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And Then There Were Two (Candle Sticks)

Barraco

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Thanks.

HOUSE OF EPHRAIM

It's interesting what you say bout the house of Ephraim and the apostasy, because (for reasons that would take long to explain) I believe that the house of Ephraim is the Gentiles in Christ and Paul prophesied both of an apostasy and a worthless shepherd in 2 Thess 2:4.

TEMPLE OF GOD BEING DEFILED

I know that most people believe that the naos (sanctuary of God) mentioned in 2 Thess 2:4 is a physical rebuilt temple in Jerusalem

- but that word naos (sanctuary of God) stops being used in reference to the Jerusalem temple in the verses in the gospels that talk about the tearing of the veil in that sanctuary when Jesus died on the cross.

It's not used in reference to the Jerusalem temple after that.

The word used for the temple complex in Jerusalem is hieron.

Inside the hieron was the naos (sanctuary of God/Holy Place):

ἱερόν hierón (hee-er-on'): [Strongs Greek Dictionary] 02411 (English: Temple):
neuter of 2413; a sacred place, i.e. the entire precincts, whereas 3485 [naós] denotes the central sanctuary itself (of the Temple in Jerusalem, or elsewhere).

Not surprisingly every time we read about Jesus going into the temple, the word used is hieron because Jesus was not a priest under Mosaic law and was not allowed to enter the naos.

The multiple times that the temple in Jerusalem is mentioned after the death and resurrection of Jesus (mainly in Acts) only the word hieron is used, and the words "hagios topos" (holy place) are used for when the Jews accused Paul of defiling "this holy place"

- but not the word naos.

The only times Acts uses the word naos in reference to the sanctuary of God is where Luke wrote:

Acts 7:48a
But, the Most High does not dwell in a temple sanctuary (Greek: naos) made with (human) hands.

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of Heaven and earth, does not dwell in temple sanctuaries (Greek naos) made with (human) hands.

(Once in the entire New Testament, naos is used for a pagan sanctuary - the shrine of Diana - also in Acts).

The one time Paul was talking about the temple in Jerusalem in his letters, the word hieron is used

- but every time Paul speaks about the bodies of individual believers or of the church and calls it the temple of God, the word naos is used.

Paul used the word naos in 2 Thess 2:4, not the word hieron.

-- the church & the temple in heaven --​

(word used: naós)

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21:21; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 7:15; Revelation 11:19; Revelation 14:15 & Revelation 14:17; Revelation 15:5-6 & Revelation 15:8; Revelation 16:1 & Revelation 16:17; Revelation 21:22

2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 11:1-2.

HOLY CITY

Notice how Revelation 11:19 uses the word naos for sanctuary (temple) of God but Revelation 11:1-2 also uses the same word - but
Revelation 11:2 is talking about the holy city - and there are no verses in the Revelation where the other cities mentioned in the Revelation are called "the holy city"

("Babylon the Great", or the city "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt", or the cities of the nations which fell when the 7th bowl of wrath was poured out),

but the Revelation calls New Jerusalem "the holy city" three times:

Revelation 21:2; Revelation 21:10; and Revelation 22:19.

So I find it very interesting that you mention that the House of Ephraim will go into apostasy - but the House of Ephraim is not referring to the Jews in Christ, IMO, but to the Gentiles in Christ, and the worthless shepherd IMO is the man of sin of 2 Thess 2:4.

PS: I'm a Gentile Christian. Not Jewish. I'm speaking objectively. Not with prejudice.

I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility for it to refer to an actual temple. The Jews can build a tabernacle overnight and resume sacrifices there. The location is the pivotal part though. The Temple Mount is where the tabernacle will need to be. The Two Witnesses prophecy for 1,260 days in the temple while the rest of the city is besieged and attacked by the beast. During this time, they are in a spiritual wilderness and God provides for them. I believe we are very, very close to this happening.

It’s interesting you say that about Ephraim. I kinda agree. Rev 11 says the holy city will be trampled underfoot for 42 months, which is the same amount of time the mouth of the beast has authority and power to make war.
 
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tailgator

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I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility for it to refer to an actual temple. The Jews can build a tabernacle overnight and resume sacrifices there. The location is the pivotal part though. The Temple Mount is where the tabernacle will need to be. The Two Witnesses prophecy for 1,260 days in the temple while the rest of the city is besieged and attacked by the beast. During this time, they are in a spiritual wilderness and God provides for them. I believe we are very, very close to this happening.

It’s interesting you say that about Ephraim. I kinda agree. Rev 11 says the holy city will be trampled underfoot for 42 months, which is the same amount of time the mouth of the beast has authority and power to make war.
The city of jerusalem.is not under attack during the 1260 days.It is attacked after the two witnesses have accomplished 1260 days.Then Jerusalem is attacked and the two witnesses are killed.

During the 1260 days,the two witnesses army is occupying Jerusalem and receiving fire commands from the two witnessss.
 
