Anglican and Episcopal: how do they distinguish themselves?

[Albion]

Oh sure. There's some contact with other dioceses, but it's mainly done at national gatherings and conventions. From what you've said, there may be less of this than in your country, though.

 

[Soma Seer]

The international organization called the "Anglican Communion" has only one representative in the USA. That's The Episcopal Church. All the others are Anglican church bodies that are independent of the Anglican Communion. They may be named "Episcopal," but usually they go by the term "Anglican" in order to differentiate themselves from The Episcopal Church and to suggest that they adhere to traditional or historic Anglican beleifs and practices.

So the Episcopal Church is considered to be the "true" Anglican Church in the U.S.? And the Anglican Church in North America--which chose its name to give the appearance that it adheres to "traditional and historic Anglican beliefs and practices"--is really not considered to adhere to Anglican beliefs and practices?

Is that to say that the ACNA is more independent--rogue, even--than the Episcopal Church? If so, it sounds like I shouldn't bother studying the websites of the few ACNA churches near my home.

 

[Albion]

So the Episcopal Church is considered to be the "true" Anglican Church in the U.S.?

Some TEC members like to talk that way. Meanwhile, some of the Continuers still say that TEC is an apostate church. So it works both ways, but most people on both sides have outgrown that kind of pettiness. Most other denominations are divided between several or even many different church bodies, and Anglicanism is learning to accept that situation, too.

In some countries, there have been several "competing" Anglican bodies for decades, even centuries, so this particular "flap" we're looking at is mainly a North American phenomenon but nothing new for other Anglicans.

I remember at one time when The Episcopal Church sent out a notice to its churches that wouldn't even use the name of one of the main Continuing Anglican church when denouncing it. Fortunately, that sort of thing has dissipated and we even have cooperation on some levels between the churches.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Anglican Communion is of recent origin and has no real enforcement power over its members (as has been demonstrated often lately).

And the Anglican Church in North America--which chose its name to give the appearance that it adheres to "traditional and historic Anglican beliefs and practices"--is really not considered to adhere to Anglican beliefs and practices?

It didn't choose "its name to give the appearance" of anything. It's an Anglican church.

Had it called itself the "True Anglican Church in America" or something like that your comment might have some validity. The name chosen is about as generic as can be.

Is that to say that the ACNA is more independent--rogue, even--than the Episcopal Church?

No. But interestingly enough, it might be argued that TEC is the rogue church since it regularly tells the rest of the Anglican Communion that it will do whatever it likes, whether or not the rest of the Communion agrees with it or not. In fact, the Communion made a formal appeal for TEC to put a moratorium on same sex blessings until there was consensus...and TEC ignored it.

If so, it sounds like I shouldn't bother studying the websites of the few ACNA churches near my home.

The reasoning is a question, but I'd agree with the decision.

 

[Soma Seer]

It didn't choose "its name to give the appearance" of anything. It's an Anglican church. Had it called itself the "True Anglican Church in America" or something like that your comment might have some validity. The name chosen is about as generic as can be.

I suspect that the ACNA is valid to some people, invalid to others--and vice-versa regarding TEC. It all depends on who's looking.

...It might be argued that TEC is the rogue church since it regularly tells the rest of the Anglican Communion that it will do whatever it likes, whether or not the rest of the Communion agrees with it or not. In fact, the Communion made a formal appeal for TEC to put a moratorium on same sex blessings until there was consensus...and TEC ignored it.

Ahhh... Understood.

If I may ask, what Anglican Church do you attend?

 

[Albion]

I suspect that the ACNA is valid to some people, invalid to others--and vice-versa regarding TEC. It all depends on who's looking. And, yes, that statement applies to any/all religious faith groups.



Ahhh... Understood.

If I may ask, what Anglican Church do you attend?

I am a Continuing Anglican. I prefer not to post a lot of personal details anywhere online, not on Facebook, or blogsites, or on CF. I guess I'm just a more private person than many younger people are these days.

 

[Soma Seer]

I am a Continuing Anglican.

In other words, you likely are a member of one of the following Anglican church bodies (courtesy of Wikipedia):

• Anglican Church
• Anglican Catholic Church (includes the Traditional Anglican Church of Canada)
• Anglican Church of Virginia
• Anglican Episcopal Church
• Anglican Orthodox Church
• Anglican Province of America
• Anglican Province of Christ the King
• Christian Episcopal Church of North America
• Diocese of the Great Lakes
• Diocese of the Holy Cross
• Episcopal Missionary Church
• Holy Catholic Church--Western Rite
• Orthodox Anglican Church
• Southern Episcopal Church
• Traditional Anglican Communion
• Anglican Church in America
• United Anglican Church
• United Episcopal Church of North America

Whew!

I prefer not to post a lot of personal details anywhere online, not on Facebook, or blogsites, or on CF. I guess I'm just a more private person than many younger people are these days.

If you're 35, or older, I understand; if you're under 35, I applaud you for maintaining your privacy online.

