And by His scourging we are healed.

[Extirpated Wildlife]

Ok.
Isa 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Jesus was wounded for our transgressions, our rebellion against the law of God.
Jesus was bruised for our iniquities, our wicked acts.
Jesus was chastised so to bring spiritual safety to us.
And by his stripes we were healed, spiritually.

 

[ZiSunka]

Amen!

And because by faith we have the approval of God, we have peace with God (Romans 5:1), so we can have emotional healing as well!

 

[Andrew]

emotional healing for those who believe thus far only.

emotional, spiritual and physical healing for those who leave it in context, an dont limit God.

I've posted this b4 but i'll post it again -- not for those who have already settled it in their heart to be against physical healing -- but for those who are searching for healing (spiritual and physical) and want to learn...

The literal truth about Isaiah 53:3-5

Besides our sins, Jesus also bore our sicknesses and pains on the cross. He was also whipped 39 times on His back (till His flesh was torn and His bones exposed) to buy us healing.

Isaiah 53:4,5
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs [sicknesses], and carried our sorrows [pains]: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

The original Hebrew words for "griefs" and "sorrows" are actually "sicknesses" and "pains" (physical and mental) respectively (see Strong's numbers 02483 and 04341). The translation is thus unfortunate.

Some have insisted that Isaiah 53:4 has to do with spiritual healing only. But let the Bible interpret the Bible. The verses are quoted again in Matthew 8:17 and 1 Peter 2:24. How does the Holy Spirit translate Isaiah 53:4 in Matthew 8:15? He says, "Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses", implying physical healing.

Matthew 8:15-17
15 And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Moreover, the immediate context of Matthew 8:17 (verses 15 and 16) proves that the verse is referring to physical healing. This is not to say that spiritual healing is excluded as demons were cast out too,

Note also that the word "Surely" is used in Isaiah 53:4. It is as though God knew that Christians would not have difficulty believing that Jesus bore their sins, but would find it hard to believe that Jesus also bore their sicknesses and pains, hence, He added the word "Surely"! You don't find that "double assurance" in verse 5, which talks about Christ bearing and suffering for our sins.

 

[Extirpated Wildlife]

Thanks, Andrew.

If you don't mind me saying it like this, I was fishing for you.

This is what i would like to do is discuss this. This will take some time for me to go through your comments. I don't want to rush this.

I will certainly keep it to the manner as you gave. With scripture. I am certainly open to listening.

 

[Outspoken]

"physical healing for those who leave it in context, an dont limit God."

Not always Only if it is in his will.

 

[Andrew]

I will certainly keep it to the manner as you gave. With scripture. I am certainly open to listening.

I'm a little confused by your intentions. You said before WOFers are deceivers not worth the time. so why bother listening to what i have to say?

but since you have said you are open to listening, i'll just lay down the points -- i dont expect you to agree or anything.

btw: I have written a little more about the subject here. you might want to go thru it slowly first to see where I'm coming from

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/communion.html
[the part on healing]

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/thorn.html

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/chasten.html

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Outspoken
"physical healing for those who leave it in context, an dont limit God."

Not always Only if it is in his will.

Vernon McGee said "So many weak Christians are hiding behing 'it must not be His will' "

Jesus said over and over let it be done according to your faith. As a matter of fact he rebuked the disciples, because of there lack of faith. And He was truely amazed at the Roman soldiers strong faith.

The one time in the New Testiment where God didn't heal someone was in Paul. And we don't know for sure what his alment was, but we do know that Paul expected a healing and prayed over and over for it, untill he heard from God. But if you take that into context with the rest of the NT you will see a ratio of 1 million healed (over exagerating, but not by much) to 1 not healed.

 

Joyce Myers gave one of the best sermons I have ever heard on this matter, and it covered all prayer not just physical healings.

She gave the example of Jacob and what his name meant(swindler, deciever), and how he wrestled with God, to get God to bless him.  She went on with Jesus words, on Ask and keep on asking, knock and keep on knocking, Seek and keep on seeking. 

Alot of times you need to fight to get where you should be in Christ, for the violent take it by force. Every Christian has started to pray for something, and give up within minutes if not seconds. They ask but really there hearts are full of doubt, this is a weak Christian , which the bible says should not expect that he should recieve anything. Everyone has done this atleast one time in there life. I myself have done it many times, but on the other hand the times that I do decide to fight, and fight, and wrestle and kick and scream, and never give up, I have seen positive things happen!

