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I don't know, but your comment makes me wonder if maybe he had some problem with someone else in the past? I don't know.Could it be that the priest is hiding something?
Well that would apply to a lot of great Christian men throughout history. I know it can raise the question "is he homosexual" (which is why I mentioned above that my priest knows of a couple of dalliances with females I had many years ago), but personally, if I hear a man's a bachelor, I don't automatically go to "I wonder if he's a pedophile".Nonetheless in general there's a stigma and perception of others when it comes to being a childless bachelor.
I see. I guess I misunderstood you. I was thinking of the conversation on Halloween, and I guess you were talking about my comments I made to him five years earlier. My apologies.Quite the contrary, I came to that conclusion because apparently the wife didn't question or protest the husband parking down the block instead of pulling up to the house.
Of course not since you are batchelor yourself. And I don't think it's a universal thing by any means. But it does with many put one in the oddball category as far as human assessment goes.Well that would apply to a lot of great Christian men throughout history. I know it can raise the question "is he homosexual" (which is why I mentioned above that my priest knows of a couple of dalliances with females I had many years ago), but personally, if I hear a man's a bachelor, I don't automatically go to "I wonder if he's a pedophile".
I think women can tent to be more leery of such. And that's what it comes down to in most cases I think. Not a full on he must be blank judgment. But perhaps a tad wondering and a tad leery. He's most likely not, but better safe than sorry.I see. I guess I misunderstood you. I was thinking of the conversation on Halloween, and I guess you were talking about my comments I made to him five years earlier. My apologies.
I understand why he would respond the way he did even more so now knowing that he is a priest.@Isaac the Recluse @mourningdove~ @Michie @Jermayn @comana @RileyG @FireDragon76 @2PhiloVoid
Got more replies than expected. Thank you everyone for reading, and for your input. There's some info left out of the OP because I like to keep posts as short as possible, and because I didn't think it relevant, or because I thought it was too personal.
I apologize for this post being long, which I try to avoid usually, but it seems necessary here.
The man I'm talking about is my priest, and I didn't really know if I should say that. I know most of you don't have priests, some of you have pastors maybe.
He's a very kind and caring man. He knows me well. I've confessed my sins to him. He knows me better than I know him, but I do know that even before becoming a priest he lived a very straight-laced life. Never smoked, never drank, that kind of thing. In 10 years with him as my priest, I've had to confess to him two brief illicit relationships I've had. With women, grown women. There was no adultery involved. I confess every sin of significance. If I ever had that abominable inclination towards children, he would know.
The incident I'm talking about happened at our church's Halloween party. I and some other guys had been there that morning to clean and set up for the party. Another adult at clean up told me he'd be at the party later, and I went to the party to talk to him about some real estate business.
When I first arrived at the party, walking in, the priest waved me over to sit with him. First thing he said after "hello" was "You came to a children's Halloween party?" The human brain works quick, and I said something like "Oh yeah, I love seeing the kids in their costumes." I mean, yeah, I like kids seeing kids in cute costumes on the same level any normal person might like it, so it wasn't a lie. I just thought maybe saying I was there for business might seem un-festive and maybe even crass. This may have been a mistake on my part. I've been to other kids events in the past, like Halloween and Easter egg hunts, but I go to socialize and have fellowship with the adults.
There's one thing I got wrong in the OP. I said I'd never said a word to any of his children, but I had forgotten one single exception with the boy. Many years ago, one Sunday morning during our church service, the priest's son was throwing a loud tantrum in the narthex, screaming and crying. I was in the narthex being an usher. I watched his mom try to calm him, and his mom's mom try, and others try, all in vain. He wouldn't stop, so his mom put him outside on the balcony, where he continued the tantrum.
I had a hunch that I might be able to calm him, and the hunch was actually based on the fact that I'd never spoken to him. I had the idea that he might feel awkward acting out in front of an adult stranger, because the other adults who unsuccessfully tried to calm him were the more gregarious types who I frequently see talking and playing with the kids after church. So when his mom walked back in, I asked her "Do you mind if I go out and speak with him?" She said "please do ", so I went outside and made small talk.* It worked. He calmed down, was happy and smiling, came back inside, and the mom and grandmother were grateful and thanked me.
I should add that that morning, we were having our service at a vacant retail office space. While I was talking to his son, it was right outside the front of the building which is made up of wall to wall, floor to ceiling plate glass windows. I was alone with the kid, but in plain view of about a dozen people, including his mom and grandmother, in the narthex.
I have no idea if the priest's wife ever told him about that, but I wonder if she did, that perhaps he got the wrong idea about me wanting to talk to his son alone outside the wall of clear glass windows?
