Amoeba

[Cantuar]

Who says scientists don't know how to make an amoeba? Scientists have shown that biochemical processes are sufficient to form primitive cells and that variation and selection of populations of replicators is sufficient to make substantial changes in those cells one you have them.

If scientists did manage to make an ameoba from scratch, you'd just be back here crowing about how that proves that intelligent design is required, so the point of your present question seems a little disingenuous.

 

[Smilin]

Why was an amoeba chosen for this argument is my question???

 

[DNAunion]

Lucaspa: From the first paper: "...After 1,&nbsp;2,<SUP> </SUP>or 4&nbsp;days, we determined the yield of the peptides and the pH<SUP> </SUP>in the water phase ...&nbsp; In runs 13&nbsp;and 14&nbsp;and 19&nbsp;to 22,&nbsp;about 3&nbsp;nmol of tripeptides<SUP> </SUP>(Y-Y-Y) were detected after 1&nbsp;and 4&nbsp;days. "

BTW, I suspect you will try to play the game of "peptide" vs "protein".

DNAunion: No, I will point out the FACT that the words peptide and protein have different meanings in biology.

Also, I will point out that your quote shows that TRIpeptides formed - that's it, three amino acids linked together. That's not a protein.

Lucaspa: They are synonymous with peptide simply being reserved for shorter proteins.

DNAunion: So you are ignorant of biology - I knew it!

NO PROTEINS WERE FORMED IN THE EXPERIMENT.

Your silly assertion that they were is another example of your distorting scientific research for your own purposes. You might fool those here that aren't familiar with biology, but you don't fool me or any other person with formal education in the field.

 

[DNAunion]

Lucaspa: Second paper: "When fluid containing<SUP> </SUP>glycine repeatedly circulated through the hot and cold regions<SUP> </SUP>in the reactor, oligopeptides were made from glycine. When divalent<SUP> </SUP>ions (such as copper ions) were added under acidic conditions,<SUP> </SUP>oligoglycine was elongated up to hexaglycine.<SUP> "</SUP>

DNAunion: A whole 6 glycines joined together....whooppeee!

That's not a protein. You do know at least something about biology, don't you Lucaspa??

Lucaspa: "In our flow reactor (Fig. 1) a high-temperature high-pressure fluid was injected into a low-temperature chamber that was maintained at about the same high pressure as the fluid. The fluid circulated in a closed manner in the system with a fixed turnover rate.

DNAunion: Which basically invalidates the experiment as far as accurately modeling natural processes at deep-sea hydrothermal vents goes.

Hydrothermal vents are not closed reaction vessels where the fluid is continually circulated. The researchers circulated the fluid and its contents so that any products from previous flow throughs could combine with other such products in order to elongate. And even with this "cheatring", they managed only to get sequences up to 6 glycines stitched together.

Lucaspa: A HPLC profile identified at least four different oligomers: diketopiperazine, diglycine, tetraglycine, and hexaglycine"

DNAunion: Diketopiperazine is only two amino acids linked together (cyclically); a diglycine is only two amino acids linked together; tetraglycine is only four amino acids linked together; and hexaglycine - the best they achieved, even though they "cheated" and continued to recirculate products - is only 6 glycines linked together.

NONE OF THOSE ARE PROTEINS.

Lucaspa: The time course was only 30 minutes. So imagine cycling for days or weeks.

DNAunion: In a true hydrothermal vent setting? I would imagine the additional time would serve only to disperse out into the oceans any dipeptides that formed, where they would be too dilute to interact and would eventually hydrolyze back into individual amino acids. What's your point?

 

[DNAunion]

DNAunion: From the first article Lucaspa referenced ("A Sulfurous Start for Protein Synthesis?"):

"Not all specialists in the origins of life are convinced that this lab demonstration proves that the same thing could have happened naturally, however. Stanley Miller, a biochemist at the University of California, San Diego, says that concentrations of carbon monoxide, which activates the amino acids in Wachtershauser's reaction, are much lower in nature than in the experiment. And even if they reaction could occur in nature, it would not be adequate to form proteins that contain many amino acids, says Miller, who favors a cooler beginning for biomolecules."

 

[DNAunion]

DNAunion: Also from that same article...

"Pace adds a caution that applies to any lab effort to create biomolecules. "It's a very long leap", he says, "from [mineral] surface chemistry to a living cell."