Anger and the Prophetic Temperament

[talitha]

In my experience a lot use the prophetic to indulge in their angry, selfish carnal nature.

While that is true, again that is not what I was talking about.

What I would like to talk about at some point here is how we can use not our prophetic liberty as an occasion to the flesh...... for me, and from my point of view, accountability within the Body of Christ is at least part of the answer.

I see what you are saying, New_Wineskin, but I don't agree. I would tend to say - if you cannot be accountable to a human authority, whom you can see, how can you be accountable to God, whom you cannot see? In fact, since the Bible is clear that we need to submit to one another, particularly to those set in authority over us, we are not submitting to God if we are not submitting to them.

I really thought your perspective on denominations was enlightening, thanks for sharing that, but in terms of the prophetic, the "problem children" I see are those who have shaken the dust of the "church" off of their feet and stand outside its doors shaking their fingers. Websites galore attest to this. They have set themselves up as little popes and they expect that because of their "prophetic insight" they should be held as infallible.

 

[JEBrady]

Outside of that , my main reason for thinking that the idea is humorous is that it essentially means that people will not hold themselves acountable to the Lord but would hold themselves accountable to humans . If they were holding themselves accountable to the Lord , what need would they have for human accountability ? If they are ignoring the Lord , they would ignore humans as well . That is , unless , the human groups is the *real* lord for the individual . This is why I look at the doctrine as a means of control to have the group usurp the Spirit's Lordship and Jesus' being the one mediator between the individual and the Father .

I can confirm that. I was present at the start of a men’s ministry similar to PK, that planned to have various chosen leaders as mentors/accountability partners for men troubled by various “manly” sins. The Lord spoke to me and said, “if they won’t listen to Me they won’t listen to man”. What you said here is true.

 

[JEBrady]

This came up in another thread, and I'm going to start with quoting from the other thread.....


Can we discuss this?

Your posted quotes don't come up, but with respect to what you describe, it sounds like Jim Jones on the way to Guyana, not a true prophet.

My first pastor is a true prophet. He is the greatest encourager I have ever known. I wouldn't accept any word from someone who claimed to be a prophet and was so obviously full of themselves. Go get a logectomy, then come back with a humble spirit. Anytime someone starts talking about righteous indignation, I run. Flesh is on the way. I've experienced true righteous indignation and it ain't the same as what everyone else likes to think. It comes from a heart of love, not a heart of offense. I have yet to see someone who claims to be righteously angry on a regular basis that isn't really just self-righteous.

I agree with Jim M. on this.

I've also seen true warning and judgment pronounced by a true prophet, and frankly, it was terrifying. By the way, it resulted in repentance and restoration of a leader. One of the dangers for someone with this calling is, of course, being puffed up as though he were really something because of the calling. Prophets are no different than anyone else. We all have flesh to deal with.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I see what you are saying, New_Wineskin, but I don't agree. I would tend to say - if you cannot be accountable to a human authority, whom you can see, how can you be accountable to God, whom you cannot see? In fact, since the Bible is clear that we need to submit to one another, particularly to those set in authority over us, we are not submitting to God if we are not submitting to them.

I really thought your perspective on denominations was enlightening, thanks for sharing that, but in terms of the prophetic, the "problem children" I see are those who have shaken the dust of the "church" off of their feet and stand outside its doors shaking their fingers. Websites galore attest to this. They have set themselves up as little popes and they expect that because of their "prophetic insight" they should be held as infallible.

Okie dokie . I can hande disagreement . I appreciate how you read my post and looked for something to think about . Your civilized response when disagreeing is a welcomed example of how to discuss/debate without needing to get negative towards the person to whom you are responding .

It does appear that we differ on our observations . I don't equate equal submission to accountability . And , I usually see groups having the leaders having the most leeway in holding others acountable while not submitting to others . This is a major reason why I don't agree that prophets should be under pastors . Also , the two times that the list of "apostle , prophet , teacher ... etc , "prophets" is listed second to apostles and not after teachers which is how many want to look at the heirarchy ( I disagree that there are any different levels of believers but that is beside the point ) . I have seen with my own eyes how leaders have slandered and put out those that brought up incorrect behavior . It is this type of behavior that I see from those recognized as "prophets" in this angry attitude concept of the thread . I have seen these people used as KGB for the leaders . "Animal Farm" comes to mind .

I ramble ... I am only repeating myself . Thanks , again , for inviting my participation .

 

[talitha]

I've experienced true righteous indignation and it ain't the same as what everyone else likes to think. It comes from a heart of love, not a heart of offense. I have yet to see someone who claims to be righteously angry on a regular basis that isn't really just self-righteous.

I agree with Jim M. on this.

Me too! Great post, bro!

Wow, thanks for the compliments, New_Wineskin. I have learned that it is necessary for us to put love before opinion, and I'm glad that came through.....

It appears to me that the words "accountability" and "shepherd" have certain connotations with certain people that I do not know much about - I was not really ever around the movements that used these words that people seem to have been hurt by. I'm very blessed to be in a wonderful church fellowship where the Holy Spirit moves and the apostle/pastor is a deeply humble and mercy-motivated person and yet a man whose leadership is recognized by other pastors and parachurch ministers all over our area. Ideally..... I think that prophets and pastors should both be submitted to apostolic leadership, but there is so little of that around, at least from what I've observed in American protestant churches. My pastor is truly a called apostle, and he knows it, but he does not use that title but rather the more socially-accepted "pastor" (actually he prefers to be simply called Harvey ). Anyway, I recognized his authority when I met him and decided to start attending his church and put myself under his authority. In the absence of apostolic leadership, I would prefer a pastor to step in rather than a prophet, because "mercy triumphs over judgment"....

blessings on you both, and all around
tal