American Charity!

[cantata]

Not to punish the parents. Did you read my post? I said if the child is SICK, COLD, HUNGRY, etc. Would you rather keep the child in a household where it's starving and just give the parents money? How do you even know they'd spend it on the kids? It may be going to drugs and maybe that's why they don't have a JOB in the first place.

Yeah, maybe. Or maybe not.

You can't generalise about every situation, and I find it bizarre that you're framing this in terms of laziness, and also that you're advocating calling social services solely on the basis of the parents' failure to find employment. Of course if a child is being abused it needs to be looked after, but you don't make that call based on whether or not the parents happen to be working.

 

[angellica]

I agree with most of what you're saying (aside from taking away the children - that should be a last ditch thing).

However, I totally disagree with the way you are wording it.

I know many families here in Detroit who are "lazy" about job hunting but a big part of that is because the jobs they can get are low paying jobs (but still employment, granted) and they end up making less than they did while on welfare. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a person in that situation to run out and get a job that's gonna take them out of the house PLUS pay less.

You can't judge all situations the same because of some preconceived notion that we have of people on welfare. Sure, I don't want anyone abusing the system, either. But there are better ways to do this than declaring that anyone who doesn't have a job and whose kids are cold are unfit to be parents.

have you ever seen The Pursuit of Happyness? If not, you should watch it.

I think part of my way of thinking has to do with where I'm from. If you lived here, you'd know what I mean . I've just seen so many people abuse the system it makes me mad. Now, if someone doesn't have a job and their kids are hungry, but they ARE LOOKING for a job, then I'm not saying they are unfit. I'm talking about the parents who are barely making it on welfare, cheating the system, lying, etc. and also not looking for a job at all, they are just being greedy and aren't thinking about their kids or their kids' futures.

 

[angellica]

Yeah, maybe. Or maybe not.

You can't generalise about every situation, and I find it bizarre that you're framing this in terms of laziness, and also that you're advocating calling social services solely on the basis of the parents' failure to find employment. Of course if a child is being abused it needs to be looked after, but you don't make that call based on whether or not the parents happen to be working.

Whether or not they are working has to do with whether or not the kids are taken care of as far as food, clothes, etc. And they are lazy if they don't have a job and aren't looking (unless they are disabled).

 

[Skaloop]

but you don't make that call based on whether or not the parents happen to be working.

Especially in this economy.

 

[cantata]

Whether or not they are working has to do with whether or not the kids are taken care of as far as food, clothes, etc. And they are lazy if they don't have a job and aren't looking (unless they are disabled).

What about depression? What about anxiety? A lot of unemployed people have undiagnosed mental illnesses. Many have no qualifications, no useful experience, not even smart clothes to go to an interview. I just don't think you can deem everyone who's given up trying to find work "lazy" and snatch their kids from them to try to jerk them into action. Life's a lot more complicated than that.

 

[sidhe]

Especially in this economy.

^This. I was unemployed for a long time due to being overeducated and overqualified for service-sector employment. I couldn't even get a job waiting tables or tending bar, and I'd DONE that while getting my degree. Just having a B.A. made me overqualified.

 

[angellica]

What about depression? What about anxiety? A lot of unemployed people have undiagnosed mental illnesses. Many have no qualifications, no useful experience, not even smart clothes to go to an interview. I just don't think you can deem everyone who's given up trying to find work "lazy" and snatch their kids from them to try to jerk them into action. Life's a lot more complicated than that.

Anyone can find a job, a dang job at McDonald's or something, if they really try to. I have depression and panic attacks and mild agoraphobia, but I go to work and I deal with it on my own. I don't use it as an excuse not to get a job. It was terrifying, the whole job-finding process, for me. I got panic attacks and I was freaked out at the thought of having a job full-time, a "real" job. But you have to grow up, grow a pair, and quit whining and WORK!!!

 

[sidhe]

What about depression? What about anxiety? A lot of unemployed people have undiagnosed mental illnesses. Many have no qualifications, no useful experience, not even smart clothes to go to an interview. I just don't think you can deem everyone who's given up trying to find work "lazy" and snatch their kids from them to try to jerk them into action. Life's a lot more complicated than that.

^Also this. A schizophrenic can't hold a job without medication, and can't get medication without insurance.

