Anglo-Catholic Questions

[9Rock9]

How do Anglo-Catholics differ from both Roman Catholics and other Anglicans? From what I understand, Anglo-Catholics maintain a lot of Catholic traditions like the intercession of saints, private confessions, etc, but reject the papacy.

Aside from not agreeing with the concept of the pope, are there other things that set Anglo-Catholics apart from Roman Catholics?

Do they maintain a Protestant view of salvation and justification? Is their view of the intercession of saints different from what Roman Catholics do, or is it pretty similar?

 

[Philip_B]

How do Anglo-Catholics differ from both Roman Catholics and other Anglicans? From what I understand, Anglo-Catholics maintain a lot of Catholic traditions like the intercession of saints, private confessions, etc, but reject the papacy.

Aside from not agreeing with the concept of the pope, are there other things that set Anglo-Catholics apart from Roman Catholics?

Do they maintain a Protestant view of salvation and justification? Is their view of the intercession of saints different from what Roman Catholics do, or is it pretty similar?

If all the Anglicans in the world were laid end to end they would not reach a conclusion!

The principal issue for Anglo-Catholics and also for Catholic Anglicans is that they have an understanding of the Anglican Church as being part of the steady stream of English Christianity dating back to the 1st and 2nd Century, long before the Augustinian Mission, and the Norman/Papal Conquest, both of which were part of a movement to try and suppress our authentic and catholic expression of Christianity.

There are many Anglicans who would acknowledge the Pope as the Patriarch of Western Christianity, and first among equals in the tradition of the 1st Council of Constantinople. There is a question of Primacy in that setting which is somewhat different from a notion of absolute authority and power, for us.

Anglicans, in the main, would see salvation as a function of grace, and certainly not the result of human aspiration and endeavour. Faith is the natural outworking of grace. (I found God only to find that God found me!)

 

[Unqualified]

I thought it was founded by Henry XIII?

 

[PloverWing]

I thought it was founded by Henry XIII?

Henry VIII split off the church in England from the church in continental Europe, but he didn't found English Christianity. There were Christians in England for many centuries before King Henry came along.

 

[Philip_B]

I thought it was founded by Henry XIII?

I think you mean Henry VIII. The English Church predates the Augustinian Mission by about 5 centuries. Henry VIII merely reasserted the autocephalic status of the English Church.

If Popes had acted less like Princes, Princes may have acted less like Popes.

 

[RileyG]

I thought the Anglican Communion retained Private Confession regardless if they identified as Anglo-Catholic or not?

 

[Philip_B]

I thought the Anglican Communion retained Private Confession regardless if they identified as Anglo-Catholic or not?

That is my understanding as well

 

[Unqualified]

Henry VIII split off the church in England from the church in continental Europe, but he didn't found English Christianity. There were Christians in England for many centuries before King Henry came along.

Did Paul go there? Who brought the gospel to the British?

 

[Paidiske]

I thought the Anglican Communion retained Private Confession regardless if they identified as Anglo-Catholic or not?

In theory, it's available to everyone. In practice, the use of private confession is pretty rare across Anglicanism, and vanishingly so in more evangelical/low-church settings.

To give you some idea, I've worked in parishes more on the catholic side of average, and I've been ordained nearly ten years, and I can still count on the fingers of one hand the number of formal private confessions I have been asked to hear.

 

[PloverWing]

Did Paul go there? Who brought the gospel to the British?

As I understand it, Christianity came to the British Isles during the time of the Roman occupation, sometime during the first few centuries AD. I don't think it's known exactly who the first Christians in Britain were; there seems to be some disagreement among historians, and perhaps it was a small, gradual migration. Some others in this thread (@Philip_B ?) may know more details than I do.

 

[Unqualified]

As I understand it, Christianity came to the British Isles during the time of the Roman occupation, sometime during the first few centuries AD. I don't think it's known exactly who the first Christians in Britain were; there seems to be some disagreement among historians, and perhaps it was a small, gradual migration. Some others in this thread (@Philip_B ?) may know more details than I do.

thank you

 

[Philip_B]

I think that there were six British bishops at the Synod of Arles in 314, which suggests that the church had sufficient structure to have at least six Bishops and sufficient standing that they would be received at the Synod. Later that century Pelagius was a (in)famous theologian, largely condemned as a heretic though sadly some of the teachings still attract a following. All of this points to an early Church in Britain. The legends of Joseph of Arimathea may lack documentary evidence, though it is highly possible given that there was an established trade route between Glastonbury and Ephesus and Tarsus supporting the tine mines in Glastonbury. Alban was probably the first British Martyr who died possibly as early as the beginning of the second century.

