Amnesty Day III - everyone has zero warnings! :)

[Erwin]

I've deleted the previous custom warning system and user note system and will now use the inbuilt forum software infraction system.

So everyone starts from scratch with zero warnings.

This is mainly because the old system is directly incompatible with the new system.

The new system is fairly simple - there are 2 layers, similar to before:

1. Infraction - this is a red card. This is similar to the old "official warning". Only these are appealable since only these count towards a suspension or ban.

2. Warning - this is a yellow card. This is similar to the old "unofficial warning/alert". This is merely a reminder and is not counted towards a suspension or ban, and are not appealable.

Hopefully this system will simplify matters - at the very least it should not be buggy.

More information should follow.

 

[daveleau]

Thanks, Erwin. Are any other major changes built in the upgrade, Erwin?

In Him,
Dave

 

[MariaRegina]

Thanks Erwin.


In the future, can a warning be removed if the mod made a mistake?

 

[edie19]

Sounds like soccer That makes it easy to understand.

Thanks for all the hard work Erwin - it is appreciated.

edie

 

[Truly Blessed]

I wish I would have know ahead of time .

 

[CaDan]

Thanks Erwin.


In the future, can a warning be removed if the mod made a mistake?

Yup. Infractions, too.

 

[Henaynei]

one wonders - what are the rewards under the CF system for those of us who work hard to never GET warnings/infractions??

we all know that there are habitual violators who *greatly* benefit from these now [at least] annual amnesties.....

whilst the rest of the membership who *never* had a warning just have to continue to struggle to endure the slings and offenses of the habitual offenders who yearly get a clean slate on which to restart their willful accumulation of infractions and "near misses" and who, by virtue of their misbehavior reap grace and benefits....

while those who are faithful to confine themselves within the rules are essentially taken for granted and ignored.....

 

[MariaRegina]

one wonders - what are the rewards under the CF system for those of us who work hard to never GET warnings/infractions??

we all know that there are habitual violators who *greatly* benefit from these now [at least] annual amnesties.....

whilst the rest of the membership who *never* had a warning just have to continue to struggle to endure the slings and offenses of the habitual offenders who yearly get a clean slate on which to restart their willful accumulation of infractions and "near misses" and who, by virtue of their misbehavior reap grace and benefits....

while those who are faithful to confine themselves within the rules are essentially taken for granted and ignored.....

Ah! But we will get heavenly treasures and earthly peace of mind.

See the Beatitudes:

"For great is your reward in heaven."

 

[seebs]

Do warnings count towards infractions? For instance, does a history of warnings influence your chances of geting an infraction for something borderline?

 

[alaurie]

one wonders - what are the rewards under the CF system for those of us who work hard to never GET warnings/infractions??

we all know that there are habitual violators who *greatly* benefit from these now [at least] annual amnesties.....

whilst the rest of the membership who *never* had a warning just have to continue to struggle to endure the slings and offenses of the habitual offenders who yearly get a clean slate on which to restart their willful accumulation of infractions and "near misses" and who, by virtue of their misbehavior reap grace and benefits....

while those who are faithful to confine themselves within the rules are essentially taken for granted and ignored.....

Yep ...it's a weird sort of grace.

Reminds me of my small-town Southern Baptist upbringing. You could live like hell during the week then walk the aisle to publically 'rededicate' your life on the occasional Sunday morning. Only with these blanket amnesties there isn't even a need for any sort of repentance ....private/public, sincere, or for show.

 

[tall73]

This is mainly because the old system is directly incompatible with the new system.

This was not mainly a policy decision, but a forced software reality.

And we can react in a grudging way or be glad that there is grace.

This amnesty day was rather close to the past one. But since this new system is built in that should not be a problem in the future. Erwin had to hand code many of the CF features, and the discipline system used to be one of them. The built in system should be less buggy, just because it is default, and should transfer to the next version.

 

[alaurie]

This was not mainly a policy decision, but a forced software reality.

Thanks Didn't catch that initially.

 

[Henaynei]

I totally understand that *this* specific amnesty was "forced by the software" - I am also aware that this is "Amnesty #3" (well, actually it is #4, but who is counting :o )

The issue I bring up is not specific to this "amnesty" but to the principle in general, the way it is handled and the flagrant inequity and lack of gratitude it shows toward those on this board who are diligent in their obedience of the rules vs the free, painless/effortless and easy grace shown on a nearly scheduled basis to those who make rule violation their practice dejur....

