...And another Reasoned Case Against Impeachment

Halbhh · Dec 5, 2019

You have to admit, this just above in post #40 is accurate and meaningful:

"He praises dictators as strong leaders and befriends them."

It's not just appearances. It's consistent preference for dictators like Putin over non dictator heads of state.

@civilwarbuff

civilwarbuff · Dec 5, 2019

whatbogsends said:
Trump has spoken longingly about how he'd like to be President for life. He repeatedly "jokes" (they're not jokes) about serving more than 2 terms. He repeatedly shows disdain for the check and balances that are prescribed by the Constitution. He praises dictators as strong leaders and befriends them.

He is clearly an authoritarian who believes his powers as President are too confining as currently defined.

Does that keep you awake at night?

civilwarbuff · Dec 5, 2019

Halbhh said:
You have to admit, this just above in post #40 is accurate and meaningful:

"He praises dictators as strong leaders and befriends them."

It's not just appearances. It's consistent preference for dictators like Putin over non dictator heads of state.

@civilwarbuff

Just like other presidents have long done with other dictators and strongmen.....

civilwarbuff · Dec 5, 2019

Pamela Karlan
Jason Howerton on Twitter

GoldenBoy89 · Dec 5, 2019

civilwarbuff said:
What actions based on what substantiated evidence?.....as I have asked repeatedly on numerous thread....to no avail.....

Withholding military aid for a personal favor. The aid that was withheld and Trump’s “perfect” phone call where he straight out asks for a favor. Not to mention his blatant obstruction of Congress.

Halbhh · Dec 5, 2019

civilwarbuff said:
Just like other presidents have long done with other dictators and strongmen.....

I didn't say "negotiate" with.

I said he prefers dictators, by all appearances. He likes them. And he doesn't much like non dictators.

Over and over.

whatbogsends · Dec 5, 2019

civilwarbuff said:
Does that keep you awake at night?

Nice non-rebuttal.

GoldenBoy89 · Dec 5, 2019

civilwarbuff said:
So his parents thought he should be a prince?.

You’re the one making that inference. Should I consider you as “mocking” a dead man because you said it?

Seems a bit silly, don’t you think?

GoldenBoy89 · Dec 5, 2019

civilwarbuff said:
Pamela Karlan
Jason Howerton on Twitter

Can you summarize it? I don’t do twitter.

Yarddog · Dec 5, 2019

civilwarbuff said:
Which is mocking 13yo Barron Trump.

Incorrect. In order for her to have been mocking the boy, she would have had to have the intention of seeing Barron in a scornful manner, which was obviously not present to any logical individual. The scornful type of joke was aimed at "The Donald" for his acting like a monarchical leader.

Karlan said: "Contrary to what President Trump has said, Article 2 does not give him the power to do anything he wants. The Constitution says there can be no titles of nobility, so while the president can name his son Barron, he can't make him a baron."

Clearly, the context of her statement shows that her total intention was to mock the President and not his son. It was ill advised because she gave Republicans a narrative to discredit her testimony. But, they clearly show their hypocrisy by not confronting Trump when he mocks so many people on a regular basis.

civilwarbuff said:
Otherwise she would have explained it was about Donald and not apologized....can't have it both ways.

Her statement explained it was about Donald and that is quite easy to see if one actually reads her statement. Republicans want it both ways. You can't condemn a person for mocking when you are guilty of defending a serial mocker.

whatbogsends · Dec 5, 2019

Halbhh said:
I didn't say "negotiate" with.

I said he prefers dictators, by all appearances. He likes them. And he doesn't much like non dictators.

Over and over.

It's not even close how much he prefers dictators to democratic heads of state.

civilwarbuff · Dec 5, 2019

GoldenBoy89 said:
Withholding military aid for a personal favor. The aid that was withheld and Trump’s “perfect” phone call where he straight out asks for a favor. Not to mention his blatant obstruction of Congress.

And he connected the 2 how exactly? Sondland's own testimony indicated that the Ukrainian's were not aware that aid was being withheld or they were expected to start an investigation until Sondland told them on/about Sept 9.

civilwarbuff · Dec 5, 2019

Yarddog said:
Incorrect. In order for her to have been mocking the boy, she would have had to have the intention of seeing Barron in a scornful manner, which was obviously not present to any logical individual. The scornful type of joke was aimed at "The Donald" for his acting like a monarchical leader.

Karlan said: "Contrary to what President Trump has said, Article 2 does not give him the power to do anything he wants. The Constitution says there can be no titles of nobility, so while the president can name his son Barron, he can't make him a baron."

Clearly, the context of her statement shows that her total intention was to mock the President and not his son. It was ill advised because she gave Republicans a narrative to discredit her testimony. But, they clearly show their hypocrisy by not confronting Trump when he mocks so many people on a regular basis.

Spin it however you want but all the criticism she recieved says otherwise as well as her apologizing.

KCfromNC · Dec 5, 2019

GoldenBoy89 said:
Hmm.

Should bad jokes be the standard for all elected officials to vacate their office?

Is this where we are supposed to dig up all the "he was just joking" excuses after Donald, say, attacked a disabled reporter or suggested that 2nd amendment people could take care of things if Clinton was elected?

civilwarbuff · Dec 5, 2019

Halbhh said:
I didn't say "negotiate" with.

You are right, it was not a negotiation it was a surrender to the power of a strongman....Obama needed a favor from Putin to help Obama get relected.

Albion · Dec 5, 2019

Sparagmos said:
This is completely irrelevant to the question of impeachment.

Oh, that's right. The credibility of the witness ought not count for anything when we're talking about an impeachment of the president.

civilwarbuff · Dec 5, 2019

whatbogsends said:
Nice non-rebuttal.

Sorry, just my way of showing how seriously I took your post.

GoldenBoy89 · Dec 5, 2019

civilwarbuff said:
And he connected the 2 how exactly?

We’d all love to find out but the prime suspect keeps telling his cohorts to ignore congressional subpoenas to testify.

Sondland's own testimony indicated that the Ukrainian's were not aware that aid was being withheld or they were expected to start an investigation until Sondland told them on/about Sept 9.

Ah yes, the same witness that threw several of Trump’s closest associates under the bus saying they were all aware of what was happening and that there in fact was a quid pro quo with regards to investigations and the withheld aid and a requested Oval Office meeting. Yes, I remember him well.

GoldenBoy89 · Dec 5, 2019

Albion said:
Oh, that's right. The credibility of the witness ought not count for anything when we're talking about an impeachment of the president.

How does saying Trump is not a king ruin her credibility?

Yarddog · Dec 5, 2019

civilwarbuff said:
Spin it however you want but all the criticism she recieved says otherwise as well as her apologizing.

She was ill advised to have used the boy's name to make her point but just because right wing politicians and pundits want to cease on this and blow it out of proportion means little unless they are also doing the same to Donald Trump. Can you show us a single time where any of these right wingers have condemned Trump for his mocking of others?

...And another Reasoned Case Against Impeachment

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