An atheists world

[Valiantis]

It is not just creationist desperation, it is christian desperation.

Oh, yes. I feel a very strong sense of squirming.

I do not think creationists squirm, if they do then they have been doing it for most of their lives.

 

[bhsmte]

I do not think creationists squirm, if they do then they have been doing it for most of their lives.

The technical term for it would be; cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, denial, etc.

 

[createdtoworship]

It's called foreknowledge.

For the third time, you can choose the Pepsi.

Don't tell me you cannot choose the Pepsi.

I'm getting tired of hearing that.

AV: You can choose Pepsi.
Ana: If I cannot choose Pepsi.
AV: You can choose Pepsi.
Mr Strawberry: There is no choice.
AV: You can choose Pepsi.
Ana: If I cannot choose Pepsi.

You two are confusing yourselves, trying to put God in a catch-22.

I heard a story once about predestination.

there was a hall and a bunch of doors and on one door it reads "who ever wills shall enter" and once you go through the door is a table with a chair and a name plate with your name on it. You sit down. When you look back at the door on the other side it says "chosen before the foundation of the world."

I can't remember the story exactly, but I think it was CS.lewis that said it.

I agree with your assessment, to say someone can't chose the pepsi is not right. God chooses based on foreknowledge and sovereignty Romans states. So it's a cooperation that falls in line with the will of God.

the facts are this:

God knows everything

we have a free will

God knows what we will do ahead of time

but when someone says

If God knows we will chose a coke, therefore we can't chose a pepsi is innacurate. It doesn't follow the line of reason.

It would be more like

"we won't choose the pepsi"

 

[createdtoworship]

If we can have free will in Heaven except for sinful behaviour, why can't we have free will now except for sinful behaviour?

well in the millenial reign of Christ it says "He will rule with an iron rod" . Meaning basically it will be a divine police state. No sin allowed without swift repercussion from the Lord. The enemy "satan" will be locked up for this period so that there will be no excessive temptation beyond what we can bear. This is after the seven year tribulation. During this time the righteous dead will be ruling in a glorified bodily state. They will be kings and queens over the gentile secular nations prophecy states. In this glorified state I am sure we have free will but out flesh will be glorified so I am not sure that temptation will affect the body without normal bodily flesh involved. WE will be able to navigate this world quickly to respond to situations and govern. Some believe we will be able to fly like angels can. But we may be more like the angels we will not have the same flesh and bone as we do now, and we will not have the same free will because it will be a different situation. Much of our free will now has to do with making right decisions regarding lusts of the flesh (the three G's) (glory, gold, girls). But again without a body that is three dimensional we may not in fact even be desirous of those things who knows. For example in heaven there is no marriage, so free will will be exempt from say the third G (above). Girls. I look at heaven as a place where our souls are not weighed down with temptation or sin. But are free to explore the universe with God and Jesus. So evidently when we recieve our glorified bodies, our desires are shifted as well. I am sure angels don't covet gold for example.

 

[bhsmte]

I heard a story once about predestination.

there was a hall and a bunch of doors and on one door it reads "who ever wills shall enter" and once you go through the door is a table with a chair and a name plate with your name on it. You sit down. When you look back at the door on the other side it says "chosen before the foundation of the world."

I can't remember the story exactly, but I think it was CS.lewis that said it.

I agree with your assessment, to say someone can't chose the pepsi is not right. God chooses based on foreknowledge and sovereignty Romans states. So it's a cooperation that falls in line with the will of God.

the facts are this:

God knows everything

we have a free will

God knows what we will do ahead of time

but when someone says

If God knows we will chose a coke, therefore we can't chose a pepsi is innacurate. It doesn't follow the line of reason.

It would be more like

"we won't choose the pepsi"

But, the real question is; why won't you choose the pepsi?

 

[Valiantis]

For example in heaven there is no marriage, so free will will be exempt from say the third G (above). Girls. I look at heaven as a place where our souls are not weighed down with temptation or sin. But are free to explore the universe with God and Jesus. So evidently when we recieve our glorified bodies, our desires are shifted as well. I am sure angels don't covet gold for example.

You are delusional and a suitable case for treatment.

 

[ChristianDude69]

Uh, why was god there in the first place?
I mean I know everyone's questioning why the little mass exploded so randomly, but why was god there in the first place?

 

[lasthero]

I'm a little confused as to why there's no marriage in heaven, and by extension, no sex.

