I just finished "What does the Future Hold?" by Progressive Dispensationalist C. Marvin Pate.
He states over and over how Premillennialists have inherited their hermeneutics from Judaism.
Judaism is a false religion. At the first coming Christ rebuked them for their faulty hermeneutic.
jm
Yeah, though it would seem with some that being a Jew is almost as good as being a Christian, like there are two paths of salvation.
Let me see if I have this right: because Progressive Dispensationalists believe that "Premillennialists have inherited their hermeneutics from Judaism," it is a credible statement?
Did the book read also speak of their belief that "Michael" is the Lord Jesus Christ? Is that also credible?
In this thread it seems that there are some amillennial believers here, to which I would ask a few questions:
Why is it that those that embrace a pre-tribulational view are accused of embracing "new theology" while amillennialism is immune from the same charge? Is it not held that the pre-millennial view was found first in the Church and not until the fourth century that amillennialism became popular?
Also, could you tell me how a thousand years is not a thousand years?
I would also ask how it is that if the Lord taught...
Matthew 24:21
King James Version (KJV)
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
...and we saw tribulation in the 20th century far exceed that of the first, does it not stand to reason that something worse than both those times can be expected?
Lastly, Consider:
Revelation 17
King James Version (KJV)
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
Four aspects in this vision I think to be relevant to the conversation: the woman; the beast; seven heads; ten horns.
The best commentary on scripture is always going to be scripture.
It is just my view that the "woman" represents false religious systems which have plagued the earth since Cain, who chose his own way to sacrifice rather than that prescribed by God. "Harlotry" is often the term given to idolatry, and represents the unfaithful to God.This harlot will sonn be destroyed (vv.15-16).
Consider:
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The Angel says, "I will tell thee the mystery," so, we simply listen to the mystery explained.
The "beast" John sees was, and is not, shall ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition. Again it is just my view that we see in this beast Satan, Antichrist, and the kingdom which is in view in the Tribulation.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Remember, "the beast has seven heads and ten horns." The seven heads are said to be mountains and there are seven kings. Five are fallen (no more), one is (currently existing, the likely candidate Rome, who was in power at this time), and the other is not yet come (the last king who I believe is Antichrist). The last king's reign is said here to be short.
Now, how about the seven mountains?
Consider:
Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greece
Rome
Those in black have fallen (five have fallen), and Rome in red was in existance at the time of this writing (one is), and the one that "has not yet come and will have a short reign" is the last kingdom and king.
How can It be said, when Rome did not cease until several centuries later, that this is fulfilled in the first century?
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
The beast, the power behind every empire the world has seen (Satan), as well as his figurehead, the Antichrist, is said to be the "eighth," speaks, I believe, of the twofold power of Antichrist. Antichrist will arrive on the scene as a great bringer of peace. Acording to Daniel, he will break a covenant in the middle of a seven year period:
Daniel 9:27
King James Version (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Having done this, he will then...
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
King James Version (KJV)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
I believe this is the "abomination which makes desolate."
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
In other words, a kingdom will arise, and those given strong delusion will buy into this king and kingdom, just as we see people being primed today for a "New World Order." Many in the world are seeking to unite the earth as one community. Sounds great, but there are only two peoples upon the face of the earth, The People of God, and the children of the Devil. This ruler will be similar to Obama: loved worldwide, expected to bring peace, a political virtuoso, so to speak. I believe he will bring a pseudo peace in the middle east for the space of 3 1/2 years. I believe there will be a Temple built in Jerusalem during this time. It is not necessary that the Temple be finished (though with modern technology this could be accomplished) for the Jews to worship there.
While I assume that most amillennial consider the prophecy to have been fulfilled in time past, Christ used the very same terminology and prophecy to foretell events of the Tribulation:
Matthew 24:14-21
King James Version (KJV)
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And while I do believe that a partial fulfillment can be seen in ancient times, both in Antichus Epiphanes as well as even having application in the first century, we see in this passage that Christ gave a future application to the Abomination which makes desolate.
When Revelation was written, regardless of whether one believes it to be before AD70 or after, it is said that five kings are fallen, one is, and one is to come. How would you guys reconcile this particular prophecy in your theology?
I ask that if you cannot from scripture answer this, then you show the source of the commentary you find the answer. I would much prefer to speak with an amillennial that can of himself respond to this.
God bless.