But I don't really think he thinks I have any perverse "thing" for kids. The thing that insulted me most was when he said "but you can hang around us here", which seems to imply that he thinks that I want to glom onto his family, as if I'm some lonely loser or something. He knows my immediate family is all deceased, but I'm an uncle and a great uncle, and my nephews and nieces and I have always gotten along great our entire lives, and always spend time together throughout the year.
I'm going to talk with him next week. I really do appreciate everyone's input, especially the part about parents wanting to be protective. I never had children, but I have a beautiful doggie that I love, and if anyone ever tried to harm it, it would be better if a millstone were tied around their neck...
* This was in January. During the small talk I asked him what he got for Christmas. He said all he got was a tomato. A single tomato. I suspect this isn't the whole truth, but if it is, I'm afraid I'm going to have to have a second talk with my priest and his wife about how Santa Claus is supposed to work.
Yes I know over the course of human history living out life as a bachelor is abnormal, i.e., not the norm. I hear in real life and online how the vast majority of men want to find a mate. I just don't have that drive. I won't go into the deep-seated reasons, but a superficial reason is a personal defect in me - I'm selfish. Selfish with my time, my energy, my money, etc. Living alone, I do what I want, when I want. No discussion with anyone, no negotiations, no compromises. If I wake up at 3:00 a.m. in the mood to make Beef Wellington, no one will bother me about it, and I won't be bothering anyone.Of course not since you are batchelor yourself. And I don't think it's a universal thing by any means. But it does with many put one in the oddball category as far as human assessment goes.
Yes, moms are very protective. If I'm out in the woods and encounter a grizzly bear, I'd rather it be a male bear than a female bear.I think women can tent to be more leery of such. And that's what it comes down to in most cases I think. Not a full on he must be blank judgment. But perhaps a tad wondering and a tad leery. He's most likely not, but better safe than sorry.
I have to agree with this. It does seem like your priest is weirded out by your past interest in kids' activities. And there's often a stigma attached to being an unmarried man, especially if you request to be included in children's events or family events. I would let this go and just not bring it up. Don't try to get too close to the priest's family or ask to tag along to events outside of church anymore. Their hackles are up, and it's best to respect those self-defense mechanisms, even if you don't understand them.I understand why he would respond the way he did even more so now knowing that he is a priest.
For what it's worth, here is my advice on talking to him about it. Just let it go.
Unless it's eating at you and you're planning on telling him something along the lines of "I want to clear up any perception that I'm trying to gain access to your, or anyone else's, children. I completely understand and respect the boundaries you set, and I want to apologize if I ever made you or anyone in your family feel uncomfortable".
Almost anything else you say besides that is going to send up red flags that you are, or are becoming, obsessed with your priest and/or his family.
That being said, how would you feel if your relationship with you priest never progressed beyond what it is currently? What do you hope to get from this planned conversation? Pretend you have a big red "Easy Button" that you could press, and your relationship instantly became ideal to whatever you have in mind. What would that look like to you?
It is. I didn't get angry, I'm not angry now, but I feel insulted and indignant.Unless it's eating at you...
Problem is, I don't feel it's my responsibility to clear up his baseless perception, if he has one, because I feel I did nothing to create that kind of perception....and you're planning on telling him something along the lines of "I want to clear up any perception that I'm trying to gain access to your, or anyone else's, children.
Of course I will respect his boundaries, but I'm not going to apologize for asking to watch a sporting event open to the general public.I completely understand and respect the boundaries you set, and I want to apologize if I ever made you or anyone in your family feel uncomfortable".
Perhaps, but I want to defend myself to him, and to understand why he said what he said.Almost anything else you say besides that is going to send up red flags that you are, or are becoming, obsessed with your priest and/or his family.
I want to understand what he was thinking when he said what he said.That being said, how would you feel if your relationship with you priest never progressed beyond what it is currently? What do you hope to get from this planned conversation?
That he can give me an explanation which excludes the idea that he thinks I'm some kind of creep.Pretend you have a big red "Easy Button" that you could press, and your relationship instantly became ideal to whatever you have in mind. What would that look like to you?
Yeah but if they ask to watch kids one definitely might.but personally, if I hear a man's a bachelor, I don't automatically go to "I wonder if he's a pedophile".
I relate. I think in my case autism played a role in it early on at least. But whatever the case I'm a solitary person. I like my freedom. I do like being around others, like at church. But I'm never completely comfortable with it.Yes I know over the course of human history living out life as a bachelor is abnormal, i.e., not the norm. I hear in real life and online how the vast majority of men want to find a mate. I just don't have that drive. I won't go into the deep-seated reasons, but a superficial reason is a personal defect in me - I'm selfish. Selfish with my time, my energy, my money, etc. Living alone, I do what I want, when I want. No discussion with anyone, no negotiations, no compromises. If I wake up at 3:00 a.m. in the mood to make Beef Wellington, no one will bother me about it, and I won't be bothering anyone.
