Amazing facts about evolution (2)

[HitchSlap]

What differing conclusions are we talking here?

Where did the universe come from and how and what is the evidence of it for the universe without a Creator?

What causes a unplanned, unguided universe to have laws that govern it and without a Creator who or what made those laws that the universe is governed by?

What causes this appearance of design in a universe that astrophysicists claim exists in a no creator universe and what is the evidence that explains it?

Same thing that created the creator, I suppose. Then turtles, right?

 

[Paulos23]

we are not only self aware, we are also aware of cultures halfway around the world.
i've seen no evidence that animals are aware of such things.
i'm sorry, but animals do not aspire.

Humans are animals. Some animals communicate, and they antisapate changes in their environment to some extent. You are giving humans to much credit.

tell me, where exactly does your "studies of the subject" tell you where life comes from?
remember, you want hard core proof.

I don't know, but given the fact that life at its base a chemical process it is a good bet to start there. Note: Just because I dont' know doesn't mean goddidit. I see less evidence for that.

[qutoe]
then i'm sure you can provide the "hard core evidence" that animals exhibit the same traits.
[/quote]

Tool use by animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Animal communication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

first of all, i don't believe in a god.

Could have fooled me.

second, it's my guess that science has already made that breakthrough and has determined life cannot arise naturally.

Evidence?

why else are evolutionists now saying abiogenesis is not evolution?

Because evolution doesn't, and it never has. It covers the origon of speices. There is no consperisy there.

you haven't read the evidence i've been presenting have you.

You haven't had any links.

really?
then why aren't you aware of the missing primate fossil tree?
you were taught evolution is true, do you believe evolution is true?
do you realize that you were lied to?

what missing primate fossil tree? I am aware that new findings changes our understanding of the human ancetry tree, and that some spieces that we thought where anceters are not. But that happens all the time in science.

why would laws be required to keep evolution in our schools if it had all this "hard core evidence"?

I have yet to see hard core evidence for the Garden of Eden or the Great Flood. There are gaps in the fossile record, and what we have is the best understanding of what evidence we have. Untill more evidence comes forth it is the best we got.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Indeed.

This is why you see some, claim the existence of the universe, the beauty in it, the appearance of design etc., as evidence that supports their God. The problem is, this could be evidence of other phenomenon, besides God.

At the end of the day, if that is all you have and you really need to substantiate your belief, you have to grab onto something.

Well I will consider your belief if you can give me one. Why does the universe have the appearance of design?

 

[AV1611VET]

And whois is no Perry Mason.

Perry Mason was a TV lawyer, played by one of those ... um ... well ... one of those ... er ... well ... Robert Reed types.

 

[HitchSlap]

Seriously Hitch where do you think life came from?

Seriously, no idea.

Some competing hypotheses: thermal vents, space rocks, climates...

I hope to be alive when we figure it out.

 

[whois]

The source of the claim was you. You claimed laws were required to teach evolution. Are you going to support your claim and identify these laws, or are you going to retract your claim?

go away.
i already told you it was in one of my posts, in connection with the piece i posted about the reluctance of biology teachers to teach evolution.
i did not make any claims, i posted what someone else said.
you need to ask THEM what they are talking about, not me.

what is this exactly, attacking the messenger?

 

[crjmurray]

Perry Mason was a TV lawyer, played by one of those ... um ... well ... one of those ... er ... well ... Robert Reed types.

Real classy

 

[HitchSlap]

Well I will consider your belief if you can give me one. Why does the universe have the appearance of design?

Because your mammalian brain has evolved to seek patterns. Don't get all metaphysical on us now.

 

[crjmurray]

go away.
i already told you it was in one of my posts, in connection with the piece i posted about the reluctance of biology teachers to teach evolution.
i did not make any claims, i posted what someone else said.
you need to ask THEM what they are talking about, not me.

what is this exactly, attacking the messenger?

It's called trying to validate your claims. If you think that's an attack then you've got some delicate sensibilities.

 

[HitchSlap]

go away.
i already told you it was in one of my posts, in connection with the piece i posted about the reluctance of biology teachers to teach evolution.
i did not make any claims, i posted what someone else said.
you need to ask THEM what they are talking about, not me.

what is this exactly, attacking the messenger?

Be nice now.

All the biology teachers I know have no reluctance teaching ToE.

 

[AV1611VET]

Some competing hypotheses: thermal vents, space rocks, climates...

Angels came from thermal vents, space rocks, climates ... did they?

I hope to be alive when we figure it out.

Just to be technical, don't you mean, "when the discovery is made"?

You make it sound like it's a matter of someone figuring it out.

 

[Paulos23]

Have you not found it or have you denied that it is evidence of God's existence?

