Anger and the Prophetic Temperament

[talitha]

This came up in another thread, and I'm going to start with quoting from the other thread.....

I get angry...... I think it's typical of prophetically motivated people. I'm not talking about sinning in anger, I'm talking about emotions, which are not good or bad.

Are you using "prophetic gifting" as an excuse for bad manners and rudeness? One of the kindest and most gentle men I have ever met is a prophet.

No, I thought I made it clear in the portion you quoted that I'm not talking about sinning in anger - there's a difference between feeling angry and acting rudely.

Ephesians 4:26 tells us to "BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN" - so it must be possible to do that. The Greek word translated "sin" literally means to "miss the mark", so this could be translated, "Be angry, and yet do not allow your anger to miss its mark." We need to be angry at the right things - we do not battle against flesh and blood, but we DO battle.

I'm often around other prophetic people, and behind closed doors we often talk about the need for self-control. I have found that when prophetic people are not submitted within the Body of Christ, when they are just out there loose with no accountability, they very often lose balance and self-control and become ill-tempered. Their aim ceases to be true, and they are the first ones to shoot the wounded - particularly to shoot wounded pastors. On the opposite end, I find that prophets who stay in proper relationship in the Body are often some of the kindest, gentlest, most loving and peaceful people, exhibiting the character of God - just like you said.

Can we discuss this?

 

[New_Wineskin]

This came up in another thread, and I'm going to start with quoting from the other thread.....

Quote

Originally Posted by: talitha

I get angry...... I think it's typical of prophetically motivated people. I'm not talking about sinning in anger, I'm talking about emotions, which are not good or bad.

Can we discuss this?

Without getting too involved , I will say that I have a prophetic gifting ( perhaps a few giftings in the area depending on one's view of giftings ) . From my observations on "prophetic utterances" , I wuld agree that it is typical - but not because of the Lord's leading . Most of the utterances that I have heard have been the group's doctrines spewed out because they have become so exited by those doctrines that they confused the emotions with the Lord's leading . I find it typical that they look at themselves as "sin police" ( in a different manner than the other sin police ) and this brings anger more easily and often . The times that have broken my heart were when they were right on target for the most part but then turned the message from the Lord into a sermon from their own doctrines at the end - effectively doing the opposite that the message was meant to do .

So , with respect to anger being typical of those given prophetic giftings and that anger being caused by the Spirit withing them ... I don't agree that it is typical . It certainly happens . But , I don't see most anger that happens in this respect as from the Lord .

 

[talitha]

Again, I am NOT saying that this sort of angry BEHAVIOR is of God. Please understand where I'm drawing the line. I completely agree with you about these things:

....utterances that I have heard have been the group's doctrines spewed out because they have become so exited by those doctrines that they confused the emotions with the Lord's leading..... they look at themselves as "sin police"....

I appreciate your comments on the first two quotes. Would you please read the last part and comment on that?

thanks
tal

 

[BenAdam]

I think it may behoove us to define what prophetic really means first.

 

[janny108]

I think it may behoove us to define what prophetic really means first.

Good point, because I think there are personalities that are more likely to be condusive to the prophetic personality. /There is a good book about gifts, maybe you all know other good books about the gifts and likely personality types. The book I have is Discover Your God given gifts by Don and Katie Fortune.
Jan

 

[BenAdam]

Good point, because I think there are personalities that are more likely to be condusive to the prophetic personality. /There is a good book about gifts, maybe you all know other good books about the gifts and likely personality types. The book I have is Discover Your God given gifts by Don and Katie Fortune.
Jan

I think there are too many people that think themselves prophetic when they are really "sin police" or exhorters, or give a word of knowledge, etc. IMHO I believe the Prophet is one that stands in agreement with God and speaks as a witness to what God shows him.

 

[J4Jesus]

-----------------------------I'm often around other prophetic people, and behind closed doors we often talk about the need for self-control. I have found that when prophetic people are not submitted within the Body of Christ, when they are just out there loose with no accountability, they very often lose balance and self-control and become ill-tempered. Their aim ceases to be true, and they are the first ones to shoot the wounded - particularly to shoot wounded pastors. ------------.

I have noticed this also and its very unfortunate. The church has concentrated on only teacher, pastor, evangelist, and neglected the other 2 of the 5 fold minstry of apostle and prophet. I had personally been very hurt by a few I highly respected, and now tend to avoid involvement in much of it. When they are not mature and really acting in the flesh thinking it is their "calling" to say and do hateful things, it turns the church off from accepting these gifts of apostle and prophet. We all need to follow the Spirit and develop the fruit of the Spirit in our lives, no matter what the calling, and with them it is the same way. Our calling, which is our position in the body of Christ and gifts, has nothing to do with our character and being like Jesus because we all have to grow in that area.

First of all, they or anyone being separate from a body or group of believers and being a lone ranger will sooner or later get away from the truth and balance of God's Word into error , and also grow colder. Living the Word of God is our safeguard. We are all only parts of the body and the hand cant work without the wrist, the feet cannot be useful without the leg etc. The gifts and calling of God are without repentance, but its by their fruit we shall know them. Some may start out right but end up wrong. Its all through the Bible.

