Anglicans and gay sex: Anglicans only may debate; others may ask questions

[Naomi4Christ]

I sense a great deal of honesty and humility in his letter.

I personally don't see a reason why he should resign.

It would be hard to keep going in the UK if you are on the sauce. We just had a senior politician resign for similar reasons - his position was untenable.

Let's face it, not everyone is cut out to be bishop.

 

[chalice_thunder]

He is certainly worthy of our prayers. But I don't think it is appropriate to have him in a leadership position in church. Is the church so desperate?

Hmm - I don't think desperatation plays a part at all.

The Diocese of New Hampshire, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, issued a call to +Gene who was then certified by the General Convention.

Personally, I would not trust a "leader" in the church who has not addressed his or her own issues. (I know of too many cases where clergy appear wonderful to the casual observer, but are extremely abusive and/or inappropriate in their behavior with staff or certain parishioners.)

Since he is in active recovery for alcohol, I am taking it on faith that he is engaged in prayer, peer support, education, and honest hard work to remain in that recovery.

We call human beings to leadership. Even though we all want them to be Jesus Christ, none of us can live up to his example. The best we can do is humbly admit our failings and move forward.

 

[chalice_thunder]

It would be hard to keep going in the UK if you are on the sauce. We just had a senior politician resign for similar reasons - his position was untenable.

Let's face it, not everyone is cut out to be bishop.

I know church and politics are mixed. The Church and Government set high standards for both, and often those standards are not met.

However, the Church has something Government does not actively pursue: Forgiveness. (sometimes the Church seems reluctant to pursue it as well!)

I wonder what you think it takes to be "cut out to be a bishop?"

 

[Wiffey]

I am not obessed with this issue. I have lots of gay and lesbian people in my life and I count it a privilege to love them and pray for their salvation just as I try to pray for the salvation of all the people God has placed in my life. This whole issue requires a lot of compassion, not an iron fist. I have known of people who have struggled with their sexuality within the Orthodox Church and I have seen the gentleness with which they are handled.

But if the question of the acceptability of homosexual acts is raised, I think we should answer it truthfully. One definition of catholicity is what is believed everywhere, always, by all. There is clear Holy (big "T") Tradition on this matter. We must teach what is beneficial to salvation, not the what we wish were true.

There is pain involved in coming to know the Living God. We are all called to die, to carry our crosses and many are just as painful as a homosexual orientation. That is just what it means to be a witness, a martyr, for Christ.

M.

I fail to see why you are debating here, as you are not an Anglican and this is not a question but a statement that seems to imply that we should all just do what the EOC does. If we wanted to follow EO guidelines, we could just be EO.

Within the Anglican Communion there is a balance between Scripture, Tradition & Reason. Tradition is respected but is not the be all and end all. We are allowed to question and reason and exercise our free will WRT matters of faith and conscience. Thus there is a diversity of opinion...which is generally a good thing.

I can respect that others who are sincere Christians may reach a different conclusion than I do on this matter...and I can still love them and be in Communion with them and celebrate God's love with them and share the Chalice.

Ultimately, there are a lot of beautiful values in the Bible that include both chastity and charity. When these values come into conflict, each of us has to choose which of these values are more important to us...which is a very personal choice. In an ideal world these values would not come into conflict...but we live in an imperfect world and are all imperfect in one way or another.

One person may be sexually "pure" (by anyone's definition), yet be a total mess in other areas. They might lie or steal, or amass ten homes and ignore the plight of the homeless.

Another person might be gay and in a long term relationship, but volunteer in a third world clinic.

All of us mess up somewhere. I am not convinced that homosexuality is a sin. But even if I was sure it was a sin...is it any worse than the sins I struggle with?

I have heard that the issue is repentance...but who among us has a sin that they have repented of that they also continue to engage in? Gluttony, greed, judgment, hate? Why are we so determined to take the splinter out of another's eye when we have a plank in our own?

Love and tolerance are fine Christian values, as are values about purity. When they conflict, we must each choose what we personally value, weigh which action is more sinful....to judge another when we ourselves are also sinners in need of mercy, or to allow behavior that may not be (depending on your outlook) kosher. Each of us must look into our hearts and be guided by the Holy Spirit in this matter.

Whichever choice you make, I respect your right to make it and I respect your faith.

 

[karen freeinchristman]

I fail to see why you are debating here, as you are not an Anglican

Wiffey is correct; this is an Anglican-only thread. Monica, Child of God should really not be debating here.