 

[Skaloop]

well in the millenial reign of Christ it says "He will rule with an iron rod" . Meaning basically it will be a divine police state. No sin allowed without swift repercussion from the Lord. The enemy "satan" will be locked up for this period so that there will be no excessive temptation beyond what we can bear. This is after the seven year tribulation. During this time the righteous dead will be ruling in a glorified bodily state. They will be kings and queens over the gentile secular nations prophecy states. In this glorified state I am sure we have free will but out flesh will be glorified so I am not sure that temptation will affect the body without normal bodily flesh involved. WE will be able to navigate this world quickly to respond to situations and govern. Some believe we will be able to fly like angels can. But we may be more like the angels we will not have the same flesh and bone as we do now, and we will not have the same free will because it will be a different situation. Much of our free will now has to do with making right decisions regarding lusts of the flesh (the three G's) (glory, gold, girls). But again without a body that is three dimensional we may not in fact even be desirous of those things who knows. For example in heaven there is no marriage, so free will will be exempt from say the third G (above). Girls. I look at heaven as a place where our souls are not weighed down with temptation or sin. But are free to explore the universe with God and Jesus. So evidently when we recieve our glorified bodies, our desires are shifted as well. I am sure angels don't covet gold for example.

Wait, so is glory good or bad?

 

[createdtoworship]

So now you know God's thoughts? It's starting to get a little deep in here.



The sins of a person's ancestors is not their choice, and yet they are punished with painful diseases and plagues for choices they never made, according to your theology. That seems like a very immoral system to me.

if your dad murdered someone, you don't go to jail. The Bible says.

but being born in sin (under adam) is different slightly because it is the environment of the sin that is transfered. For one time only God chose to transfer the guilt of the forbidden fruit to all mankind namely because in His foreknowledge He knew all would eat the same fruit if given the chance.

 

[createdtoworship]

Wait, so is glory good or bad?

it is both. One is glory given from God, the other is glory you build up yourself like pride.

 

[createdtoworship]

You are delusional and a suitable case for treatment.

probably, but whats your point?

 

[createdtoworship]

I'm a little confused as to why there's no marriage in heaven, and by extension, no sex.

our bodies are glorified, we will be like angels.

no need for reproduction, and pleasure is replaced by other more suitable means.

 

[bhsmte]

if your dad murdered someone, you don't go to jail. The Bible says.

but being born in sin (under adam) is different slightly because it is the environment of the sin that is transfered. For one time only God chose to transfer the guilt of the forbidden fruit to all mankind namely because in His foreknowledge He knew all would eat the same fruit if given the chance.

Seems like a lot of trouble to go to, for a creator that is omnipotent, all knowing, etc. etc.. And frankly, is full of contradictions.

 

[createdtoworship]

Uh, why was god there in the first place?
I mean I know everyone's questioning why the little mass exploded so randomly, but why was god there in the first place?

I am not sure I know the answer to this. This is one of the things we will find out in heaven.

 

[TheBeardedDude]

A omnipresent, omnipotent God whose creation is always said to be a world with mistakes. Yet, Christians know God knows the beginning and the end, that God has purpose for everything. I would like to hear how someone (atheist, or anyone), how they would do it differently; and let both science and theology pick apart at the suggestions based on facts today.

Example:

Joe the atheist: I would make the earth without grass; grass was a bad idea.

Joanne the atheist or creationist: What would the cows eat?

Joe the atheist: people

Berry: People?; so the people that remain don't have the strength to slaughter these beasts?

And so on...............

I will start with:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3 KJV)

All things were made by him? Did he make himself?

 

[createdtoworship]

Seems like a lot of trouble to go to, for a creator that is omnipotent, all knowing, etc. etc.. And frankly, is full of contradictions.

uuummm,

I wouldn't say Bible contradictions, just Bible difficulties.

One of my favorite books is "when Critics ask" by norman geisler. There are lots of others since then but this book changed my life. I realized if norman can study so much about Bible answers, then anyone can who wants to.

try it.

 

[lasthero]

our bodies are glorified, we will be like angels.

I'm not calling you a liar, but I'm unaware of any verse that says such a thing. Could you please cite it?

no need for reproduction, and pleasure is replaced by other more suitable means.

Is having sex without the intent of reproduction wrong? If I'm married and my wife and I go to heaven, why can't we have sex anymore? And, at the risk of getting PG, what other 'suitable means'?

 

[bhsmte]

uuummm,

I wouldn't say Bible contradictions, just Bible difficulties.

One of my favorite books is "when Critics ask" by norman geisler. There are lots of others since then but this book changed my life. I realized if norman can study so much about Bible answers, then anyone can who wants to.

try it.

I have consumed many of the rationals from christians who want the square peg to so desperately fit into the round hole.

I find them fascinating, from a psychological aspect.

 

[createdtoworship]

All things were made by him? Did he make himself?

God is self existent and self defining, beyond time and space. He is beyond the mass element. In one point there is nothing to create because He is beyond time and mass equation. If you take time and mass and excelerate them in a huge bowl. This is the universe. God would be beyond that mass, in His own spiritual domain. Without need of creation.