 

[Albion]

nglican Church (Don't know what this entry is supposed to mean)

• Anglican Catholic Church (includes the Traditional Anglican Church of Canada)
• Anglican Church of Virginia
• Anglican Episcopal Church
• Anglican Orthodox Church
• Anglican Province of America
• Anglican Province of Christ the King
• Christian Episcopal Church of North America
• Diocese of the Great Lakes
• Diocese of the Holy Cross
• Episcopal Missionary Church
• Holy Catholic Church--Western Rite
• Orthodox Anglican Church
• Southern Episcopal Church
• Traditional Anglican Communion
• Anglican Church in America
• United Anglican Church
• United Episcopal Church of North America

Whew!

Sorta. There are three historic "Continuing Anglican" churches in the USA that came out of the original movement with bishops in succession from The Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion, and all are in intercommunion with each other, attend each others conventions, share in the consecration of each others bishops (which I think is referred to on that Wikipedia site) and adhere to the original principles of the movement. They have held unity talks.

MOST of the others on the list no longer exist, barely exist, are duplicates, or are churches with different histories but yet are usually classified as "Continuing Anglican" for convenience. It's popular to look at a list like this and shake one's head, but the reality is much less daunting if the details are known.

And there are even more churches around that have the word "Anglican" or "Episcopal" in their names--because the words aren't patented. You'll get sued if you start a church named the Independent Christian Science church, but anyone who buys vestments can call his church "Episcopal" or "Anglican." I don't think this reflects badly upon either The Episcopal Church or the Anglican churches.

 

[Soma Seer]

MOST of the others on the list no longer exist, barely exist, are duplicates, or are churches with different histories but yet are usually classified as "Continuing Anglican" for convenience. It's popular to look at a list like this and shake one's head, but the reality is much less daunting if the details are known.

I wouldn't expect any less from Wikipedia, as it's not the most reliable source for info., IMO. But I see your point about the truth being less daunting, once the details are understood. (Not that I'm claiming to grasp all the details. )

And there are even more churches around that have the word "Anglican" or "Episcopal" in their names--because the words aren't patented. You'll get sued if you start a church named the Independent Christian Science church, but anyone who buys vestments can call his church "Episcopal" or "Anglican."

I shouldn't be surprised by this news by now.... Guess it's a good thing that I've zero intention of starting a church anytime soon.

 

[Hungarus]

Old Catholics are essentially Roman Catholics except that they do not accept the idea of Papal Infallibility, which the Roman Church introduced in the 1870s.

There is a greater theological difference between the RCC and the OCC. The OC churches accept only the seven Ecumenical Councils of the first millenium and their dogmas as real Ecumenical Councils and real dogmas, in contrast to the RC point of view.

And the OC churches are episcopal-synodal communities.

 

[Albion]

There is a greater theological difference between the RCC and the OCC. The OC churches accept only the seven Ecumenical Councils of the first millenium and their dogmas as real Ecumenical Councils and real dogmas, in contrast to the RC point of view.

And the OC churches are episcopal-synodal communities.

Yes, but I'm certain that it takes a person who's really into the fine points of the differences (such as yourself) to be concerned with such issues. For most inquirers, it doesn't help very much.

 

[Soma Seer]

Yes, but I'm certain that it takes a person who's really into the fine points of the differences (such as yourself) to be concerned with such issues. For most inquirers, it doesn't help very much.

I'm willing to learn about any differences between the RCC and OCC--no matter how nitpicky or mundane they may appear to some people. True, the "biggie" differences are of more interest to me, but I'm willing to learn about the nitty-gritty differences, too.

 

[Albion]

I'm willing to learn about any differences between the RCC and OCC--no matter how nitpicky or mundane they may appear to some people. True, the "biggie" differences are of more interest to me, but I'm willing to learn about the nitty-gritty differences, too.

OK then, I may have spoken too soon, and Hungarus' points of difference from the RCC should be added to the earlier information, after all:

1) The Old Catholics don't have a Pope; and

2) they don't consider the councils conducted only for their own church to be "ecumenical" (and, therefore, infallible) as, for example, the Council of Nicaea is/was.

We could also add:

They are in intercommunion with the Anglican Communion.
They have far fewer members when compared to the RCC and many Protestant federations.
They do ordain women priests.
They have no churches in the USA (although there was someone on CF who said that there was a parish somewhere).

 

[Hungarus]

They do ordain women priests.
They have no churches in the USA (although there was someone on CF who said that there was a parish somewhere).

Not all OC churches ordain women priests.

The OC Union of Utecht has no member church in the USA, but the OC Union of Scranton has one, the Polish National Catholic Church (the PNCC - a former member church of the UoU - is the mother church of the UoS).

 

[Soma Seer]

The OC Union of Utecht has no member church in the USA, but the OC Union of Scranton has one, the Polish National Catholic Church (the PNCC - a former member church of the UoU - is the mother church of the UoS).

Every single Christian faith out there is split so many ways, it's hard to keep track of them--much less track them all down. Oy.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

The Episcopal Church is the US Anglican Communion affiliate. As an Episcopalian, I refer to myself as Anglican almost interchangeably. But there are American Anglicans who call themselves that to distinguish themselves from TEC, so that can tricky if they're involved... but only then.