An atheists world

[AV1611VET]

Yes or no, if god knows I'll choose the coke, can I choose the Pepsi?

Of course you can, but then your "god knows I'll choose the coke" is a smokescreen to rant about cause-and-effect and misplaced blame.

 

[AV1611VET]

Wrong. If your god knows beforehand the coke will be bought then the option of not buying the coke does not exist. But without your god the fate of the coke is unknown and depends only on the person's freewill.

Well, like I said, if they would just stop selling Coke & Pepsi to you scientists, maybe we Christian wouldn't have to put up with your junk theology.

After all, if scientists can scratch themselves silly about a cat in a box, I'm sure they can mess anything up.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Ya ... how 'bout that?

Omniscience ≠ omnipotence.

Omniscience ≠ force.

Omniscience ≠ cause and effect.

Your omniscient god had a choice whether or not to create the universe knowing exactly what would happen. In making that choice he exercised omnipotence, force, and cause and effect. No one else.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Of course you can, but then your "god knows I'll choose the coke" is a smokescreen to rant about cause-and-effect and misplaced blame.

So you can buy the pepsi even though your god thinks that the coke will be bought. Your god can get it wrong? That's new.

 

[AV1611VET]

Your omniscient god had a choice whether or not to create the universe knowing exactly what would happen.

Ya ... ain't that something?

God is not going to bow to sin and let sin prevent Him from creating a perfect universe, is He?

In making that choice he exercised omnipotence, force, and cause and effect. No one else.

Imagine that!

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Of course you can, but then your "god knows I'll choose the coke" is a smokescreen to rant about cause-and-effect and misplaced blame.

I don't think it was us that gave this god the quality of omniscience.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you can buy the pepsi even though your god thinks that the coke will be bought. Your god can get it wrong? That's new.

Just buy a 7-Up and quit think-tanking yourselves into a stupor.

How's that?

You guys are drowning in a think-tank of paradoxes and refusing to take our hands to pull you out.

Of course, it's your choice.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Ya ... ain't that something?

God is not going to bow to sin and let sin prevent Him from creating a perfect universe, is He?

Imagine that!

Lol, you've just made your god responsible for sin.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't think it was us that gave this god the quality of omniscience.

That's right.

And you won't take it from Him, either.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Just buy a 7-Up and quit think-tanking yourselves into a stupor.

How's that?

You guys are drowning in a think-tank of paradoxes and refusing to take our hands to pull you out.

Of course, it's your choice.

Your inability/refusal to answer the question is noted.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

That's right.

And you won't take it from Him, either.

Well whatever is true is true I guess whether we like it or not. Of course the consequence of the omnipotent/omniscient creator combo is that we are just robots trundling along a pre planned path. If true then life is pretty meaningless and depressing but I'd rather the depressing truth than to live a lie. So is it true that there's an omnipotent omniscient creator god?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Of course you can, but then your "god knows I'll choose the coke" is a smokescreen to rant about cause-and-effect and misplaced blame.

It's not, its just a demonstration of why the two ideas are incompatible. If your answer is yes, then god can be wrong.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's not, its just a demonstration of why the two ideas are incompatible.

I believe even you called it a "paradox," did you not?

Then you argue as if it is a contradiction.

In my opinion ... well ... just buy a 7-Up and spare us the philosophy.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

I believe even you called it a "paradox," did you not?

Then you argue as if it is a contradiction.

In my opinion ... well ... just buy a 7-Up and spare us the philosophy.

Sorry, can't do that, it's all been pre-ordained by your god, old boy.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry, can't do that, it's all been pre-ordained by your god, old boy.

If you really believed that, by definition, you wouldn't be an atheist.

So if you don't believe it, do you mind if I don't believe it, either?

 

[Valiantis]

If you really believed that, by definition, you wouldn't be an atheist.

So if you don't believe it, do you mind if I don't believe it, either?

Of course he does not believe it that's why he wrote 'pre-ordained by your god'.

 

[EternalDragon]

Actually that's not what I said. I said god knows I'll buy the coke. I'll make this easy...

Yes or no, if god knows I'll choose the coke, can I choose the Pepsi? Just keep in mind its the day before and I haven't decided yet....

It is an irrelevant question and defies logic. If God knows you chose a coke, then you have already made that free choice to choose a coke.

Your problem is that you think God controls those choices or somehow we are pre-programmed like robots or puppets. I don't know where you get that idea from. God merely can see the past, present and future all at once. He is outside of time. He does not make your choices for you.

Besides, if there is no free will and it is like you said then you should not even have the ability to question it here or even know about it.

 

[And-U-Say]

You still have free will in heaven. But it will be as Adam and Eve were created to be. Innocent for lack of a better word. Not tempted.

You can still whatever you want to. Except for sinful behavior like killing, stealing, getting drunk, etc. I don't know about you but I don't do too much sinning here on earth and I like my life. Maybe you do bad things or you like it. That is something you'll have to think hard about.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA... Chuckles. How is that? How come this free yet no sinning situation cannot be the case here on earth? You can do whatever you want except sinning? Isn't that what we are talking about here? Isn't that an interference with free will as has been discussed on this entire thread?

I am not the one who needs to think hard here. You are the one that needs to think about how heaven and earth are different and how this fits into your whole free will theodicy. You have a lot of 'splainin to do.

 

[Valiantis]

You still have free will in heaven. But it will be as Adam and Eve were created to be. Innocent for lack of a better word. Not tempted.

You can still whatever you want to. Except for sinful behavior like killing, stealing, getting drunk, etc. I don't know about you but I don't do too much sinning here on earth and I like my life. Maybe you do bad things or you like it. That is something you'll have to think hard about.

The creationist desperation here is almost palpable.

 

[And-U-Say]

The creationist desperation here is almost palpable.

It is not just creationist desperation, it is christian desperation.

Oh, yes. I feel a very strong sense of squirming.