And there was evening and there was morning

[Hawkins]

Genesis one tells a story of creation that is divided into six days of creative activity and then a seventh day of rest is mentioned. Each of the six days uses a formula to mark its end. The formula uses the words "And the evening and the morning were the [ordinal day number here] day." The seventh day is not closed with the formula.

Some see in this formula evidence that the days were much as days are now. Around 24 hours long, as seen from any one place on Earth. Do you think that is a good way to interpret the formula?

It basically says humans such as one like you, don't know what time actually is. That's why it is symbolically mentioned as "and the evening and the morning" instead of actual scale of time. As Einstein put, time is not even a stable physics unit instead speed/velocity is!

 

[bbbbbbb]

It basically says humans such as one like you, don't know what time actually is. That's why it is symbolically mentioned as "and the evening and the morning" instead of actual scale of time. As Einstein put, time is not even a stable physics unit instead speed/velocity is!

There have been numerous changes in physics since Einstein, some of which are really interesting and challenging.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

As Einstein put, time is not even a stable physics unit instead speed/velocity is!

Speed is distance moved per unit of time. It is a time thing - this speed thing. Maybe you'd do better with distance instead of speed.

 

[RDKirk]

If Genesis had said "evening to evening" or "morning to morning," that would designate a 24-hour day.

But "evening to morning" is not a literal 24-hour day in anyone's book...not even in the Bible. it's referencing some other kind of period.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

If Genesis had said "evening to evening" or "morning to morning," that would designate a 24-hour day.

But "evening to morning" is not a literal 24-hour day in anyone's book...not even in the Bible. it's referencing some other kind of period.

I wonder ...
Perhaps "and there was evening and there was morning a <ordinal day number here>" is an idiom meaning "The work of the day is done and night has come and gone, a new day of work has arrived". Jesus, our Lord, did say "We must work the works of him who sent me, while it is day; night comes, when no one can work." (John 9:4)

 

[Adventist Dissident]

There is a book that was published over 20 years ago as I recall. The title is as I recall “The Science of God”. It hit me as true because of the honesty of God. Time is extremely relative. Rather than try to explain the premise of that book, perhaps you could read a summation or the entire book. It was written by a PhD in physics from MIT. As I recall he ended up being a professor at a University in Israel.

That is Gerald Schroder

 

[Adventist Dissident]

If Genesis had said "evening to evening" or "morning to morning," that would designate a 24-hour day.

But "evening to morning" is not a literal 24-hour day in anyone's book...not even in the Bible. it's referencing some other kind of period.

source this, what is this based on? when it speaks of "evening & morning" in other places, such as the temple sacrifice and the prophecy of Daniel it refers to literal days.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I tend not to take Genesis too literally in a modernist sense. Lest we also believe in a flat earth with a solid dome over it.

As others have noted, there was no sun the first few days, a concept which matches Egyptian creation stories. The earth wasn't viewed as a globe in a heliocentric universe. Rather the dry land was limited in lateral distance and flat.
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The scripture never says the earth is flat.


this is the current attack on the Bible. It is based on the Atheist view that all religion is man made. It assumes that point. so Genesis is automatically a man made religion and cannot be of divine origins, therefore it has to be the same as the religions in the same region., they believed the earth was flat so naturally the Scripture say the same thing. There is nothing unique about it and not scientific in the minds of the Atheist.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Until 18th century, Genesis was considered literal history, don't know why people started to lean away from it. I guess man started to trust scientist more than God. If you look at the Hebrew language it is quite clear the days were 24 hours long (Hebrew word Yom means a solar day of 24 hours).

Why else would God command a sabbath day which is literal 24 hours?

it is part of the atheist attack on the bible

 

[Job 33:6]

The scripture never says the earth is flat.


this is the current attack on the Bible. It is based on the Atheist view that all religion is man made. It assumes that point. so Genesis is automatically a man made religion and cannot be of divine origins, therefore it has to be the same as the religions in the same region., they believed the earth was flat so naturally the Scripture say the same thing. There is nothing unique about it and not scientific in the minds of the Atheist.

It's not an attack on the Bible, it's just a fact of history that ancient cultures believed in a flat earth with a solid dome over it. Some people don't believe what the Bible says, and that's for them to workout. But we can't change historical fact just because we don't like how it sounds.

Let's look at some more verses on the raqia
And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 NRS

God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8 NASB199

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years
Genesis 1:14 NRSV

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened
Genesis 7:11 NRSV

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained
Genesis 8:2 NRSV

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20 NRS

And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring
Genesis 28:12‭-‬13 NRSV

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10 NRSV

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror
Job 37:18 NRS

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass
Job 37:18 KJV

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze
Job 37:18 NIV

It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22 NRSV

Over the heads of the living creatures there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads
Ezekiel 1:22 NRSV

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form
Ezekiel 1:26 NRS

Then I looked, and above the dome that was over the heads of the cherubim there appeared above them something like a sapphire, in form resembling a throne
Ezekiel 10:1 NRSV

When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth
Proverbs 8:27‭-‬29 NASB1995

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14 NRSV

 

[Adventist Dissident]

It's not an attack on the Bible, it's just a fact of history that ancient cultures believed in a flat earth with a solid dome over it. Some people don't believe what the Bible says, and that's for them to workout. But we can't change historical fact just because we don't like how it sounds.