 

[psalms 91]

I totally agree, prophets speak Gods words and thats all they are to speak and sometimes those words are not kind as a matter of fact if a prophets words are kind most of the time I would get away from him.

 

[J4Jesus]

Just becuase a person is used in the prophetic or prophecies does not mean they are called to the office of Prophet, because the Word says all may prophesy. I think its true many do consider themselves "sin police". They are to speak what God tells them thats true. But alot of it is not from God but fleshly, condemntation and judgemental. What they say is "discernment" is really suspicion.

Another problem is they are trying to operate in this New Testment time like in the Old Testament, but their function is not the same today . Back then God talked only to the Prophet not the people, and then the prophet spoke God's word to the people. Today God speaks to us all. So when they go around saying God said you have to to do this and that and your every move, trying to lead you by his prophecy, that is out of order. Thats why they need to be connected with a fellowship who tests the prophecy. Now those who are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God, not those who are led by the prophets or prophecy. Most think how dare you not accept what I say but if they dont want you to test it, something is wrong,. I have noticed most I knew think they are always right and everyone else is always wrong and if you dont do what they say you are cursed. They has the mistaken idea they are only below God equal to Apostles, and over every other leadership position and members in the church

The Word of God at times is for correction but not constantly like some are doing: it is for edification and sometimes what is to come also. When they are always calling people a (>@=#+& - and all that , it is fleshly and not of God.

This is been my experience and I am not saying all are like this. But in all the knownand unkonwn camps and fellowships of the prophetic , most I have known are like this. I do want to say again, these postions are legitimate in the church today but they need leadership to equip them to flow in their calling and mature in character.

 

[BenAdam]

I totally agree, prophets speak Gods words and thats all they are to speak and sometimes those words are not kind as a matter of fact if a prophets words are kind most of the time I would get away from him.

what do you mean kind Bill? God has kind words to say as well as harsh. I would look for the Spirit in what is being said.

 

[JimB]

Every one gets angry, not just prophets. Sometimes it may bven be righteous indignation. Jesus was angry three (some say four) times in the Gospels, but never once was it for personal reasons. He was angry on those occasions because of the way people were treated (in particular in superior attitudes toward children and disabled people, and toward demons).

But there is no justification for anger when our person or our personal cherished beliefs are violated, as is the case in this forum. To stand for Truth (as it is found in Jesus Christ) and to stand for doctrinal conformity are two different things. And there is no justification for someone who has anger issues to claim having a “prophetic temperament.”

The most dominant characteristics of Jesus, who is THE Prophet, was His gentleness, compassion, meekness, humility, love and grace, not His anger.

Furthermore, anger is not listed among the fruit of the Spirit and, IMO, prophets are not exempted from the fruit. In fact, anger is listed among the actions of the flesh (contentions, outbursts of wrath, dissensions). Check it out yourself in Galatians 5.

Sure there are things that should anger us, prophets or otherwise, but we have to be very discerning about it.

~Jim

 

[psalms 91]

what do you mean kind Bill? God has kind words to say as well as harsh. I would look for the Spirit in what is being said.

I agree that God does have kind things to say but usually when a priophet is involved it is not a good thing. There are many kind words spoken over certain churchs and sometimes people but God will try to speak to you first, once a prophet is involved it usually isnt the feel good message that people think of. Look at the prophets in the bible, what were their messages usually? A prophet is to say exactly what is spoklen to him by the Holy Spirit and no more. No thoughts, ideas or opinions. You do not try to interpret what God has spoken even though many would like you to

 

[BenAdam]

I agree that God does have kind things to say but usually when a priophet is involved it is not a good thing. There are many kind words spoken over certain churchs and sometimes people but God will try to speak to you first, once a prophet is involved it usually isnt the feel good message that people think of. Look at the prophets in the bible, what were their messages usually? A prophet is to say exactly what is spoklen to him by the Holy Spirit and no more. No thoughts, ideas or opinions. You do not try to interpret what God has spoken even though many would like you to

ah I see, i'm in agreement!!!

 

[talitha]

I think it may behoove us to define what prophetic really means first. I think there are too many people that think themselves prophetic when they are really "sin police" or exhorters, or give a word of knowledge, etc. IMHO I believe the Prophet is one that stands in agreement with God and speaks as a witness to what God shows him.

Just becuase a person is used in the prophetic or prophecies does not mean they are called to the office of Prophet, because the Word says all may prophesy.

I quite agree. When I talk about the "prophetic temperament" there is a lot behind what I'm saying, and I should really explain a little.... I believe that the graces that are spoken of in Romans 12 have to do with our God-given personalities. Each person has one of them, and the fact that a person might have a prophetically-motivated personality does not mean that person is a "prophet" - although I believe it is possible that he or she could develop into one through a life of humility and obedience to God.....

this bears repeating:

I do want to say again, these postions are legitimate in the church today but they need leadership to equip them to flow in their calling and mature in character.

