Androgynous disorders?

[shaivealist]

Hi all, I apologize if this has been asked before but I just discovered it today and I'm really, really curious for an answer.

Today I met a girl with an unusual disorder. I can't exactly remember the name of it but the word "androgynous" was in there somewhere, I think. Basically, she has a vagina but no breasts, uterus, or ovaries. Inside of the vagina she has testicles. Other than the vagina she is exactly like a male in every way: her hormones, secondary sex characteristics, everything. So I was wondering what a Christian perspective on this disorder is. She is sexually attracted to women but since she has testicles I am not sure if that could be considered "homosexual." She herself has thought about becoming a nun (she's Roman Catholic) but also wants to adopt children and have a family. She looks, dresses, and refers to herself as a man, and I would not have known her to be a woman except for the context I met her in. In fact, I'm not even sure if I should call her a woman, since there's only one thing that makes her "not" a man... So Christians and others, what are your thoughts on the moral situation she's in?

Anybody here who knows more about this disorder, please post what you know as well. Thanks in advance for the answers.

 

[loriersea]

I am curious to see what people who believe that God has made strict boundaries between the sexes that we all most obey make of the many intersexed or ambiguously gendered individuals who are born each year.

 

[invisible trousers]

Sounds like androgen insensitivity syndrome? There are others here who know more about that than I do so maybe they could elaborate.

In before:

* Burn her at the stake
* Her existence is immoral
* God is calling her to be celibate
* She needs to repent

Personally I don't see any moral issues here.

 

[seebs]

Hi all, I apologize if this has been asked before but I just discovered it today and I'm really, really curious for an answer.

Today I met a girl with an unusual disorder. I can't exactly remember the name of it but the word "androgynous" was in there somewhere, I think. Basically, she has a vagina but no breasts, uterus, or ovaries. Inside of the vagina she has testicles. Other than the vagina she is exactly like a male in every way: her hormones, secondary sex characteristics, everything. So I was wondering what a Christian perspective on this disorder is. She is sexually attracted to women but since she has testicles I am not sure if that could be considered "homosexual." She herself has thought about becoming a nun (she's Roman Catholic) but also wants to adopt children and have a family. She looks, dresses, and refers to herself as a man, and I would not have known her to be a woman except for the context I met her in. In fact, I'm not even sure if I should call her a woman, since there's only one thing that makes her "not" a man... So Christians and others, what are your thoughts on the moral situation she's in?

Anybody here who knows more about this disorder, please post what you know as well. Thanks in advance for the answers.

This is a fairly well-known disorder. It's called androgen insensitivity. "She" has XY chromosomes and is biologically male, but doesn't react to masculine hormones in the usual way.

The trait itself is X-linked, so a male who has it has it completely and comes out apparently female. A female who has it can have it express in some areas but not others. Ovaries formed with this trait are infertile, but some women with the gene for this on one X chromosome have at least one fertile ovary that can generate fertile eggs, which can then create more kids with it. Women with two copies of the gene are completely infertile.

Typically, XY-chromosome people with this are "more girly" than regular girls. Obviously, she'll be infertile.

The chances are she self-identifies as female. I'd treat her exactly the same way I'd treat a post-op MtF transsexual, which is to say, as an infertile woman. So, for instance, I would advocate social policies making it easy for her to adopt, if she wants kids.

 

[wblastyn]

Burn her at the stake!

*Doh! In too late!

 

[reina23]

Why exactly do you refer to her as a her? I didn't catch why. I am confused as to why since:

She looks, dresses, and refers to herself as a man, and I would not have known her to be a woman except for the context I met her in.

 

[seebs]

Oh, I missed that part.

The question of what gender to use is hard, in cases like this. Typically, XY androgen-insensitive people self-identify as female, but some self-identify as male. Ironically, this is almost certainly a result of the same quirk that makes some XX-chromosome people self-identify as male!

 

[shaivealist]

Why exactly do you refer to her as a her?

I can't figure that out myself. I guess it's because she told me that she thought of herself as a girl until her parents told her about her disorder when she was entering her teens. I don't know, it just comes naturally for me to do so...

 

[shaivealist]

This is a fairly well-known disorder. It's called androgen insensitivity. "She" has XY chromosomes and is biologically male, but doesn't react to masculine hormones in the usual way.

The trait itself is X-linked, so a male who has it has it completely and comes out apparently female. A female who has it can have it express in some areas but not others. Ovaries formed with this trait are infertile, but some women with the gene for this on one X chromosome have at least one fertile ovary that can generate fertile eggs, which can then create more kids with it. Women with two copies of the gene are completely infertile.

Typically, XY-chromosome people with this are "more girly" than regular girls. Obviously, she'll be infertile.

The chances are she self-identifies as female. I'd treat her exactly the same way I'd treat a post-op MtF transsexual, which is to say, as an infertile woman. So, for instance, I would advocate social policies making it easy for her to adopt, if she wants kids.

She identifies completely as a man... in fact as the post above pointed out, it is weird that I even call her "her" since she is a man in every way except for having a vagina... as I said, she is attracted to girls very intensely and imagines herself married to a woman. She also looks like your average teenage boy.

 

[Ananel]

Such a figure is unmentioned in biblical accounts. In my view, marriage is perfectly acceptable, as is love for the person and assistance in their process of self-identification. I don't see either gender as unavailable (well, I wouldn't anyway, but that's beside the point). Genetically, this is a 'he,' though in terms of biological structures 'he' bears marked similarities to a 'she.' I think the person's self-identification is more important in this case, and see the passage "it is not good for the man to be alone" and others to indicate that permanent marital union is perfectly appropriate.

I would counsel no hanky-panky before marriage, however, despite my own weaknesses in this regard.

 

[seebs]

I can't figure that out myself. I guess it's because she told me that she thought of herself as a girl until her parents told her about her disorder when she was entering her teens. I don't know, it just comes naturally for me to do so...

Oh, boy.

That may indicate that she's going to be one of those people whose gender identity is complicated by expectations.

Normally, people with androgen insensitivity have exaggerated female traits (big hips, big breasts). If {she/he} doesn't, that may indicate hormone therapy.

Anyway, here's my thinking: That life will be hard enough on its own. People shouldn't make it harder. If {he/she} picks a gender, or can't decide, or whatever, just be supportive and recognize that this is not an easy situation to deal with. People with weird biology need friends who will treat them decently.

 

[Superpants]

i tend to agree with ananel. this seems to be a compassionate christian response. i'll throw in a twist though: what if this individual identifies as a man at some points in its life (and it dates women) and identifies as a woman at other points in its life (and dates men). is this acceptable, or must this individual make a choice, and stick by that choice (regardless of what this individual feels in the future)?