely agree with Katydid on this one. Women have a responsibility to dress modestly, for their own honor, and for the spiritual wellbeing of men.

It's sad that your wife wasn't more understanding of your struggle to do the right thing, what is very contrary to your flesh. Please don't beat up on yourself though, because of what happened. I'll bet that even your wife would rather prefer this situation, as opposed to having dinner ruined because her husband was unashamedly gaping at a woman's exposed breasts. Your lady can take her pick really. What would please her more? Would she like a husband who fights his body's reactions and makes war on his errant flesh under strong tempation, or would she prefer a man who does not fight and simply opens himself to the "charms" of another woman? We women can be weird sometimes. lol

If it is the missing chemistry and intimacy that your wife missed so much, why not try and recreate that for her on another day? True, not every day is your anniversary, but there is nothing wrong with celebrating the wonder of love and the great mystery of marriage any and every day. There are a million ways to wow her and set her toes to curling. *wiggles eyebrows*

 

[philknowles]

I am in the same boat sometimes. If I see a woman dressed like that, they're asking to be looked at. And that's a stumbling block for us guys, especially if we've fought this temptation before. And then our wives get mad at us. Yes, we need to be guarding our eyes and our hearts from this madness, but it's not easy. I hear you buddy!

 

[MusicalProgrammer]

Thank you all for your support and advice.

I feel better today after prayer last night for the ability to move on and not dwell. I do understand that most Christians practice modesty, that we as the body of Christ are out of place in this world, and that worldly desires surround us no matter what.

Katydid, I'm inclined to disagree very much with the people you had the conversation with: I definitely feel a much stronger desire to look (or relook) if there is a lot revealed as opposed to being covered. Of course, that may have to do with context; if everyone dressed modestly, maybe the urge would be there regardless. After all, I am a sinner, no matter whether in today's western culture or a more modest period of history.

In retrospect, yes, I should have asked to have been reseated; the problem was, there were very few tables for 2, it was insanely crowded, and reservations were essential (I had made them a week in advance), so I'm not sure if that would have been possible. At the very least I should have switched seats with my wife (she suggested that today, so in the future I think I can better deal with such a situation).

The restaurant had excellent food (best steaks in town); I think I probably could have run into this situation no matter where we had gone.

I definitely can see how God brought a lot of positive out of that negative experience: discussion and growth of my relationship with my wife, the ability to deal with such a situation in the future, and even discussion through fellowship on this message board. It's very uplifting to see how great and intricate the Lord's plan is, and how He can use anything and everything to deliver His will.

Thank you all again for your responses!

 

[Kelly]

Reminds me of a time my wife and I finally got a date away from the kids, we wanted to dine quickly and go on a drive (we were up north at her parent's cabin, beautiful drives). We chose to dine in a restaurant's bar and I ended up facing the television.

Fear factor "bikini addition" (or whatever it was called) was on. Great. I struggle with lust of the eye and had recently been forced to come clean. I wasn't even excited about the show (which is quite frankly disgusting) but it made the dinner stressful. I had to force myself not to look that direction, not because I wanted to lust, but because I didn't want my wife to think I was lusting. Luckily, we had good convo and dinner was awesome, we were off and in the car and chit chatting/enjoying the scenery in no time.

 

[Svt4Him]

I don't think it's sin to see a woman and think she's pretty, nor do I think it's sin to see someone exposed. Where it becomes sin is when you start to sneak looks and when you start to play out different scenes in your mind. So honestly give yourself a break. You are tempted when you go down a road with your desires, but because there is a situation to be tempted in, does not make you a bad person or make you sin.

 

[Syrup6]

I appreciate the integrity of the men here, keep it up! Your wives are blessed to have you

 

[MusicalProgrammer]

I don't think it's sin to see a woman and think she's pretty, nor do I think it's sin to see someone exposed. Where it becomes sin is when you start to sneak looks and when you start to play out different scenes in your mind. So honestly give yourself a break. You are tempted when you go down a road with your desires, but because there is a situation to be tempted in, does not make you a bad person or make you sin.

I agree with you, but it was wrong for me because it distracted me from both my wife and God. I wasn't able to just put it out of my mind and enjoy the evening with her at the time. Besides, the desire/lust was there to sneak additional looks; although I didn't, it was written on my heart.

 

[MERCY@GRACE]

YA know, I knew that men were visual, and that lust is one of the top 5 struggles, but you sharing your story makes me see the intensity!! Praise God you didn't entertain any illicit thoughts, I just have a hard time understanding (altho i believe the intensity) how a woman can be soooo distracting while not fantasizing. Is it the "concept" of "trying" NOT to go there in your head that made you so flustered??

I also agree, that we as christian women (the ones who KNOW better) should avoid provocative clothing in public places!

