Angels?

[Hoonbaba]

Hi guys,

I was one this site:

http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ103.HTM

And I came across number 140, which says:

140. Most Protestants deny that angels can intercede for us, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Rev 1:4; 5:8; 8:3-4).

I don't see how any of those verses have anything to do with angels interceding.

Anyone care to share about this?

-Jason

 

[Chili]

Rev.1:4, these are the prevailing spirits of the churches and are a result of angelic forces. They are identified here as major handicaps to overcome.

Rev.5:8, these refer to the prevailing spirits of our virtues (as the sins of our forefathers will follow us so will their virtues). The four living creature is an expression of "I, we four" to indicate that paradise is regained on earth and the 24 elders are our own twelve apostles with their negative stands created from the rout between the Cardinal Virues and the capital sins. So then the aromatic spices are the prayers of our own ancestors--wherefore salvation is not a matter of choice but Gods response to our inner determination.

Rev.8:3-4, the censer of gold and large amounts of incence just means that if much is given much is required. Remember here that gold was at one time sought while in pursuit of happiness (Gen.2:12) to quench the pain of alienation and now here in Rev. when paradise is regained the beauty of gold is in our ability to walk away from it.

The above passages are evidence in retrospect of angels at work and do not speak of angels at work towards salvation. You are correct in this.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Originally posted by Chili
Rev.1:4, these are the prevailing spirits of the churches and are a result of angelic forces. They are identified here as major handicaps to overcome.

Rev.5:8, these refer to the prevailing spirits of our virtues (as the sins of our forefathers will follow us so will their virtues). The four living creature is an expression of "I, we four" to indicate that paradise is regained on earth and the 24 elders are our own twelve apostles with their negative stands created from the rout between the Cardinal Virues and the capital sins. So then the aromatic spices are the prayers of our own ancestors--wherefore salvation is not a matter of choice but Gods response to our inner determination.

Rev.8:3-4, the censer of gold and large amounts of incence just means that if much is given much is required. Remember here that gold was at one time sought while in pursuit of happiness (Gen.2:12) to quench the pain of alienation and now here in Rev. when paradise is regained the beauty of gold is in our ability to walk away from it.

The above passages are evidence in retrospect of angels at work and do not speak of angels at work towards salvation. You are correct in this.

Uhm.......huh??

I don't know what you're trying to say...

-Jason

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by Hoonbaba


Uhm.......huh??

I don't know what you're trying to say...

-Jason

It kind of means that it will be difficult to criticize the Cathechism if you don't understand the bible.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Originally posted by Chili


It kind of means that it will be difficult to criticize the Cathechism if you don't understand the bible.

What does the Catechism have to do with any of this?

-Jason

 

[Wolseley]

I understand what the writer was trying to convey; I also think that two of his references require a bit of stretching.

Rev 1:4 describes seven spirits before the throne of God; the writer is making the assertion that these seven spirits are angelic, and that the reason why they are in front of the throne is to offer to God the requests of God's people---i.e., they are interceeding for God's people. It's a bit of a stretch, but taking the verse in context with everything else the Church teaches about intercession of saints and angels, you could come up with that interpretation. It's not a verse that I personally would use as a proof-text for this particular doctrine, but okay.

Rev 5:8 describes twenty-four elders in front of Christ, each holding a golden bowl full of incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones. The assertions here are that the elders are angelic (or possibly saints), and that the holy ones whose prayers they are offering to Christ are Christians on earth. This one is a little more closer to home as being a text I would use.

Finally we have Rev 8:3-4, which describes an angel offering incense and prayers of the holy ones, which ascend to God from the angel's hand. Again, if we understand that the "holy ones " mean the Christians on earth, then the prayers being offered by those Christians are being presented by the angel. This is the proof-text I would use if I were explaining the doctrine of the intercession of saints and angels.

Does this help?