This goes for all areas of your life, example if you don't like your relationship with your spouse, pray and keep praying and keep praying, just totally get all up in God's face with this problem untill you get what Christ has payed for you.

Man I could go on and on, and on in this direction. The Holy Spirit is just filling me with joy, and verses(I don't have my bible right here to right them all down).

 

[Outspoken]

"Vernon McGee said "So many weak Christians are hiding behing 'it must not be His will' ""

Yup, and the other extreme is so many wrong minded christians are telling God what to do, the problem is, they aren't God. I agree we should ask boldly, but be ready to receive a no.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Outspoken
"Vernon McGee said "So many weak Christians are hiding behing 'it must not be His will' ""

Yup, and the other extreme is so many wrong minded christians are telling God what to do, the problem is, they aren't God. I agree we should ask boldly, but be ready to receive a no.

This sounds like your admitting to a problem in the area of your faith? 

 

 

[Blindfaith]

It sounds to me as if some believe that only those with the right amount of faith will be healed.  Personally, I think that's a crock.

A very good friend of ours isn't expected to live past February if he's lucky.  He's 37, with cancer spreading rapidly, with a wife and 3 children under the age of 6.  He's the most faithful Christian I have ever known.  He's got more faith in his little finger than I do in my entire makeup.

Is his faith lacking therefore he's dying?  No.

Should a diabetic go off his/her penicillin if he/she has "enough" faith?  No.

God has a greater plan and purpose than any of us could ever fathom or understand.  If the death of this wonderful friend of ours fulfills His plan/purpose, who am I to question it?  It doesn't mean I have to like it, but I have to come to terms with it.  It certainly does not mean he has a limited amount of faith because he's not being healed.

 

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by blindfaith
It sounds to me as if some believe that only those with the right amount of faith will be healed.  Personally, I think that's a crock.

A very good friend of ours isn't expected to live past February if he's lucky.  He's 37, with cancer spreading rapidly, with a wife and 3 children under the age of 6.  He's the most faithful Christian I have ever known.  He's got more faith in his little finger than I do in my entire makeup.

Is his faith lacking therefore he's dying?  No.

Should a diabetic go off his/her penicillin if he/she has "enough" faith?  No.

God has a greater plan and purpose than any of us could ever fathom or understand.  If the death of this wonderful friend of ours fulfills His plan/purpose, who am I to question it?  It doesn't mean I have to like it, but I have to come to terms with it.  It certainly does not mean he has a limited amount of faith because he's not being healed.

 

Have you ever told someone about Jesus, and they looked at you like your crazy? Well its the same thing here, I am  a Christian brother with many testimonys of answered prayers, and almost everyone on them consisted of me and sometimes others to pray over and over to get the proper results. I am telling you the bible is true, and prayer is one awesome weapon that God has given us to use. Now you can go on believing that its God's will for that family man to die, or you can wake up and smell what the devil has been telling you. Think about it? Does your friend leaving a family behind sound like God? I am not saying it is or isn't, but I know one thing, if he was my friend I hope I would be there to pray for him off and on all day long when ever I could.

Tell me something, how many times did Jesus say over and over and over, "let it be done according to your faith" ? Now you are not telling me or any other human being that are beliefs are a crock, your telling it to God and His word, just like all the nonbelievers out there that say, the bible is just something written by man.

 

[Andrew]

The one time in the New Testiment where God didn't heal someone was in Paul.

Sunstone, you'll be glad to know that it's already settled that Paul's thorn was not/cannot be any sickness:

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/thorn.html

 

[Blindfaith]

Sunstone, thank you so much for your compassion and understanding ~ you truly have a heart of mercy and gentleness.  I hope that one day, when another fellow believer is hurting, I'll be able to comfort and love them up as you have done for me.  What's the saying?  Christians are known for shooting their wounded? 

Also, I wanted to thank you for asking me first, before implying, whether or not I, and many others have been praying for this man.  In fact, if you're really interested, and believe that those who have enough faith (such as yourself) can heal, you can read the thread I posted for Kraig here http://www.christianforums.com/threads/28333.html

Being that you've been involved in many healings because of prayer, yours would be most certainly welcomed.  Also, if you'd be so kind, pray for his wife and 3 small children.