If it is a matter of interpretation, sorry don't play that game. I find most peoples personal experances can, and are, mistaken about a great many things, including my own. Memory is not 100% and it is easy to make classification errors from what you are seeing. The dress on the internet is an example of that.

I would think god would be more clearer to me then that. If he has given me evidence that I rejected, so be it. Given all the other lack of evidence from religious claims I doubt I will find any, and if I meet him after he will get an hearful from me.

 

[HitchSlap]

Perry Mason was a TV lawyer, played by one of those ... um ... well ... one of those ... er ... well ... Robert Reed types.

Male actors?

 

[bhsmte]

go away.
i already told you it was in one of my posts, in connection with the piece i posted about the reluctance of biology teachers to teach evolution.
i did not make any claims, i posted what someone else said.
you need to ask THEM what they are talking about, not me.

what is this exactly, attacking the messenger?

You claimed there were laws in place to teach evolution, did you not?

Don't make claims if you can't support them and playing the victim when you are asked to support your claims, rings hollow.

To refresh your memory from your post 1951:

why would laws be required to keep evolution in our schools if it had all this "hard core evidence"?

 

[AV1611VET]

Real classy

Yes, it ran for nine years, and even had several full-length shows.

Mom loved it.

I always liked Columbo.

 

[Paulos23]

You just can't admit they are wrong, can you?

Is your perspective that weak?

I thought I was clear about it when I typed "Or to be blunt, yes I think they are believing in something they have no good evidence for."

But if you want something sharper, yes I think they are wrong. But I am not going to tell that to their face since they have a right to believe in what they think is true.

 

[crjmurray]

Yes, it ran for nine years, and even had several full-length shows.

Mom loved it.

I always liked Columbo.

He's my role model.

 

[DerelictJunction]

This is an example of faulty interpretation on your part. This is talking about matter being made of invisible elements.

I read the chapter, again.
You'll just have to explain your reply because I don't see where you got that conclusion.

 

[selfinflikted]

Yes, it ran for nine years, and even had several full-length shows.

Mom loved it.

I always liked Columbo.

Hunter was my favorite, with his sidekick Deedee McCall. Anyone remember Hunter? That was an awesome show.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You are putting word in my mouth.

That is not my intent, that is what I surmised from what you said.

I never said how or why I would make the universe a certain way. I was simply asking why your god would be constrained by rules such that he had to make the universe a certain way.

I didn't say He had to do anything. If what I say is true (which I don't doubt in the slightest), God did do it that way. Claiming that there was no reason for Him to do it this way is simply false assumption. You have no reason to think that He had to do it this way or that another way might have been better. That just comes down to your opinion and I doubt that if I had created a universe with life as abundant and wonderful as this that I would really care much what you thought about it.

Going by the attributes given to god by Christians, I would think that if he wanted the entire universe to be the size of the earth, then he could do it. You are the one asserting that he could not.

He didn't want to. Why should He? What reason would there be to do it any other way?

Are you serious with this? Do you really believe, out there in the vastness of space, there are all the people who once lived on this earth just, floating around post mortem? And that that is the reason the universe is so big?

Really?

Where do you think Heaven would be?

No. But I was trying to make a point.

If you were making a point I think it would have been made which it wasn't. It was a mockingly made remark and I really think we both know that.

The view of the universe by people that lived during the time of the Biblical authors was vastly different that what we know to be true today. This is simply trying to shoehorn what the Bible says with what we observe (and deservedly, I'll give you a bit of credit here. It does "seem" to fit nicely, but it really doesn't).

Explain what you mean by it may "seem" to fit nicely but it really doesn't. How does it really not?

Secondly, I don't see how you can honestly reconcile day 5 with the Cambrian explosion. According to the Bible, DAY 5 happened in... a day.

It was a day but a day is different with no sun or moon and from where ever you are in the universe. This day, I believe includes several eras of time.

The Cambrian explosion happened over the period of roughly 30 MILLION years. Further the earth doesn't "hang" in space at all. It isn't hanging, but rather moving, constantly, and held in place by gravity.

Yes and yes. Have you seen pictures of the earth from space?

If you were given a vision of the earth inspired by God what would you say?

Lastly, the Bible says plants were alive before the sun was even created. This is impossible, as we all should know.

No we don't. We don't know what kind of life could have lived prior to what life we have a record for. We know that there was a time when oxygen was not available for life to exist but it did.

ETA: I apologize for being slow to respond, or having very short responses when it is obvious you put a lot of time/effort into your posts. Just know that I mostly post from work (shh. don't tell my boss), so I'm up and down from my desk all day.

Your secret is safe with me.