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Barraco

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The city of jerusalem.is not under attack during the 1260 days.It is attacked after the two witnesses have accomplished 1260 days.Then Jerusalem is attacked and the two witnesses are killed.

During the 1260 days,the two witnesses army is occupying Jerusalem and receiving fire commands from the two witnessss.

That’s not how Revelation 11 puts it though.

“Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
 
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tailgator

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That’s not how Revelation 11 puts it though.

“Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


The armed forces occupying Jerusalem at that time is given to the Israeli government by the man of sin.Their biggest ally.

The two witnesses are working for the man of sin.They fall away.
The two witnesses are killed in Daniel 1140 when these armed forces are attacked at the time of the end
They are raised from the dead in Daniel 12:2 when many are raised


Daniel 11:31-39

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
 
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tailgator

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That’s not how Revelation 11 puts it though.

“Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Revelation 11
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


They are giving fire commands to the king of the norths armed forces in Jerusalem.


Fire commands are oral orders issued by leaders to focus and distribute fires as required achieving decisive effects against the enemy. They allow leaders to rapidly and concisely articulate their firing instructions using a standard format (Refer to TC 3-20.31-4 for more information).
 
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tailgator

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The attack upon Jerusalem by the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit and the ten kings takes place here when the two witnesses are killed.

Revelation 11
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


The Hadith instructs Muslims to attack dajjals army after a three year drought .This attack in Rev 11:7 comes after a three year drought caused by the two witnesses and their accompanying army.
 
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Truth7t7

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The plagues which the armed forces under the two witnesses smite the earth with is not the plagues of the angels.

It's not the same thing.
We disagree, all vial plagues seen in Revelation will be at the hand of the two witnesses brought upon this earth, the angels are in the spiritual, the two witnesses are on this physical earth

Revelation 11:6KJV
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:4KJV
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
 
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Truth7t7

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Revelation 11
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


They are giving fire commands to the king of the norths armed forces in Jerusalem.


Fire commands are oral orders issued by leaders to focus and distribute fires as required achieving decisive effects against the enemy. They allow leaders to rapidly and concisely articulate their firing instructions using a standard format (Refer to TC 3-20.31-4 for more information).
Fire from their mouth means the two witnesses command fire in their words spoken, just as Elijah called fire from heaven in his spoken words

Your suggestion that it means world leaders causing fires is false IMHO
 
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tailgator

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We disagree, all vial plagues seen in Revelation will be at the hand of the two witnesses brought upon this earth

Revelation 11:6KJV
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:4KJV
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
You believe the two witnesses are going to cause the implantable microchips in people to crack open causing a sore?
 
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tailgator

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Fire from their mouth means the two witnesses command fire in their words spoken

Your suggestion that it means world leaders causing fires is false IMHO
No,it's just a military command.
70 percent of the man of sins armed forces claim to be Christian with many of them evangelical christians.
They are deployed to Israel to protect Israel.

The man of sin said the other day he will cause Israel to be with us for thousands of years.
He has also said he is the only one who can keep Israel safe.
 
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Truth7t7

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You believe the two witnesses are going to cause the implantable microchips in people to crack open causing a sore?
I Disagree, I don't believe the mark is a microchip, this is your speculation and assumption, and the beast and false prophet demand this not the "Two Witnesses" as you suggest, they represent "God" on this earth
 
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tailgator

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I Disagree, I don't believe the mark is a microchip, this is your speculation and assumption, and the beast and false prophet demand this not the "Two Witnesses" as you suggest, they represent "God" on this earth
The beast openly said a couple years ago that he wants everyone in Israel to receive implantable microchips .

He only confirmed what I already believed.
 
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Truth7t7

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The two witnesses will give fire commands and fire will come down from heaven.

Revelation 13
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
The two witnesses will bring the vial plagues upon the beast and his kingdom

Your suggestion that the two witnesses are the beast is false
 
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Truth7t7

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The beast openly said a couple years ago that he wants everyone in Israel to receive implantable microchips .

He only confirmed what I already believed.
"Who is the beast" that said a couple years ago, please give a name or identity?
 
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tailgator

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The two witnesses will bring the vial plagues upon the beast and his kingdom

Your suggestion that the two witnesses are the beast is false
The two witnesses are the horns of the second beast which came out of the earth

They bomb Muslims for 1260 days untill the confederation of Muslim states under Iran kills them and takes Jerusalem.

The woman will have to flee from.israel during the 1260 days as not to take the mark of the beast from the sea given by the two witnessss.
 
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tailgator

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"Who is the beast" that said a couple years ago, please give a name or identity?
Perhaps you should have been paying attention to the king of Babylon.The beast from the sea.You would have seen it yourself.
 
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Truth7t7

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The two witnesses are the horns of the second beast which came out of the earth
Your claims are false

The "Two Witnesses" are God's prophets returned, they represent God Almighty on earth during the tribulation, bringing all plagues in God's judgement

The beast with the two horns is the "False Prophet" that works to promote the beast/antichrist
 
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