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An in depth look at The Ten Commandments

Leaf473

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I'm not now asking you a question. I asked you a question in post 35, which I later realized you answered in post 36.

Who decides what is metaphorical and what is not? The Holy Spirit.

The other questions in your post sound rhetorical to me. But if there is something you want me to respond to, please let me know.

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you!
 
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daq

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Who decides what is metaphorical and what is not? The Holy Spirit.

So the Holy Spirit told you that the Mark 9 passage, (already quoted), is metaphorical? We also have companion passages, such as Matthew 5:29-30 and Matthew 18:8-9, (and indeed, nowhere are we informed by the authors whether these things are intended to be allegorical-metaphorical or physically-literal).

Here is the problem I have with what you say: you've now basically said, (probably without realizing it), that Gehenna, (a.k.a. Hell), is metaphorical, but somehow I doubt that you also believe that to be the case.

Is Gehenna or Hell just a metaphor? I suspect that this is exactly what I already strongly suggested to be the case: the mind flip-flopping back and forth between physically literal and allegorical or metaphorical interpretations in order to pave the way for what the mind perceives to be in its own best interest in whatever doctrine is being held, upheld, or rejected, (and we all do this until we start to realize what we are doing, and are forced to retrain ourselves not to do it anymore: and it is a serious struggle to stop doing this).

However the flip-flopping is absolutely impossible in the Mark passage I quoted without turning the whole passage into utter ridiculousness.

Mark 9:43-49 KJV
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: [metaphorical!] it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, [metaphorical!] than having two hands to go into hell, [literal!] into the fire that never shall be quenched: [literal!]
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [literal!]
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: [metaphorical!] it is better for thee to enter halt into life, [metaphorical!] than having two feet to be cast into hell, [literal!] into the fire that never shall be quenched: [literal!]
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [literal!]
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: [metaphorical!] it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God [literal!] with one eye, [metaphorical!] than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: [literal!]
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [literal!]
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, [metaphorical!] and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. [literal!]

flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop ...
 
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Leaf473

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But then who decides what the Holy Spirit intends?
That the Holy Spirit has the ability to communicate with us is a matter of faith imo.

There can be disputes over whether the Spirit communicates with individuals or the Church as a whole.

Does that answer your question?
 
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Leaf473

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The Holy Spirit did not speak to me directly, no. But I do believe the Spirit guides me in a significant way.
_____________
About metaphors

Consider the statement:
Richard had the heart of a lion.
That's a metaphor. But saying it's a metaphor isn't saying that there are no literal lions.

Does that answer your question?
 
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daq

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Mark 9:43-49 KJV
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Leviticus 2:13 LXX (Brenton)
13 And every gift of your sacrifice shall be seasoned with salt; omit not the salt of the covenant of the Lord from your sacrifices: on every gift of yours ye shall offer salt to the Lord your God.

Romans 8:4-8 KJV
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Peter 2:5 KJV
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Romans 12:1-2 KJV
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 
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Akita Suggagaki

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That the Holy Spirit has the ability to communicate with us is a matter of faith imo.

There can be disputes over whether the Spirit communicates with individuals or the Church as a whole.

Does that answer your question?
It still leaves it all as individual faith.
 
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Leaf473

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It still leaves it all as individual faith.
If the Holy Spirit speaks to and guides the Church as a whole, then it wouldn't be an individual faith imo... Unless I'm not understanding what you're saying.

But I agree that each individual has the choice to believe in / have faith in one of these ideas:

The Spirit speaks to each individual, usually as they read the Bible,

The Spirit speaks to the church as a whole,

The Spirit doesn't really speak to or guide us today in any significant way. Kind of a bummer, but I think that's how a lot of Christians live today.

I'm not sure of the OP's views on the above as it relates to the ten commandments. Looks like he started the thread and left. Which is fine, of course.

Peace be with you, my friend!
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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If the Holy Spirit speaks to and guides the Church as a whole, then it wouldn't be an individual faith imo... Unless I'm not understanding what you're saying.
What I meant was it is then up to the individual believer to discern which church is best guided by the Holy Spirit.
 
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Leaf473

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What I meant was it is then up to the individual believer to discern which church is best guided by the Holy Spirit.
Well, here's how I see it:

There's only one church, one body. It is made up of all those who believe that Jesus is the Christ/Messiah, that he died for their sins and came back to life again.

Jesus said he would build a church, that it is the light of the world. That to me sounds like the church as a whole cannot fall into error.

I think it's a fascinating topic. If we want to talk about it much more, I recommend we move to a different section.

The Lord bless you and keep you.
 
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