Amway, Alticor, Quixstar, Multi level marketing

[ohgin]

Hi everyone, just wondering what do you guys think about Amway or multilevel marketing in general. Do you think that it is against Chrstian Principles? Do you think that it is harmful towards us? Do you think that it is a deception from the devil? Or do you just think that it is a great business opportunity. Just want your views on this.thx

 

[seebs]

I don't think it necessarily goes against Christian principles, but it certainly goes against economic principles; it is not even a "decent" business opportunity, in general.

Amway in particular has a history of willfully manipulating naive Christians, for instance by spreading a rumor that Proctor&Gamble was a Satanist company.

 

[ohgin]

Why do you think that it goes against econimic principals?

 

[seebs]

A detailed discussion of that is too long, and unrelated to general theology.

Suffice it to say that all multilevel marketing schemes are essentially equivalent to pyramid schemes, and what they actually do is make a fair chunk of money for a few people who run them by siphoning it off of the suckers they target.

They can't really be profitable without an infinite population; in practice, they're pure scams.

The people who get involved in these lose money; occasionally the founders make money.

For more information, go to a search engine and research "ponzi schemes". Every MLM out there is a ponzi scheme, and they have to be; their entire design is to make the newbies pay larger chunks of money back to the people who came in before them, so you can sit around imagining how much money you could get, but in practice it costs you money.

You'd be better off running a lemonade stand.

 

[ohgin]

well, a lot of the topics here are unrelated to general theology. For example, the discussion on Harry Potter. I understand what you mean by having an infinite population in order for this to succeed. But what I was thinking is that I think you may have a little misconception on how Amway does it's business. The joining fee is quite minimal, I think about 30 US dollars. In a pyramid scheme most of the products that you actually buy are not worth the cost that you pay. This is not really the case in network marketing or at least in Amway. Anyway has anyone ever showed you the plan yet?

 

[ohgin]

Actually, I am more concerned about the spiritual aspect of this business. Would it affect my spiritual life? Are there other hidden stuff that may be unbiblical?

 

[seebs]

I know enough about Amway already.

Here's the thing. Ignore that it's pitched as a business for a moment, and compare it to the way cults are run. Amway strongly encourages people who aren't doing well to stay quiet, and people who are doing well to brag, creating the false impression that people are doing pretty well at it.

With all of the various "network marketing" schemes, the products are, in fact, not worth what you pay; if they were, there wouldn't be the profit margin that allows for all the "success stories".

Amway "succeeds" (I use the term loosely) through very aggressive pushes that don't actually make most of the people involved any money at all, and competes through tactics such as disseminating specific calculated slanders of other companies through their corporate voice-mail system to make sure all Amway reps tell the same lies; for instance, that P&G's old logo was Satanic, or that Tide is made from old peanut shells and clogs your drain.

 

[Leimeng]

~ It is a good legitimate business that suffers from having human beings involved in it. Get over it. It has nothing to with a ponzi scheme, either legally, ethically, or structurally. Basic business and para-legal classes at a community college will teach one that.
~ Getting information from the web about anything is a hit or miss deal. Not a creadible way to do research.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

 

[ohgin]

So are you an Amway member?

 

[ohgin]

That is the reason why I put this post. So that I can get a better view on Amway in general. At least when someone put up a post they have to justify what they say.

 

[ScottBot]

Hi everyone, just wondering what do you guys think about Amway or multilevel marketing in general. Do you think that it is against Chrstian Principles? Do you think that it is harmful towards us? Do you think that it is a deception from the devil? Or do you just think that it is a great business opportunity. Just want your views on this.thx

I have been involved with Amway/Quixtar for 7 years and haven't any problems with it. It is a business, and just like any business requires a certain skill set that most people have never developed. When they experience failure, they blame the business, rather than themselves. Popular personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki has nothing but positive things to say about the MLM industry, although he warns that there are charlatans in every corner of life. A second note about Amway/Quixtar/Alticor, both Jay Van Andel and his son Steve Van Andel were both elected President of the US Chamber of Commerce, the only ever father/son combo to hold that post. You don't get elected to hold that position if you are a fraudulent organization.

 

[ScottBot]

I don't think it necessarily goes against Christian principles, but it certainly goes against economic principles; it is not even a "decent" business opportunity, in general.

Amway in particular has a history of willfully manipulating naive Christians, for instance by spreading a rumor that Proctor&Gamble was a Satanist company.

False. Amway spent millions of dollars combating that rumor. Check your facts before you post anything libelous.

 

[ScottBot]

You'd be better off running a lemonade stand.

No, YOU would be better off setting up a lemonade stand, rather than dispensing inaccurate and half-brained advice about something which you have obviously no clue.

 

[ScottBot]

That is the reason why I put this post. So that I can get a better view on Amway in general. At least when someone put up a post they have to justify what they say.

First, it is important to let you know that Amway ceased being a business opportunity in America in 1999. The entire business model migrated to their online operation at Quixtar. The entire corporation restructured itself to be more streamlined and responsive. Alticor is the business management aspect of the entire group. They handle the network infrustructure, the computer systems, web development, and merchant partner agreements. Access Business Group manufactures many of the products that are sold. Quixtar is the online business model and website.