 

[tall73]

Thanks Didn't catch that initially.

No problem

 

[tall73]

I totally understand that *this* specific amnesty was "forced by the software" - I am also aware that this is "Amnesty #3" (well, actually it is #4, but who is counting :o )

The issue I bring up is not specific to this "amnesty" but to the principle in general, the way it is handled and the flagrant inequity and lack of gratitude it shows toward those on this board who are diligent in their obedience of the rules vs the free, painless/effortless and easy grace shown on a nearly scheduled basis to those who make rule violation their practice dejur....

I cannot say for sure, but I think they were all essentially software issues. Maybe someone on staff longer can say with more authority. Everytime that the VBulletin software changed it was necessary for security etc. to upgrade. Since Erwin had to code everything that could throw off moving the records to the new system.

In other words, it is great in principle to keep these records, but sometimes the records are very hard to transfer over. It is a technical issue.

But more to the point, do you really need a reward for doing what is right?

I never had an official contact or warning before anyway (though I did get a staff edit request when I deserved one!)

But I didn't think that entitled me to anything. I should be doing what I agreed to in the rules agreement.
We are servants of God, bound by our own oath, by conscience sake and by love for Christ to follow the rules--especially those dealing with simple courtesy. Why should we expect a reward for what was our duty?

Now if it s a valid concern that some have abused the system. But with this new software being built in I think that will change in the future. For now, just like in the real world, we have to follow Paul's admonition:

Rom 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

 

[Henaynei]

I cannot say for sure, but I think they were all essentially software issues.

I was on staff for 2 years, part of that in Administration - trust me - I *can* say for sure, they were *not* software issues - none but this one....

as for abusers of the system - you bet - discussion of who and what the circumstances were would not be appropriate - but there are definitely those let back on CF in the past for whom staff had/have bent themselves nearly in triple trying to get them to comply with CF rules and yet those offenders forced the staff to eventually ban/suspend them, more than once - and when all the "infractions" are deleted, so are the bans....

b'Shalom
Henaynei

 

[CaDan]

I was on staff for 2 years, part of that in Administration - trust me - I *can* say for sure, they were *not* software issues - none but this one....

as for abusers of the system - you bet - discussion of who and what the circumstances were would not be appropriate - but there are definitely those let back on CF in the past for whom staff had/have bent themselves nearly in triple trying to get them to comply with CF rules and yet those offenders forced the staff to eventually ban/suspend them, more than once - and when all the "infractions" are deleted, so are the bans....

b'Shalom
Henaynei

IIRC, in the amnesty just prior to the most recent one, bans were not reversed.

 

[tall73]

I was on staff for 2 years, part of that in Administration - trust me - I *can* say for sure, they were *not* software issues - none but this one....

Erwin can clarify if he likes. There may have been more than one motivation, but it is no accident that the amnesty days correlate with software upgrades/database changes:


Upgrade finishes on Feb. 11, amnesty announced on Feb 14.
http://www.christianforums.com/t2564164-upgrades-almost-done-site-90-finished.html

Rebuild of database, then amnesty shortly thereafter.
http://www.christianforums.com/t1931536

 

[tall73]

IIRC, in the amnesty just prior to the most recent one, bans were not reversed.

Only forum specific if I recall. That seems to be indicated in the old thread. Those for trolling etc. were not.

 

[Henaynei]

Erwin can clarify if he likes. There may have been more than one motivation, but it is no accident that the amnesty days correlate with software upgrades:


Upgrade finishes on Feb. 11, amnesty announced on Feb 14.
http://www.christianforums.com/t2564164-upgrades-almost-done-site-90-finished.html

it certainly made a convenient time - but if you REALLY search the Staff Room archives you will find that the discussion of whether or not to grant that amnesty had nothing to do with any necessity related the software upgrade.... or any previous amnesty -- but, whatever ...

however, the point of my small post is being sidetracked

the violators can depend on rewards whilst those who obey the rules can depend on someone accusing them of a lack of spirituality if they point out that some blessing for obedience would be both kind and generous - at least once in a while....

b'Shalom
Henaynei