The way I see it...that's the basis of a dysfunctional relationship which can be and sometimes is played out as it reaches to family and friends who do not hold to the correct One True Way beliefs.
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The way I see it...that's the basis of a dysfunctional relationship which can be and sometimes is played out as it reaches to family and friends who do not hold to the correct One True Way beliefs.As you suggested previously,[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] people go to hell on their own, yet they don't go to heaven on their own. [/FONT]
I think many people are just engaged in strawman attacks against what they don't want to understand or what they reject. There's nothing really unfair about the Protestant view of salvation, since none deserve eternal life.
It's not unfair at all. It is God's free choice and he is not obligated at all (nobody would say it is unfair that a person gives something freely to one person, and not to another, if there is no obligation to do so). Protestants do not believe God gives people heaven because they demonstrate a capability to do something. In fact traditional Protestantism asserts that we are unable to do anything in our own power that is meritorious of eternal reward.
Well, see, that's just it.It's not unfair at all. It is God's free choice and he is not obligated at all (nobody would say it is unfair that a person gives something freely to one person, and not to another, if there is no obligation to do so). Protestants do not believe God gives people heaven because they demonstrate a capability to do something. In fact traditional Protestantism asserts that we are unable to do anything in our own power that is meritorious of eternal reward.
Well, see, that's just it.
If we are unable to do anything within our own power to gain heaven, then how can it be said that we are actively choosing hell, heaven's opposite? There's a difference between being outright unable to accomplish something and merely choosing not to accomplish it.
In other words, if one destination is merited, then, logically, the other must be merited. Likewise, if one destination is earned, then, logically, the other must be earned.
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They go to Hell on their own accord.
All of us, by nature, choose hell every day: open a newspaper and look at the greed in the world, at the violence, at the self-centeredness, and we all fall short of loving God and loving our neighbor. Therefore, we do not deserve heaven.
Basically, your talking about the Fall. Who made that up? I think that we are rising and that we are not fallen. Believing that they are fallen just keeps everyone in their place. I think we need to pull out of that kind of thinking and re-frame who we actually are as human beings...that we are a people rising, and not a fallen people. The evolution of human beings is to push up or to rise to the next level of consciousness.All of us, by nature, choose hell every day: open a newspaper and look at the greed in the world, at the violence, at the self-centeredness, and we all fall short of loving God and loving our neighbor. Therefore, we do not deserve heaven. God shows mercy on whom he will show mercy, ...
Basically, your talking about the Fall. Who made that up? I think that we are rising and that we are not fallen. Believing that they are fallen just keeps everyone in their place. I think we need to pull out of that kind of thinking and re-frame who we actually are as human beings...that we are a people rising, and not a fallen people. The evolution of human beings is to push up or to rise to the next level of consciousness.
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Even the wickedest deed you could ever imagine is nothing compared to the sheer horror of a concept like eternal torment.All of us, by nature, choose hell every day: open a newspaper and look at the greed in the world, at the violence, at the self-centeredness, and we all fall short of loving God and loving our neighbor. Therefore, we do not deserve heaven. God shows mercy on whom he will show mercy, but the idea that it is unfair for any of us to be punished for our sin that we ourselves choose trivializes the evils in the world.
Frankly, if there's any hell, it's located right between one's own two ears. It's a state of mind rather than a place.This only works if you assume that our beliefs must have no areas of mystery or the unexplained. I, as a Christian, do not pretend to understand all things perfectly. But we do not believe that God sends people to Hell against their will. People choose that. This does not contradict the belief that heaven is a gift.
All of us, by nature, choose hell every day: open a newspaper and look at the greed in the world, at the violence, at the self-centeredness, and we all fall short of loving God and loving our neighbor. Therefore, we do not deserve heaven. God shows mercy on whom he will show mercy, but the idea that it is unfair for any of us to be punished for our sin that we ourselves choose trivializes the evils in the world.
You did. You brought up works, i.e. keeping the commandments.Who said anything about doing works to be saved?...
I follow the commandments given to my people from HaShem since
Sinai as best I can.
God is offering you a way to go to Heaven through Jesus theWhy is He going to send me to Hell?
All of us, by nature, choose hell every day: open a newspaper and look at the greed in the world, at the violence, at the self-centeredness, and we all fall short of loving God and loving our neighbor. Therefore, we do not deserve heaven. God shows mercy on whom he will show mercy, but the idea that it is unfair for any of us to be punished for our sin that we ourselves choose trivializes the evils in the world.
Well stated.This only works if you assume that our beliefs must have no areas of
mystery or the unexplained. I, as a Christian, do not pretend to
understand all things perfectly. But we do not believe that God sends
people to Hell against their will. People choose that. This does not
contradict the belief that heaven is a gift.
^This!^All of us, by nature, choose hell every day: open a newspaper and
look at the greed in the world, at the violence, at the self-
centeredness, and we all fall short of loving God and loving our
neighbor. Therefore, we do not deserve heaven. God shows mercy
on whom he will show mercy, but the idea that it is unfair for any
of us to be punished for our sin that we ourselves choose trivializes
the evils in the world.
You brought up saved. I didn't say I did anything to be "saved". It would be like you jumping to the conclusion that I keep the commandments to get 1 million dollars. I certainly didn't say that, you are imposing.You did. You brought up works, i.e. keeping the commandments.
God is offering you a way to go to Heaven through Jesus the
Messiah. It's up to you to accept it or not.
God is offering you a way to go to Heaven through Jesus the Messiah. It's up to you to accept it or not.
Not true. Anything other than the saving Grace through Jesus isYou brought up saved. I didn't say I did anything to be "saved". It
would be like you jumping to the conclusion that I keep the
commandments to get 1 million dollars. I certainly didn't say that, you
are imposing.
No, the HaShem didn't trick you. And as far a Loki is concerned, I'm aI looked into the whole thing. If Jesus is the Messiah, HaShem tricked
us Jews into believing the wrong things. HaShem is not Loki.
And with that it's time for me to go for Shabbat. See you guys on
Sunday!
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