Here are some of the merchant partners who claim a direct and tenable link to improved online retail performance as a result of their business involvement with Quixtar.

Office Max
Bass Pro Shops
Circuit City
eToys (the online presence of Kay-Bee Toys)
The Dish Network
Barnes & Noble Bookstore
Wilson Leather
Motherhood Maternity
IBM (The Thinkpad Store)
FranklinCovey
Sprint
Verizon
T-Mobile

...to name only a few of the over 80 merchant partners we do business with. None of these companies are willing to get into a business arrangement that would hurt their own business. Think about it.

There is also a website called www.thisbiznow.com which will give you a perspective of the business you won't get if you do your research online. I would say ignore anyone who tries to tell you that it is a pyramid scheme. People who use that word usually work for one. What they are trying to convince you of is that there is something inherently immoral or illegal about the business model. Quixtar has the full blessing of the Federal Trade Commission, the Better Business Bureau, and the US Chamber of Commerce. I wouldn't give an ounce of credence to anyone who has anything negative to say about the opportunity. More likely than not, they are someone who got into the business, played around with it for a few weeks or months, found out they weren't cut out for it and didn't want to learn how to BE cut out for it, and quit. Now they want to make it Amway/Quixtar's fault that they failed.

Put it this way, if you were thinking about going to medical school, would you take advice from someone who failed out of medical school, or would you take advice someone who graduated and has established a successful medical practice? In this case, there is no difference. Don't take advice from someone who tried something and failed.

 

[ohgin]

Have you read the book merchants of deception?http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/DOWNLOADBOOK2.html

 

[ohgin]

So are you very successful in the Amway business?

 

[Joykins]

Here's my take on Amway and similar MLM schemes:

Sometimes they offer quality products. I am very pleased with Pampered Chef and Tupperware products for example. However, I find the business model to be high-pressure sales that hinges on exploiting friendships. For example, you go to a "party" and are expected to buy something, then the representative tries to sign you up to be under her in the pyramid or to have your own "party." Or friends you haven't heard from in a while will contact you just in order to tell you about a "business opportunity" at which point the pressure sell begins. And if you're like me, have a very small circle of geographically close RL friends and don't intend on putting the same screws on them, you're really of no use to these people but they try to make it hard for you to say no anyway.

Also it is not usually a good money maker for the kind of people who think they'll do well at it (like stay at home moms) because the company requires you to buy the junk up front before you sell it. A lot of people at the bottom of the pyramid don't make any money at all, and often they lose a bit. And it isn't even a decent tax write-off.

But some people make money out of it. Of course the people I know who made money out of it were already lawyers who were filthy rich AND to boot what did they give me for my wedding? An Amway catalog I could pick anything from, the stuff looked nice but when we got the clock it was PLASTIC that looked like wood instead of wood.

So for most people it is not only bad business opportunity, it also exploits the "little guy" and friendships which I think is contrary to Christian principles.

 

[ScottBot]

Have you read the book merchants of deception?http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/DOWNLOADBOOK2.html

Have you read Compassionate Capitalism, How to be Like Rich DeVos: Succeeding with Integrity in Business and Life, or Prosumer Power? Anyone can write a negative ****** book. They don't erect statues and sing songs about critics, they build statues and write songs about dreamers and winners.

 

[seebs]

False. Amway spent millions of dollars combating that rumor. Check your facts before you post anything libelous.

Well, it's true that millions of dollars were spent on the issue; however, I have not seen any of the evidence provided by either side.

However, having seen a number of MLM schemes analyzed in fair detail, I think the preponderance of evidence favors the assumption that making up elaborate stories is sort of par for the course.

 

[seebs]

No, YOU would be better off setting up a lemonade stand, rather than dispensing inaccurate and half-brained advice about something which you have obviously no clue.

I've seen a lot of MLM schemes come and go, and the essential problems with them do not seem to have been addressed.

There's been serious analysis with actual numbers, but somehow it always gets overlooked.

Amway distributors tout their business as "the best business opportunity in the world." Yet of the five million or so Americans whove been involved over its 40 year history, fewer than 1% have made a profit, and fewer than one-tenth of one percent have established the large incomes that they claim are achievable by all.

Ruth Carter has written a clear, concise account based on her 15 years of experience as a distributor and five years of insider information as the employee of a Diamond. The book attacks head-on the accusations of deception, cultism, and greed which are so often leveled at the Amway business. Here at last are the reasons why, clearly explained by a former insider.​

Now, of course, we could just declare that she's lying. And all the other ex-Amway people are lying, or incompetent, or malicious, or stupid. All of them.

Or, we could consider the possibility that the organization is about what it looks like, and compare its business model with dozens of other MLM schemes, and look at how these things work, and how they draw people in, and so on.

Can you make money at it? Sure. You can also make money running a "check-cashing" service which gouges its customers. There are lots of ways to make money.