Let's look at some more verses on the raqia
And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 NRS

God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8 NASB199

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years
Genesis 1:14 NRSV

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened
Genesis 7:11 NRSV

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained
Genesis 8:2 NRSV

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20 NRS

And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring
Genesis 28:12‭-‬13 NRSV

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10 NRSV

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror
Job 37:18 NRS

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass
Job 37:18 KJV

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze
Job 37:18 NIV

It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22 NRSV

Over the heads of the living creatures there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads
Ezekiel 1:22 NRSV

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form
Ezekiel 1:26 NRS

Then I looked, and above the dome that was over the heads of the cherubim there appeared above them something like a sapphire, in form resembling a throne
Ezekiel 10:1 NRSV

When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth
Proverbs 8:27‭-‬29 NASB1995

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14 NRSV
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are you willfully misquoting me?

the attack is to conflate the bible and the culture together and say they are the same. I do not assume that that is a fact.

the bibles you qut NasB ,NRSV,NRS reflect this. this is circular logic.

 

[Job 33:6]

are you willfully misquoting me?

the attack is to conflate the bible and the culture together and say they are the same. I do not assume that that is a fact.

the bibles you qut NasB ,NRSV,NRS reflect this. this is circular logic.

Scripture does say that there is a solid structure over the land holding up a celestial ocean. I don't think there is any conflating going on, it just is what it is.

Many Christians are uncomfortable with what the Bible says, but just because it's uncomfortable, this doesn't give us the right to change history or what the verses state.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Scripture does say that there is a solid structure over the land holding up a celestial ocean. I don't think there is any conflating going on, it just is what it is.

Many Christians are uncomfortable with what the Bible says, but just because it's uncomfortable, this doesn't give us the right to change history or what the verses state.

no it does not say that it is interpretated as saying that.

dome is not firmament it is an atmosphere. that an interpretation, it dose not say that

circle is not disk. it dose not say that.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

the circle of the earth, that looks like a circle to me. anybody else see a circle

 

[Adventist Dissident]

all the Ancestor had to do was look up at the moon and the sun and the could conclude the earth was round. you must think they were stupid.

 

[prodromos]

It's not an attack on the Bible, it's just a fact of history that ancient cultures believed in a flat earth with a solid dome over it. Some people don't believe what the Bible says, and that's for them to workout. But we can't change historical fact just because we don't like how it sounds

Many ancient cultures did not move beyond the land they were settled in, so their view of the world was extremely narrow. What about the great seafaring cultures like the Polynesians? What was their view of the earth?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Many ancient cultures did not move beyond the land they were settled in, so their view of the world was extremely narrow. What about the great seafaring cultures like the Polynesians? What was their view of the earth?

valid point.

 

[Job 33:6]

no it does not say that it is interpretated as saying that.

dome is not firmament it is an atmosphere. that an interpretation, it dose not say that

circle is not disk. it dose not say that.

And how exactly would a gaseous atmosphere contains windows which open and close to let water through? Otherwise translated as flood gates which release water? Also, how could the raqia be an atmosphere if God set the stars within the atmosphere as per Genesis 1:14? Are there stars in our atmosphere? Of course not.

The passage you're referring to describes the circle of being inscribed by a compass, this compass is similar to something that people use in grade school when they put a pencil in one side and there's a point on the other side and you draw a circle with it.

And this is exactly what was used to make ancient Mesopotamian maps of creation in which the circle of creation was inscribed. And it's not talking about the Earth, it's talking about the raqia that rests above the earth

 

[Job 33:6]

Many ancient cultures did not move beyond the land they were settled in, so their view of the world was extremely narrow. What about the great seafaring cultures like the Polynesians? What was their view of the earth?

Yes absolutely. I wonder if Paul Seelys paper on the raqia discussed polynesians. He does describe other asiatic cultures that also believed in a solid dome.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes absolutely. I wonder if Paul Seelys paper on the raqia discussed polynesians. He does describe other asiatic cultures that also believed in a solid dome.

According to Paul Seely, I'll post screenshots of his paper the firmament and the waters above. It looks like he does describe melanasians and their beliefs:

Melanesians are the predominant and indigenous inhabitants of Melanesia, in a wide area from the eastern of Indonesia (East Nusa Tenggara, Maluku Islands, Western New Guinea), Papua New Guinea to as far east as the islands of Vanuatu and Fiji. - from wiki

This paper is published in Westminster Theological Journal and is free for download if you Google it.