Just in case you're interested (because I feel I have to defend myself here), I prayed more times than not yesterday.  That's why I was on this forum for a very limited amount of time (as if I need to explain).  I prayed, I cried, I prayed some more, I called everyone I could think of for them to step up their prayers, I begged, pleaded, petitioned God for His Mercy and Saving Grace.  If God wants Kraig healed, He'll heal him.  Nothings impossible for the Lord.  If he doesn't choose to, He won't.  I'm not God, and I don't make those decisions for Him. 

 

your telling it to God and His word, just like all the nonbelievers out there that say, the bible is just something written by man.

I'm going to say this as nicely and gently as I possibly can.  Don't ever, ever, group me in with nonbelievers who don't believe that the Bible is the written Word of God.  Ever.

~Peace in Christ

 

[MizDoulos]

Please Note:&nbsp&nbspWhile we all have our own viewpoints on certain issues of the Bible, it is futile to argue over them nor is it edifying. My suggestion is to take a step back and cool off for awhile before resuming the discussion. Also, a review of the forum rules wouldn't hurt.

Thank you for your cooperation.


[noflame]Please take heed.[/noflame]

 

[Andrew]

If God wants Kraig healed, He'll heal him.Ê

"If" here is what's called the "badge of doubt". You cant be praying in faith if you are praying "if" prayers. That's not how God tells us to pray. He said believe you receive. If that is so, how can we still pray "if"? The two contradict each other. Either we believe we receive or we dont, God doesnt say tell us to believe in "if"s -- it cant be a 50-50 thing.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I had a headache the other night....

I hold that it is never His will that we have headaches. Headaches accomplish nothing. They do not bring us closer to God (Jesus brought us all the way to God... nothing we do or experience is going to bring us any closer). Headaches do not mature us or teach us anything, other than we do not want them.

I also who hold that when Jesus said that when I ask and believe, I receive. I do not think  He qualified it with "if you ask and believe, and it is my will, then you receive..".  If He had meant that, He was perfectly capable of saying that. It was understood that what we asked woud be His will. In fact in one place He even said:

Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye may ask what ye will, and it shall be done to you.

It is our will. We decide. We draw from His words that abide in us, and we ask out of the will that is defined by His words. He does not have any sick or pain or death words.

So when a headache or a toothache or any other pain or sickness creeps up.. what am I to do?

I have two choices...
1. I can say that Jesus did not mean what He said, and that it is all a lie..or:
2. I can let every man, pain, wound, and symptom be a liar. I can go by what He said and believe Him right in the face of evidence to the contrary. Even tho it really physically hurts, I can believe in my heart that the pain I am feeling is a lie, and that Jesus did what He said He would do. I can raise my hands and praise Him that I am healed, and that He has given me health. And in the end, if death itself were to creep up and threaten to overtake me, I can praise Him through it all... that He is true, and all darkness, and sickness, and suffering, and death are lies. In the end, He is true, and I pray I stand by Him and His Word in the midst of every contrary thing.  This, dear friend, is what faith is. It is believing Him regardless of what is thrown up at us.

 

[Andrew]

AMEN brother!

 

[Michie]

Hmmm.

I've seen alot of people lose faith & be overcome with guilt because they were ill.

These comments made by brothers & sisters in Christ.

Yes we are healed by His stripes but does that just mean physical healing?

Could it mean much, much more than just the healing of flesh?

There have been many of Christian that have not been healed & have went on to be with the Lord.

I think there is a very fine line when it comes to dealing with those that are ill.

God does heal & He can heal.

But remember the "Our Father" prayer that Jesus taught?

Not our will but His will be done.

And that is all I'm going to say about that.

Touchy subject.

 

[Outspoken]

"Sunstone, you'll be glad to know that it's already settled that Paul's thorn was not/cannot be any sickness:"

Nope, it wasn't

"Yes we are healed by His stripes but does that just mean physical healing?"

EXACTLY!!!  As a favorite song of mine says, Home free eventually, the ultimate healing is to be home free. That means we are only truely healed after we die and go home to the father and recieve our imperishable body.  When people ask for healing, sometimes that EXACTLY what God does. I can think of no greater thing, and I think that's EXACTLY what Paul is talking about when he says he would love to be with Christ, but stays only for others.

 

[Michie]

Ever move a literal mountain?

Why are there sick & persecuted Christians all over the world?

Is it your will or God's will?

I think there may be a problem with some of these views because they are looked at & thought of with the flesh.

So...when it comes to Christians that do not get healed, I do not look at it as some sort of hidden sin they have not confessed or lack of faith.

It is a matter of God's will.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree.