An Interesting Question

[gwdboi]

Here is an interesting question for all anti-gay Christians:

Since there is no word in neither Greek nor Hebrew for the term "homosexual" (that is, homosexual in the sense that we think of it today being two people of the same gender in a loving, committed, emotional, and sexual relationship). In what way can it be condemned by the Bible if not even the concept existed in the literature? How can that which is not stated be condemned?

 

[PinkTulip]

Lots of things are not mentioned in the Bible but are still condemned - child porn, strip bars, gambling, drugs, etc. if you wanted to participate in one of these things,what would you do? Would you pray about it? How do you think God would answer this prayer?

 

[BAFRIEND]

Here is an interesting question for all anti-gay Christians:

Since there is no word in neither Greek nor Hebrew for the term "homosexual" (that is, homosexual in the sense that we think of it today being two people of the same gender in a loving, committed, emotional, and sexual relationship). In what way can it be condemned by the Bible if not even the concept existed in the literature? How can that which is not stated be condemned?

Conscience.
By the way homosexuality is viewed as an orientation... the "homosexual in the sense that we think of it today being two people of the same gender in a loving, committed, emotional, and sexual relationship" is what is called a gay lifestyle. Having a homosexual orientation in and of itself may not be sinful, but leading a gay lifestyle is.

 

[gwdboi]

Lots of things are not mentioned in the Bible but are still condemned - child porn, strip bars, gambling, drugs, etc. if you wanted to participate in one of these things,what would you do? Would you pray about it? How do you think God would answer this prayer?

ever heard of love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself??

(i.e. I do not believe that homosexuality would in any way violate the above statement)

 

[gwdboi]

Conscience.
By the way homosexuality is viewed as an orientation... the "homosexual in the sense that we think of it today being two people of the same gender in a loving, committed, emotional, and sexual relationship" is what is called a gay lifestyle. Having a homosexual orientation in and of itself may not be sinful, but leading a gay lifestyle is.

Thus, essentially what you are saying is that it is not right for one to be oneself.

 

[UberLutheran]

ever heard of love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself??

Which is probably the single most difficult thing Jesus ever asked of us — and if we actually did "love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, and mind; and love our neighbor as ourself" then most of the things we fight about on these boards would be moot.

I also have a favorite from St. Paul, which I found helpful to memorize:

Romans 1:28-39

28 We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who didn’t spare his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how would he not also with him freely give us all things? 33 Who could bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Could oppression, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Even as it is written, “For your sake we are killed all day long. We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” 37 No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Thus, essentially what you are saying is that it is not right for one to be oneself.

Jesus drew an ugly portrait of those who tried to win others over by painting a pretty picture. Jesus said the road would be narrow... Go back and read his teaching on divorce and tell me that he expects people to practice relativism.

Relativism= "I am gay and therefore it is okay".

 

[Der Alte]

Here is an interesting question for all anti-gay Christians:

Since there is no word in neither Greek nor Hebrew for the term "homosexual" (that is, homosexual in the sense that we think of it today being two people of the same gender in a loving, committed, emotional, and sexual relationship). In what way can it be condemned by the Bible if not even the concept existed in the literature? How can that which is not stated be condemned?

According to many GBLT-Я-us websites there was a Geek word for homosexual, it was supposedly "homophilia" So who is right you or all those gay websites?

Your argument is a logical fallacy, since according to you a word did not exist to describe something therefore it did not exist. Well, lets see. The words grandfather, cousin, niece, do not appear in the O.T. so I guess grandfathers did not exist. And while there is a lot said about planting, cultivating, and harvesting the words, farm or farming, never occurs in the O.T.

Lev 20:13 [size=+1]ואישׁ אשׁר ישׁכב את־זכר משׁכבי אשׁה[/size] [size=+1]תועבה עשׂו שׁניהם מות יומתו דמיהם בם׃[/size]

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

LXX [ca. 250 BC] Lev 20:13 [size=+1]και ος αν κοιμηθη μετα αρσενος κοιτην γυναικος, βδελυγμα εποιησαν αμφοτεροι θανατουσθωσαν, ενοχοι εισιν.[/size]

1Co 6:9 [ca. 90 AD] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [[size=+1]αρσενοκοιτης[/size]]​

God is omniscient and if he had wanted to make an exception for so-called loving homosexual relationships he would have clearly done so. But from the time of Moses, through the early church, to the present, the condemnation of homosexual activity, was TOTAL and ABSOLUTE, NO exceptions.

Previous Post: Irrefutable historical evidence from the Talmud and early church condemning homosexuality!

 

[PinkTulip]

ever heard of love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself??

(i.e. I do not believe that homosexuality would in any way violate the above statement)

Yes, but what does that mean? It means walking as Christ, obeying God's commands, and teaching others to do the same. It does not mean kill now repent later.

 

[PinkTulip]

Here is an interesting question for all anti-gay Christians:

Since there is no word in neither Greek nor Hebrew for the term "homosexual" (that is, homosexual in the sense that we think of it today being two people of the same gender in a loving, committed, emotional, and sexual relationship). In what way can it be condemned by the Bible if not even the concept existed in the literature? How can that which is not stated be condemned?

Just to explain something, people have been writing about homosexuality for ages. Both Plato and Aristotle wrote about. Plato actually said homosexual sex was unnatural. Nero married two men, so Paul would have KNOWN about it.

 

[gwdboi]

Jesus drew an ugly portrait of those who tried to win others over by painting a pretty picture. Jesus said the road would be narrow... Go back and read his teaching on divorce and tell me that he expects people to practice relativism.

Relativism= "I am gay and therefore it is okay".

Truth= I am gay and there is nothing I can do about it. Studies show that I was born gay, that is, there is a genetic factor in sexual orientation. God created me, God does not make mistakes. I was not made gay by accident but by the hand of God. God is not nor can He create sin thusly homosexuality is not a sin.

 

[gwdboi]

According to many GBLT-Я-us websites there was a Geek word for homosexual, it was supposedly "homophilia" So who is right you or all those gay websites?

Your argument is a logical fallacy, since according to you a word did not exist to describe something therefore it did not exist. Well, lets see. The words grandfather, cousin, niece, do not appear in the O.T. so I guess grandfathers did not exist. And while there is a lot said about planting, cultivating, and harvesting the words, farm or farming, never occurs in the O.T.

Lev 20:13 [SIZE=+1]ואישׁ אשׁר ישׁכב את־זכר משׁכבי אשׁה[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]תועבה עשׂו שׁניהם מות יומתו דמיהם בם׃[/SIZE]

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

LXX [ca. 250 BC] Lev 20:13 [SIZE=+1]και ος αν κοιμηθη μετα αρσενος κοιτην γυναικος, βδελυγμα εποιησαν αμφοτεροι θανατουσθωσαν, ενοχοι εισιν.[/SIZE]

1Co 6:9 [ca. 90 AD] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [[SIZE=+1]αρσενοκοιτης[/SIZE]]​

God is omniscient and if he had wanted to make an exception for so-called loving homosexual relationships he would have clearly done so. But from the time of Moses, through the early church, to the present, the condemnation of homosexual activity, was TOTAL and ABSOLUTE, NO exceptions.

Previous Post: Irrefutable historical evidence from the Talmud and early church condemning homosexuality!

Nice try. Lets take a literal look at the verses.

[FONT=&quot]Firstly this verse is a part of the Levitical holiness code that details what is prohibited for priests and what is considered ceremonially unclean. The actual word used is tow`ebah. When one looks at the usage of the word throughout the Bible one sees that tow`ebah generally refers to idolatry. It is not beyond the range of abstraction to theorize that since there was no word for homosexual in the ancient Hebrew that the concept of a loving same sex relationship was not thought of. Therefore, it is possible to say that the Hebrews probably thought that any same sex intercourse would have been purely based on lust thus making the other person of attraction an idol which is against the word of the Lord. Let me also point out that Leviticus states nothing against two women having sex.

NT Verses:

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now, the largest problem with these verses is the translation of the two Greek words: arsenokoitai and malakoi. Taking into mind the Greek mindset of sex the two words (arsenokoitai: arseno: man, koitai: bed, lying, or having sex with; malakoi: soft [as in the softness of a fabric or “soft” moral views]) the more likely translation of “homosexual” is actually “male prostitute.” The NIV even goes as far to translate the word as “homosexual offenders” in 1 Corinthians and “perverts” in 1 Timothy. Homosexual offenders and perverts do not even come close to referring to committed homosexual relationships.[/FONT]

 

[gwdboi]

Just to explain something, people have been writing about homosexuality for ages. Both Plato and Aristotle wrote about. Plato actually said homosexual sex was unnatural. Nero married two men, so Paul would have KNOWN about it.

I would like to see your source to which you refer when you say that Plato said that homosexuality is unnatural. Sources that I've read say the opposite.

Paul does not speak against loving homosexual relationships nor does he even speak against pederasty (which was commonly practiced in ancient Greece. [words: [FONT=&quot]erastes or older male in pederastical relationships; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]eromenos- the younger male]) Neither of the above words is ever found in the Bible. The two words that Paul uses are [/FONT][FONT=&quot]arsenokoitai and malakoi which more sensibly mean male prostitute or homosexual offender. Neither of which refer to a loving gay relationship. [/FONT]

 

[PinkTulip]

I would like to see your source to which you refer when you say that Plato said that homosexuality is unnatural. Sources that I've read say the opposite.

Paul does not speak against loving homosexual relationships nor does he even speak against pederasty (which was commonly practiced in ancient Greece. [words: [FONT=&quot]erastes or older male in pederastical relationships; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]eromenos- the younger male]) Neither of the above words is ever found in the Bible. The two words that Paul uses are [/FONT][FONT=&quot]arsenokoitai and malakoi which more sensibly mean male prostitute or homosexual offender. Neither of which refer to a loving gay relationship. [/FONT]

Read Plato's Laws. He says, "Same-sex love is Against Nature."

I haven't read them in years, and I am not about to read them today, so you will have to find the quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Con
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/laws.html

LGTB site that talks about it:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/index-anc.html

I found it: Book One of Plato's Law...he writes:

Whether such matters are to be regarded jestingly or seriously, I think that the pleasure is to be deemed natural which arises out of the intercourse between men and women; but that the intercourse of men with men, or of women with women, is contrary to nature, and that the bold attempt was originally due to unbridled lust. The Cretans are always accused of having invented the story of Ganymede and Zeus because they wanted to justify themselves in the enjoyment of unnatural pleasures by the practice of the god whom they believe to have been their lawgiver. Leaving the story, we may observe that any speculation about laws turns almost entirely on pleasure and pain, both in states and in individuals: these are two fountains which nature lets flow, and he who draws from them where and when, and as much as he ought, is happy; and this holds of men and animals-of individuals as well as states; and he who indulges in them ignorantly and at the wrong time, is the reverse of happy.

 

[Libre]

There has long been homosexuality, and homophobia. The semantics don't matter. The Levitical laws were to set Israel apart as God's people. He had His reasons for it. We are no longer under that code of law. And Gentiles never were. If we are the seed of Abraham in faith, then these things do not apply. IMO.

Libre

 

[gwdboi]

Read Plato's Laws. He says, "Same-sex love is Against Nature."

I haven't read them in years, and I am not about to read them today, so you will have to find the quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Con
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/laws.html

LGTB site that talks about it:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/index-anc.html

I found it: Book One of Plato's Law...he writes:

Whether such matters are to be regarded jestingly or seriously, I think that the pleasure is to be deemed natural which arises out of the intercourse between men and women; but that the intercourse of men with men, or of women with women, is contrary to nature, and that the bold attempt was originally due to unbridled lust. The Cretans are always accused of having invented the story of Ganymede and Zeus because they wanted to justify themselves in the enjoyment of unnatural pleasures by the practice of the god whom they believe to have been their lawgiver. Leaving the story, we may observe that any speculation about laws turns almost entirely on pleasure and pain, both in states and in individuals: these are two fountains which nature lets flow, and he who draws from them where and when, and as much as he ought, is happy; and this holds of men and animals-of individuals as well as states; and he who indulges in them ignorantly and at the wrong time, is the reverse of happy.

I stand corrected in terms of Plato's view, yet even so it proves nothing.

 

[Daza]

Read Plato's Laws. He says, "Same-sex love is Against Nature."

I haven't read them in years, and I am not about to read them today, so you will have to find the quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Con
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/laws.html

LGTB site that talks about it:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/index-anc.html

I found it: Book One of Plato's Law...he writes:

Whether such matters are to be regarded jestingly or seriously, I think that the pleasure is to be deemed natural which arises out of the intercourse between men and women; but that the intercourse of men with men, or of women with women, is contrary to nature, and that the bold attempt was originally due to unbridled lust. The Cretans are always accused of having invented the story of Ganymede and Zeus because they wanted to justify themselves in the enjoyment of unnatural pleasures by the practice of the god whom they believe to have been their lawgiver. Leaving the story, we may observe that any speculation about laws turns almost entirely on pleasure and pain, both in states and in individuals: these are two fountains which nature lets flow, and he who draws from them where and when, and as much as he ought, is happy; and this holds of men and animals-of individuals as well as states; and he who indulges in them ignorantly and at the wrong time, is the reverse of happy.

This was only towards the end of his life and runs against various prior teachings in his Symposium, in which he espouses the notion that societies benefit from homo-erotic love. Time for a re-read perhaps?

Daza

 

[gwdboi]

This was only towards the end of his life and runs against various prior teachings in his Symposium, in which he espouses the notion that societies benefit from homo-erotic love. Time for a re-read perhaps?

Daza

Thank you for the additional information

 

[Time4AChange]

Thus, essentially what you are saying is that it is not right for one to be oneself.

Not if you're going to be a Christian....do you realize that "one's self" is a sinner. Seeing as we were all born sinners, if we were to all "be ourselves", u think we'd please God?

All these questions that keep poppin up in this section are ALL answered in the Bible. All the threads being made, if ppl would just submit to the Word of God, they'd have their answers...The Bible states as Christians, we are servants of God, we're not own...we're bought with a price. It also says if ANY man be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are past away, behold all things become new. It also says "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless i live, YET NOT I, CHRIST LIVETH IN ME. <-----All those Scriptures, and many more prove that as Christians, the old us is dead...we are not our own anymore, we can't "be ourselves" (which is sinners) we be like Christ.

Therefore, if we're going to be born again Christians, we're not our own anymore....That concept of who in control is the root of this whole homosexual debate.

and Romans 1:27 says And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

How doesn't the Bible speak about homosexuality as you stated in your OP?

 

[Time4AChange]

Truth= I am gay and there is nothing I can do about it. Studies show that I was born gay, that is, there is a genetic factor in sexual orientation. God created me, God does not make mistakes. I was not made gay by accident but by the hand of God. God is not nor can He create sin thusly homosexuality is not a sin.

Using your logic right here, then u must believe that we are not born as sinners, right? And according to you, if we are all perfect...then what's the need for Jesus Christ? what's the need to repent?...i mean, after all we're perfect. According to your thinking, sin doesnt even exist....since we're not born as sinners.