 

[cantata]

Anyone can find a job, a dang job at McDonald's or something, if they really try to. I have depression and panic attacks and mild agoraphobia, but I go to work and I deal with it on my own. I don't use it as an excuse not to get a job. It was terrifying, the whole job-finding process, for me. I got panic attacks and I was freaked out at the thought of having a job full-time, a "real" job. But you have to grow up, grow a pair, and quit whining and WORK!!!

Not everyone is superwoman; er, I mean, angellica. Depression, bipolar disorder, and anxiety disorders affect people in different ways and with different degrees of seriousness, and can be completely debilitating if they're not treated. Sorry, but not everyone can "quit whining".

And no, sorry to burst your bubble, but not everyone can find a job. People with a criminal record find it particularly difficult.

 

[sidhe]

Anyone can find a job, a dang job at McDonald's or something, if they really try to. I have depression and panic attacks and mild agoraphobia, but I go to work and I deal with it on my own. I don't use it as an excuse not to get a job. It was terrifying, the whole job-finding process, for me. I got panic attacks and I was freaked out at the thought of having a job full-time, a "real" job. But you have to grow up, grow a pair, and quit whining and WORK!!!

I've heard that. When I was out of work, I applied at a fast food place. I got told that I couldn't be hired because the manager didn't have a degree and I'd waited tables and tended bar in a nice high-end restaurant for a while, and that meant the district manager might start wondering why not put someone with experience working in a REAL restaurant with a REAL degree in charge.

In other words, no, you're wrong.

 

[Nihilismus]

^This. I was unemployed for a long time due to being overeducated and overqualified for service-sector employment. I couldn't even get a job waiting tables or tending bar, and I'd DONE that while getting my degree. Just having a B.A. made me overqualified.

Fine, but you didn't have to brag about living off the state and looking forward to your next kid because it means you'd have a little more money in your pocket. That's just pushing it...

 

[cantata]

^Also this. A schizophrenic can't hold a job without medication, and can't get medication without insurance.

And of course, may not even know that they need medicating.

 

[sidhe]

Fine, but you didn't have to brag about living off the state and looking forward to your next kid because it means you'd have a little more money in your pocket. That's just pushing it...

Errr? Que?

 

[angellica]

Well I guess I'll just quit working because I have depression. I may even start sleeping around. If I get pregnant, it doesn't matter because you suckers will be paying for the kid!

 

[angellica]

Fine, but you didn't have to brag about living off the state and looking forward to your next kid because it means you'd have a little more money in your pocket. That's just pushing it...

I said I knew people with that attitude and people who said that. I did not say anyone on this forum said that, nor that everyone has this philosophy.

 

[angellica]

I've heard that. When I was out of work, I applied at a fast food place. I got told that I couldn't be hired because the manager didn't have a degree and I'd waited tables and tended bar in a nice high-end restaurant for a while, and that meant the district manager might start wondering why not put someone with experience working in a REAL restaurant with a REAL degree in charge.

In other words, no, you're wrong.

But instead of being lazy, you kept looking and found one . I'm referring to people who don't try.

 

[cantata]

Well I guess I'll just quit working because I have depression. I may even start sleeping around. If I get pregnant, it doesn't matter because you suckers will be paying for the kid!

You're clearly capable of working.

Not everyone with depression is.

It's not that hard to understand.

 

[Skaloop]

Anyone can find a job, a dang job at McDonald's or something, if they really try to. I have depression and panic attacks and mild agoraphobia, but I go to work and I deal with it on my own. I don't use it as an excuse not to get a job. It was terrifying, the whole job-finding process, for me. I got panic attacks and I was freaked out at the thought of having a job full-time, a "real" job. But you have to grow up, grow a pair, and quit whining and WORK!!!

What if McDonalds isn't hiring? What if tens of thousands of people who worked in your industry are all now looking for work among a few thousand jobs available? What if you've got five kids and minimum wage just ain't gonna cut it for taking care of them?

Even if there are some lazy people who take advantage of the system, how do you propose that be monitored? How do you tell the difference between someone actively but unsuccessfully looking for work, and someone taking the welfare check and running with it?

 

[angellica]

You're clearly capable of working.

Not everyone with depression is.

It's not that hard to understand.

So are people on welfare, yet they don't work and they get a check. I want my check! What, you can only get a check if you have kids? Then I'll have one, please. Now I can sit around and do nothing and get paid. I can't wait for the kid to be in school so I don't have to watch it.

 

[Nihilismus]

Errr? Que?

Read a page or so back for an excellent caricature of a welfare cheat courtesy of the resident libertarian.