As for you, Jim M, you continue to misunderstand what I'm saying. Anger is an emotion, not evil in and of itself. The scripture in Galatians that you reference does not actually list anger among the "actions of the flesh", but some of the works on the list are the results of misdirected anger. I have not said that prophets are exempt from the fruit; on the contrary, I have spoken of the necessity of the prophetic person's maintaining self-control. I'm not sure why you are arguing against me, when we clearly agree.

Bill - you said that "usually when a priophet is involved it is not a good thing" - but scripture says that when we prophesy it is for edification, exhortation, and comfort. Some of that might not feel warm and cozy, but it is in fact "a good thing" that God has in His heart for each person. It's not His will that any should perish.

I do agree with this, though:

A prophet is to say exactly what is spoklen to him by the Holy Spirit and no more. No thoughts, ideas or opinions. You do not try to interpret what God has spoken even though many would like you to

It's the Holy Spirit's job to comfort - and while I may like to help Him in that, my timing in terms of Kingdom purposes is usually off. He may use me to comfort the afflicted, but He may also use me to afflict the comfortable...... it's happened - recently - and I can't afford to let my human sympathies get in the way.

Nor can I allow my human tendency to let others offend me get in my way. There's a difference between anger and offense.......

 

[jeolmstead]

Prophecy is one of the gifts I seem to operate in. IMO the essence of prophecy is “Forth” telling as opposed to “Fore” telling. It is having and speaking forth the word of the Lord as He directs.

Frankly, I can’t think of a time when the word God gave me was anything other then edifying. This doesn’t mean that God won’t tell us to change direction. He does it however in a loving positive way. Our Father surely can give a stern word, but, He loves His children. This (IMO) should be evident in the word that comes forth.

I have known people who have attempted to justify their on poor behavior and bad interpersonal skills on their supposed prophetic gift. They may have the gift but, the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet.

John O.

 

[talitha]

I have known people who have attempted to justify their on poor behavior and bad interpersonal skills on their supposed prophetic gift. They may have the gift but, the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet.

Amen!

 

[JEBrady]

They may have the gift but, the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet.

John O.

+1
And that pretty much sums it up.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Again, I am NOT saying that this sort of angry BEHAVIOR is of God. Please understand where I'm drawing the line. I completely agree with you about these things:



I appreciate your comments on the first two quotes. Would you please read the last part and comment on that?

thanks
tal

Ok .

I'm often around other prophetic people, and behind closed doors we often talk about the need for self-control. I have found that when prophetic people are not submitted within the Body of Christ, when they are just out there loose with no accountability, they very often lose balance and self-control and become ill-tempered. Their aim ceases to be true, and they are the first ones to shoot the wounded - particularly to shoot wounded pastors. On the opposite end, I find that prophets who stay in proper relationship in the Body are often some of the kindest, gentlest, most loving and peaceful people, exhibiting the character of God - just like you said.

Well , we come from different points of observation . But , that's ok .

I consider the whole "accountability" doctrine to be controlling and hypocritical and not even based in a knowledge of reality . The whole denominational concept is based on not being accountable . They remain seperate so as not to allow any other group tell them what to do . A good example is the Catholic scandal and no other group can come in to actually deal with the situation . To come from that idea for the groups' existance and then expect the individual's in the groups to allow others to hold them accountable is quite an amazing concept to me .

Outside of that , my main reason for thinking that the idea is humorous is that it essentially means that people will not hold themselves acountable to the Lord but would hold themselves accountable to humans . If they were holding themselves accountable to the Lord , what need would they have for human accountability ? If they are ignoring the Lord , they would ignore humans as well . That is , unless , the human groups is the *real* lord for the individual . This is why I look at the doctrine as a means of control to have the group usurp the Spirit's Lordship and Jesus' being the one mediator between the individual and the Father .

I didn't mean to get that involved in the "accountability" doctrine . But , I see this doctrine as being the reason for those having a problem with "they very often lose balance and self-control and become ill-tempered" and not those who are not under that doctrine . Because of the accountability issue , they are more in tune with the doctrines of the group and will allow "infractions" of others to infect ( deliberate ) their "words" . This accountability doctrine also helps to *foster* the "sin police" . When one considers that they have the right and power to come up to anyone in the group to keep them in line because of mutual acountability , more opportunities arise to exercise this right . These people may not shoot the leaders ( because the accountability doctrine somehow bypasses these people due to the ) but they sure do shoot everyone else .

 

[KingZzub]

I think a lot of charismatics use the idea of being prophetic as a pathetic excuse to indulge their angry, selfish carnal nature.

 

[J4Jesus]

I think a lot of charismatics use the idea of being prophetic as a pathetic excuse to indulge their angry, selfish carnal nature.

You're winking but I'm not.
In my experience a lot use the prophetic to indulge in their angry, selfish carnal nature.