Anglican view on End Times (particularly Israel)

[John Shrewsbury]

I am interested to hear what the Anglican view is on the End Times and particularly on Israel and the Jewish people. As an Anglo-Catholic, I would also be interested to hear the Anglo-Catholic and Old Catholic views on this subject.

With so much nonsense on the web and Christian TV about this subject it would be great to hear some clarity.

 

[GreatistheLord]

I am interested to hear what the Anglican view is on the End Times and particularly on Israel and the Jewish people. As an Anglo-Catholic, I would also be interested to hear the Anglo-Catholic and Old Catholic views on this subject. With so much nonsense on the web and Christian TV about this subject it would be great to hear some clarity.

You wont get anything meaningful, spiritualising the book of revelation without a halfway coherent explanation
Is lazy and embarrassing. Try the commentaries and you will see.

 

[Albion]

I am interested to hear what the Anglican view is on the End Times and particularly on Israel and the Jewish people. As an Anglo-Catholic, I would also be interested to hear the Anglo-Catholic and Old Catholic views on this subject.

With so much nonsense on the web and Christian TV about this subject it would be great to hear some clarity.

Anglicanism is amillennialist and takes no special stand with regard to the signs of the end impending--as concerns Israel or anything else. The passage that speaks of us not knowing the time or place of the Second Coming is cited much more often in Anglican circles than anything that predicts the end based upon certain contemporary political developments.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

We take a dim view of the way dispensationalists take current events and try to read these events back into the Bible. As you noticed, a lot of radio and T.V. preachers misuse scriptures that way. We don't see the Bible as a book of secret codes you can figure out to predict the future. We don't look for comets or earthquakes or the the phases of the moon as signs. We don't use numerology tricks to foretell what will happen - we are not interested in "signs" that supposedly predict the future. We don't believe Christ has a series of secret or spiritual or partial returnings, as some teach. He will return once and the whole world will know it and then the judgement.

 

[graceandpeace]

There is a great blog entry by a priest in TEC on this topic that sums up the points well: Ask an Anglican: The End of the World | The Conciliar Anglican

Individual views could be all over the map I'd imagine, but I think as a whole Anglicanism is amillenial & firmly rejects dispensationalist theology.

 

[PaladinValer]

I am interested to hear what the Anglican view is on the End Times and particularly on Israel and the Jewish people. As an Anglo-Catholic, I would also be interested to hear the Anglo-Catholic and Old Catholic views on this subject.

With so much nonsense on the web and Christian TV about this subject it would be great to hear some clarity.

Dispensationalism is right out, as is all Premillennialist belief.

Anglicanism has historically embraced the orthodox belief of Amillennialism.

Christian Zionism is largely taboo, and rightly so, as it is hardly "Christian" at all. Quite the contrary really.

 

[everbecoming2007]

If it gives any indication of Anglican thought, I've never even been interested enough in all that "End Time" stuff to even pause and think about it. I've never heard another Anglican even mention it. For me it is enough to believe Christ shall come again to judge the quick and the dead, and his kingdom shall have no end.

 

[Liberasit]

If it gives any indication of Anglican thought, I've never even been interested enough in all that "End Time" stuff to even pause and think about it. I've never heard another Anglican even mention it. For me it is enough to believe Christ shall come again to judge the quick and the dead, and his kingdom shall have no end.

My experience also.

We live in in-between times, the period between the first and second comings of Christ. As a result we live in both the flesh and the spirit. We have to make the most of the lives we are living in the present - Jesus came so that we would have life and live it to the full - and to be a light in the darkness.

 

[John Shrewsbury]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[godenver1]

Oh boy, coming from a Baptist background, I also commonly get confused about this. As others have pointed out, amillennialism seems to be the orthodox view here, although I'd still probably stuff up my explanation of it. As far as I know, the 1000 years is symbolic and Christ will return once to judge the living and the dead. I know PaladinValer amongst others here and have a greater grip on sound theology than I, so I'm sure they'll lead you straight If I don't

 

[PaladinValer]

Oh boy, coming from a Baptist background, I also commonly get confused about this. As others have pointed out, amillennialism seems to be the orthodox view here, although I'd still probably stuff up my explanation of it. As far as I know, the 1000 years is symbolic and Christ will return once to judge the living and the dead. I know PaladinValer amongst others here and have a greater grip on sound theology than I, so I'm sure they'll lead you straight If I don't

Your post's "timeline", as it were, is just fine.

The "1,000 years" is symbolic, but we do know that, sometime in the future...tomorrow...in a flash...in a million years from now...but definitely later, Christ will come again. And in His Second Advent, the angelic trumpet will herald His coming and the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven itself, which will unite with our material plane. With Christ comes healing in His wings and life to all the deceased, who will hear the call and, with God's grace, their souls shall burst out of sheol/hades and rejoin reconstituted, healed, perfected, and transfigured bodies, the same ones as before, and become truly whole persons again. Then Christ shall Judge, and eternity shall be experienced as either heaven or hell, for death will be no more, being annihilated, and with its annihilation, the use of sheol/hades will be no more, and it too shall be utterly annihilated.

We know this through the Creed, which is the official Church's interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, taught though the Holy Tradition of the Church, and makes reasonable sense.