 

[RileyG]

In theory, it's available to everyone. In practice, the use of private confession is pretty rare across Anglicanism, and vanishingly so in more evangelical/low-church settings.

To give you some idea, I've worked in parishes more on the catholic side of average, and I've been ordained nearly ten years, and I can still count on the fingers of one hand the number of formal private confessions I have been asked to hear.

Thanks for your response. I have the BOCP and it has the Rite of Reconciliation in it. It's my understanding the same is for Lutherans too.

 

[RileyG]

As I understand it, Christianity came to the British Isles during the time of the Roman occupation, sometime during the first few centuries AD. I don't think it's known exactly who the first Christians in Britain were; there seems to be some disagreement among historians, and perhaps it was a small, gradual migration. Some others in this thread (@Philip_B ?) may know more details than I do.

It is my understanding from my basic education that St. Augustine of Canterbury brought Christianity to England.

 

[Philip_B]

It is my understanding from my basic education that St. Augustine of Canterbury brought Christianity to England.

I recommend reading Bede's History of the English Church and People. In that case, it becomes apparent that the Augustinian Mission took a lot of time to get the already extant British (Celtic) Church to celebrate Easter on the correct/western date. The clear inference of history is that Christianity, and indeed an organised Church predates the Augustinian Mission by about 500 years.

 

[RileyG]

I recommend reading Bede's History of the English Church and People. In that case, it becomes apparent that the Augustinian Mission took a lot of time to get the already extant British (Celtic) Church to celebrate Easter on the correct/western date. The clear inference of history is that Christianity, and indeed an organised Church predates the Augustinian Mission by about 500 years.

Thank you for the recommendation. My knowledge isn't very good.

 

[Deegie]

I recommend reading Bede's History of the English Church and People. In that case, it becomes apparent that the Augustinian Mission took a lot of time to get the already extant British (Celtic) Church to celebrate Easter on the correct/western date. The clear inference of history is that Christianity, and indeed an organised Church predates the Augustinian Mission by about 500 years.

I'd echo that suggestion. He also includes the martyrdom of Alban (which was at the beginning of the 4th century).

Funny enough, I just finished a presentation on this for my adult Confirmation class which is about to start. Here are my highlights of pre-597 British Christianity:

• When Rome colonized England, they inevitably brought some Christians with them
• Both Tertullian and Origen (early 3rd century) mention that there are Christians in Britain, although we have to be cautious with that
• At the Council of Arles (314 AD), there were three British bishops (from York, London, and a mystery place) along with a priest and a deacon
• There were also British bishops at the Councils of Serdica (343 AD) and Ariminum/Rimini (359 AD)
• Pelagius (the famous heretic) was born ca. 360 AD in Britain before he left for Rome ca. 385 AD
• Saint Patrick (mid to late 5th c.) was a British Christian before being captured by Irish pirates at the age of 16

So yes, there absolutely was an organized Church before Augustine of Canterbury. I'm a staunch believer of the notion that the Church of England existed long before the Reformation and Henry's divorce.

 

[RileyG]

I'd echo that suggestion. He also includes the martyrdom of Alban (which was at the beginning of the 4th century).

Funny enough, I just finished a presentation on this for my adult Confirmation class which is about to start. Here are my highlights of pre-597 British Christianity:

• When Rome colonized England, they inevitably brought some Christians with them
• Both Tertullian and Origen (early 3rd century) mention that there are Christians in Britain, although we have to be cautious with that
• At the Council of Arles (314 AD), there were three British bishops (from York, London, and a mystery place) along with a priest and a deacon
• There were also British bishops at the Councils of Serdica (343 AD) and Ariminum/Rimini (359 AD)
• Pelagius (the famous heretic) was born ca. 360 AD in Britain before he left for Rome ca. 385 AD
• Saint Patrick (mid to late 5th c.) was a British Christian before being captured by Irish pirates at the age of 16

So yes, there absolutely was an organized Church before Augustine of Canterbury. I'm a staunch believer of the notion that the Church of England existed long before the Reformation and Henry's divorce.

Thanks for the info! I need to put that somewhere in my mind so I can actually remember it!

(I'm amazed by how much people can remember! :O)

God bless!

 

[Deegie]

Thanks for the info! I need to put that somewhere in my mind so I can actually remember it!

(I'm amazed by how much people can remember! :O)

God bless!

You're very welcome. And while I agree with you, I feel like every year I can remember less. I literally had my Powerpoint slides in front of me writing that post out. LOL.

 

[Lukaris]

Plus the account of St. Alban in which his actual martyrdom is true but disputed when. However, a date as early as 209 AD is believed by many & a date no later than 304 considered by others.

Saint Alban - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org