 

[Mrs. Enigma]

I think a lot of women do not understand how hard men have it. I mean women are constantly going around with sex parts sticking out of their clothes, or their clothes stuck tightly to and practically painted on sexual parts. Men do not normally go around like that.
Plus the desire to peek, is probably similar to the desire a woman may have to have cute guys notice her, or to have imaginary conversations with them in her head. Men are tempted to look at porn, women are tempted to read romance novels.
My husband tries hard not to look at skimpily dressed women too. He even scrolls down, so some of your avatars don't show while reading some of the posts ion the forums if it has a skimpy, etc. outfit in it. He is a really special guy. I appreciate that he tries so hard. It makes me want to keep him happy and be a good wife.

 

[acodno]

I can understand how that would have been a difficult situation for you. I can also understand how it would have upset your wife. However you can learn from your mistakes, next time you should ask the waiter to move you to a new location. It might have taken a little hastle but at least you and your wife could have enjoyed the rest of the evening distraction free.

 

[MusicalProgrammer]

Is it the "concept" of "trying" NOT to go there in your head that made you so flustered??

Sort of; thankfully, I never think about having sex with another woman or even trying to undress her with my eyes, praise the Lord, but there's just a pull to look. It's hard to explain, but it's wrong regardless. While it might not seem too bad to others, as per Romans 14:1-6, I need to be fully persuaded in my own mind, and that involves this "struggle" of the flesh.

 

[heartnsoul]

From my point of view, I think the worst thing a guy could do is to not admit he stared at a woman. It's better to come clean and admit what you see instead of pretending you didn't see anything. Also, it's good to not only acknowledge what you see, but also talk about what you are thinking and feeling.

As an example, just recently the other day, we were in a lawyer's office and the lawyer's secretary was unprofessionally dressed. She had on tight jeans and a tight, low-cut shirt on. I know my husband noticed her because I, too, couldn't help but notice her tacky outfit. She looked like she was ready to hit the nightclubs instead of being appropriately dressed for a corporate environment. Anyway, to make a long story short, when we got into the car, I asked my husband, "Did you notice the cheeseball in there dressed like that? I don't have anything against women who dress like that if they were in a nightclub or bar, but come on...a lawyer's office??" My husband immediately responded by saying, "Yeah and I also noticed the other girl in there that dressed the same way. I guess those lawyers must be paying them good money for breast implants!" I started laughing right away. I know my husband has never lusted over any woman except for me and he has always proven his loyalty to me. That's one of the many things I love about my husband. He is indeed a rare man who doesn't appreciate or respect women who dress inappropriately.

Knowing and hearing my husband's true thoughts about things takes a great burden off of my shoulders. So I would encourage you to be open and honest about your feelings and share your thoughts with your wife after the "incidents." And I agree with others, next time ask to be moved to be seated somewhere else.

God bless you.

 

[FranklinNoble]

We all struggle with this one, brother.

I agree - women need to be a little more discreet about how they dress in public. Unfortunately, most women are not Christian, and do not mind tempting other men at all.

 

[isaiah5213]

my husband and i have had that problem before, and i have switched places with him...

we were just dating the first time it happened.. and my then boyfriend really didn't notice or think about it, his eyes just kept watching to see what would happen (he was betting that her chest was gonna fall out because of the what she was doing and the shirt she was wearing.) so i politely switched seats with him. i guess it was a test from me to him... and he didn't get mad at me.. i am happy for that. he told me later he was really grateful, because it honestly hadn't occurred to him the number of wrongs it was to be staring at her like that until he turned to me and our friends ... and we discussed it among the four of us... men really do think differently than women. about 5 minutes later, there were several laughs and catcalls rung out, & i was so proud of my husband, because he refused to look. i could tell it took an enormous amount of restraint from him too....

you guessed it, the chest did fall out.

i am really grateful to hear many men's views here... it is encouraging, for some of the posters on here to point out they didn't do this because they lusted, they desired, etc.. it bothered them because they knew that to look was disrespectful to their wives/their current dates... they didn't do it because it bothered their wives. they didn't do it cuz' they knew it was wrong...

it is also encouraging for the ones who do admit the previous sin, to say "i fought it, and for today, this moment, i won that battle..." that is a huge victory...

 

[Clement of Alexandria]

I don't understand what the big deal is about breasts in American culture. I just finished spending all day with my sister and sister-in-law and they both had babies last month and they were both feeding the infants in front of the family and friends. No one got embarrassed, or anxious, or "stumbling" in the way you've described. You look, because it is a part of life that we as Christians all celebrate. But there is nothing to be afraid of from lumps of fat made for babies!

I think we all need to stop making a fetish that causes disturbances out of such a mundane part of the body.

 

[sammipher]

You know, I don't know what to say to make you feel better. I know that must have been difficult. I was in a conversation about modesty, and some of the ladies comments were along the lines of,..

a man is going to look no matter what I wear

I don't feel convicted about dressing modestly

I can't be responsible for what a man thinks..



I think your post points out that as women, WE DO have a responsibility to not allow you to stumble in your walk. Whether we feel convicted or not, you and all other men, NEED us to be modest in our dress. She will be held responsible for her actions in this as well. I think you did wonderfully by averting your eyes and trying not to look. You should be commended for the self control you showed.