 

[everbecoming2007]

Oh boy, coming from a Baptist background, I also commonly get confused about this. As others have pointed out, amillennialism seems to be the orthodox view here, although I'd still probably stuff up my explanation of it. As far as I know, the 1000 years is symbolic and Christ will return once to judge the living and the dead. I know PaladinValer amongst others here and have a greater grip on sound theology than I, so I'm sure they'll lead you straight If I don't

According to a book I finished reading very recently, Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, by Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick, the phrase "and his kingdom shall have no end" in the Nicene Creed intended to rule out millennialism. That book is written specifically from an Eastern Orthodox perspective, but as far as I know Anglicanism agrees with this position.

 

[godenver1]

Your post's "timeline", as it were, is just fine.

The "1,000 years" is symbolic, but we do know that, sometime in the future...tomorrow...in a flash...in a million years from now...but definitely later, Christ will come again. And in His Second Advent, the angelic trumpet will herald His coming and the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven itself, which will unite with our material plane. With Christ comes healing in His wings and life to all the deceased, who will hear the call and, with God's grace, their souls shall burst out of sheol/hades and rejoin reconstituted, healed, perfected, and transfigured bodies, the same ones as before, and become truly whole persons again. Then Christ shall Judge, and eternity shall be experienced as either heaven or hell, for death will be no more, being annihilated, and with its annihilation, the use of sheol/hades will be no more, and it too shall be utterly annihilated.

We know this through the Creed, which is the official Church's interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, taught though the Holy Tradition of the Church, and makes reasonable sense.

Thanks. I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject. One question your post raises for me is about the Kingdom of God/Heaven. Is it present with us through the Church or was it embodied within Christ?

According to a book I finished reading very recently, Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, by Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick, the phrase "and his kingdom shall have no end" in the Nicene Creed intended to rule out millennialism. That book is written specifically from an Eastern Orthodox perspective, but as far as I know Anglicanism agrees with this position.

It wouldn't be the first time there are numerous interpretations on what the creeds say

 

[PaladinValer]

Thanks. I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject. One question your post raises for me is about the Kingdom of God/Heaven. Is it present with us through the Church or was it embodied within Christ?

The Kingdom of Heaven, strictly speaking, is heaven itself, but God's Kingdom (the same thing) has three "provinces" if one wills: The Church Triumphant, the Church Expectant, and the Church Militant, the latter being, of course, God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which Anglicanism (and Old Catholicism) is its most visible member.

And yes, Christ embodies the Kingdom, and the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ; we become in communion with Him and He with us when we become members of the Church. That's why Holy Baptism is so, so important and so, so special.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Oh boy, coming from a Baptist background, I also commonly get confused about this. As others have pointed out, amillennialism seems to be the orthodox view here, although I'd still probably stuff up my explanation of it. As far as I know, the 1000 years is symbolic and Christ will return once to judge the living and the dead. I know PaladinValer amongst others here and have a greater grip on sound theology than I, so I'm sure they'll lead you straight If I don't

I also grew up Baptist and thought that the pre-trib rapture was Gospel that all Christians had always believed. What a shock to find out that was far from the case!

Mary

 

[MurphreeJ]

Interesting food for thought to be sure, but I've always taken the opinion that if (or when) we were meant to know these things they would be revealed (without question) to us.

The Book of Revelations is more than just a foretelling of the Second Coming, it's also useful to remind us why we need to be in Christ NOW... Over the years I've entertained questions about "the end times" and "hell" on numerous occasions. My response to the "what is hell like" or "do you think it's so bad" or "is it forever" questions has and will continue to be: "Why, do you plan on going there?!?" and thus often times when people probe and introduce conjecture about the end times I can't help but ask: "Why, do you plan on waiting until the last possible moment to join Christ?!?" In other words, while the study of Revelations is profitable, I don't feel that devoting one's life to trying to figure it out is. To me that implies a lack of faith. It will be what it is, and no amount of understanding will change it. We are told we WILL NOT know when these things will come to pass, yet many keep trying to figure it out as if they can know and thus be equal to (or be one up on) God (ie: eating of the forbidden fruit anyone?), which says to me that they wish to put off doing what they should do until they absolutely have to change.. which of'course is foolishness.

 

[John Shrewsbury]

Some great posts on here, thank you. Can anyone recommend some links/books about Amillennialism please?

 

[GreatistheLord]

I also grew up Baptist and thought that the pre-trib rapture was Gospel that all Christians had always believed. What a shock to find out that was far from the case! Mary

Why do you think its far from the case? Every arguement i hear is based on extra biblical "evidence" for amillenialism.

 

[Albion]

Why do you think its far from the case? Every arguement i hear is based on extra biblical "evidence" for amillenialism.

Other than for the passage in Matthew, I can't think of any such evidence,. Yet it's entirely correct that Anglicanism, like Roman Catholicism, is amil. That's mainly because the alleged Biblical evidence FOR millennialism, or some variety of it, is believed not to be meant literally.

 

[GreatistheLord]

Other than for the passage in Matthew, I can't think of any such evidence,. Yet it's entirely correct that Anglicanism, like Roman Catholicism, is amil. That's mainly because the alleged Biblical evidence FOR millennialism, or some variety of it, is believed not to be meant literally.

Its not the millenial part that is offensive to many, its the wholesale ripping out of the Bible of Israel as one of God's chosen people, the transfer of many OT prophecies to the church, the covenants that God makes become empty words. All
in a the name of an idea that has very little Biblical evidence and sold on the back of - "this is the truth, dont question it".

Maybe someone would like to explain the wars referenced to in Ezekiel 37 and Psalm 84 from a preterist point of view, but noone here can, simply because i) Its a future event and ii) God's defence of national Israel eliminates Amill teaching.