As an agnostic, i believe it impossible to be sure of any god/godess/demigods/ mysterious allpowerful forces. i am not saying there arnt there, but its impossible to be sure. With all these differnet faithes, which is the "true" faith. i , like all of you seek answers.
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An agnostic's conundrum
- Thread starter lostsheepwithoutashepard
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Digit
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Hi person with long name,
Why is this a conundrum out of interest? You are seeking just like we all are. The only difference is that some of us, have accepted what we believe to be the true faith. Also, I should mention that many of us have accepted this based on not just facts or logic, but on an experience and personal occurance.
If you believe in all powerful forces, doesn't that make you a deist instead?
Digit
Why is this a conundrum out of interest? You are seeking just like we all are. The only difference is that some of us, have accepted what we believe to be the true faith. Also, I should mention that many of us have accepted this based on not just facts or logic, but on an experience and personal occurance.
If you believe in all powerful forces, doesn't that make you a deist instead?
Digit
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i dont believe in any all powerful forces, im just saying it's impossible to be certin, though the way its going im leaning towards athiest
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according to your faith am i doomed to hell, assuming any of its real, and howcan a finite amount of sin equal infinite punishment?
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Digit
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Heya again.
First question is, yes I do believe this.
Second question, how does finite sin amount to infinite punishment I think it depends on your belief in that punishment. There are two schools of thought, one is that it is infinite and the other is that it is not. It all depends on how you interpret the scripture. I must say that the idea that it is not infinite appeals more to me and my belief in a loving God, however the idea that it is infinite will not make me turn away. Belief in an eternal spiritual body, that cannot be destroyed, says that this punishment is eternal, however belief in the second death, says that this body is destroyed, and thus it is not eternal.
Whoops, I got sidetracked on MSN, sorry it took so long to reply. I thought I hit the button actually... >_>
Digit
First question is, yes I do believe this.
Second question, how does finite sin amount to infinite punishment I think it depends on your belief in that punishment. There are two schools of thought, one is that it is infinite and the other is that it is not. It all depends on how you interpret the scripture. I must say that the idea that it is not infinite appeals more to me and my belief in a loving God, however the idea that it is infinite will not make me turn away. Belief in an eternal spiritual body, that cannot be destroyed, says that this punishment is eternal, however belief in the second death, says that this body is destroyed, and thus it is not eternal.
Whoops, I got sidetracked on MSN, sorry it took so long to reply. I thought I hit the button actually... >_>
Digit
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Digit
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According to Christian beliefs. I mean I should probably add a disclaimer. In that I have no right to judge anyone, and really God has the final, and indeed, ONLY say. But from my beliefs, you need to accept God as your one and true God, and you need to confess your sins, and begin a new life, one that God wishes you to believe.
I imagine it must sound almost fantastical when you put it in laymans terms, but there you have it.
Digit
I imagine it must sound almost fantastical when you put it in laymans terms, but there you have it.
Digit
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but what if i turned out that for example, that muslims were right, we'd BOTH be in hell! if that happans we could be hell buddies!
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Digit
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Ok, so now you are wondering which is right, how do you choose a faith and so on?
I think in this case, I can offer help. As for me, I never truly believed that Jesus existed, yet when I finally got around to looking into it, to researching the evidence for Jesus, I reached a conclusion that this man did indeed exist during history. There are historical accounts of Him, and from there, my path led me to all sorts of discoveries. It was a very exciting time heh, but really, I find the Biblical event of things to be that which makes the most sense. It is not without it's difficulties, but they can be overcome with an open heart and mind.
Digit
I think in this case, I can offer help. As for me, I never truly believed that Jesus existed, yet when I finally got around to looking into it, to researching the evidence for Jesus, I reached a conclusion that this man did indeed exist during history. There are historical accounts of Him, and from there, my path led me to all sorts of discoveries. It was a very exciting time heh, but really, I find the Biblical event of things to be that which makes the most sense. It is not without it's difficulties, but they can be overcome with an open heart and mind.
Digit
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Digit
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Nope, that's entirely correct. But you realise there's much more to go on than just His existence. I mean that's a big step in the right direction. How do you believe in God, when you don't even think Jesus existed. Whereas now, we know He did and can move forward to the next thing.
Already I should point out, that this is a huge step above other religions, who had no central character that claimed to be God. Jesus poitned to himself and said He is the way, He can forgive sins, the way to eternal life is through Him.
Next I think we can go on to prove his divinity. We can look at the miracles, that were observed by people, we can look at healing, at things that were simply not possible back then, in fact that have only become possible now. Like for example healing blindness. There is a stage called agnosia when you are healed of blindness, where you can make out objects, but not clearly. In the Bible it talks about this, when Jesus heals a blind man.
In addition there are all the things Jesus said and DID that place his as the greatest moral teacher, of perfect virtue in our time. Even secular media will testify to this.
Digit
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Digit
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Ok, but then ask yourself why is there even a Bible? Why would someone create this book, in fact not someone but many people wrote to create it, it contains over 60 individual books, all of which are perfectly continual with each other. ie One book doesn't say something which another book says didn't happen. They all create a perfect story.
Man can't do that, we can't write a perfect story without errors. Have you seen Lord of the Rings? Do you remember the scene where Boromir dies? Skewered by three arrows from an Uruk-hai? Well, each shot of that scene has arrows in a different place. Thousands of people made that film, over many years at the costs of millions... and it had errors.
You REALLY think man can create over 60 books, written over the course of 1600 years and not have any continuity errors? I defintely don't. This is why Christians believe the Bible is God's word.
Digit
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they arnt perfect there ther are inconsistences, as for the point to unite people and to get money and control, and a sense of importantce., and to answer the unknown
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Digit
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I don't feel those reasons truly speak to the core teachings of Christianity at all. The most important commandments are to love the Lord thy God, and to love thy neighbour as thyself. ie Love God, and treat people the same way you wish to be treated. Money, control, importance do not enter into it, answer the unknown... well, maybe, it depends if you feel that by giving a created answer to the unknown, you are further mankind intellectually. In addition, by uniting people, surely you risk it all if any part of your belief is proved untrue? The two don't seem to coincide very well and as such I reject them as reasons why people would labour for one thousand, six hundred years in order to create a book about life.
Alrighty, so we are making progress. As you feel there are inconsistencies in the Bible? Can you give me an example, maybe I can help explain it?
Digit
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hmm, lets see go to wikipedia to the artile Internal consistency and the bible plenty of examples there
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hmm, apologists, fine who knows you can explain some things away but not others, such as why does the bible support a stationary eath, and that the moon gives of its own light, that they say pi equals exactly 3, any responce
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