True.Yes, moms are very protective. If I'm out in the woods and encounter a grizzly bear, I'd rather it be a male bear than a female bear.
Yes, those were my exact words. "Father, I'm asking you to let me watch kids." My exact words.Yeah but if they ask to watch kids one definitely might.
I can appreciate that. But many folks have set views about people they don’t consider normal.but I feel insulted and indignant.
My apologies. My post didn’t sound as judgemental and preachy in my head.Yes, those were my exact words. "Father, I'm asking you to let me watch kids." My exact words.
Obviously you've missed some posts in this thread.
I don't think it was preachy, just a tad inaccurate given what I've said about youth sports in the thread.My apologies. My post didn’t sound as judgemental and preachy in my head.
America's fine, thanks. The U.K. would be in a much better state if it did use people's lifestyles as a reason to think the worst of them.I can appreciate that. But many folks have set views about people they don’t consider normal.
America would be in a much better state if people didn’t use people’s life styles as a reason to think the worst of them.
Yeah, but then that means it’s fine to think Batchelors might be diddlers?I don't think it was preachy, just a tad inaccurate given what I've said about youth sports in the thread.
America's fine, thanks. The U.K. would be in a much better state if it did use people's lifestyles as a reason to think the worst of them.
That’s assuming an awful lot. This thread has just become a gossip fest at this point. The best that Chesterton can do is speak with his priest. It’s gone from thoughts of pedophilia to Christian discrimination at this point. In other words, a bunch of mudslinging. Nobody knows.Yeah, but then that means it’s fine to think Batchelors might be diddlers?
Is that really a sign of a healthy society? This whole thread is discussing how unfair it is that this associate of yours was acting weird around you because (probably) you are an older unattached male.
I have no doubt that as a pastor he probably reckons you are gay and therefore a threat to kids. As you have stated you haven’t done anything you think of as weird so it likely this pastor is prejudiced against you for the way you are i.e. unattached male of a certain age.
Welcome to being unfairly discriminated against by Christians I guess?
That doesn't follow. It means it's fine to think diddlers are diddlers.Yeah, but then that means it’s fine to think Batchelors might be diddlers?
You're obviously making blind posts which is annoying because I have to repeat things I've already said. I've mentioned that I've embarrassingly confessed to him two sexual affairs with adult women, and that if I were cursed with the unnatural attraction to children, he would already know about that, too.I have no doubt that as a pastor he probably reckons you are gay and therefore a threat to kids.
You do what you feel you need to do, but at the very least, don't go into the conversation with an attitude that you are owed an explanation, or especially an apology. I think most people in this thread have given very good explanations of why the priest may have gotten some creepy vibes from asking about watching his child play sports. Either way, I wish you luck in your endeavor and hope everything gets cleared up between the two of you.It is. I didn't get angry, I'm not angry now, but I feel insulted and indignant.
Problem is, I don't feel it's my responsibility to clear up his baseless perception, if he has one, because I feel I did nothing to create that kind of perception.
Of course I will respect his boundaries, but I'm not going to apologize for asking to watch a sporting event open to the general public.
Perhaps, but I want to defend myself to him, and to understand why he said what he said.
I want to understand what he was thinking when he said what he said.
That he can give me an explanation which excludes the idea that he thinks I'm some kind of creep.
Ohhh I see. Maybe he sees it as more of a pastoral friendship and didn’t want to come off as overly friendly? If I’m making sense? I don’t know.@Isaac the Recluse @mourningdove~ @Michie @Jermayn @comana @RileyG @FireDragon76 @2PhiloVoid
Got more replies than expected. Thank you everyone for reading, and for your input. There's some info left out of the OP because I like to keep posts as short as possible, and because I didn't think it relevant, or because I thought it was too personal.
I apologize for this post being long, which I try to avoid usually, but it seems necessary here.
The man I'm talking about is my priest, and I didn't really know if I should say that. I know most of you don't have priests, some of you have pastors maybe.
He's a very kind and caring man. He knows me well. I've confessed my sins to him. He knows me better than I know him, but I do know that even before becoming a priest he lived a very straight-laced life. Never smoked, never drank, that kind of thing. In 10 years with him as my priest, I've had to confess to him two brief illicit relationships I've had. With women, grown women. There was no adultery involved. I confess every sin of significance. If I ever had that abominable inclination towards children, he would know.
The incident I'm talking about happened at our church's Halloween party. I and some other guys had been there that morning to clean and set up for the party. Another adult at clean up told me he'd be at the party later, and I went to the party to talk to him about some real estate business.
When I first arrived at the party, walking in, the priest waved me over to sit with him. First thing he said after "hello" was "You came to a children's Halloween party?" The human brain works quick, and I said something like "Oh yeah, I love seeing the kids in their costumes." I mean, yeah, I like kids seeing kids in cute costumes on the same level any normal person might like it, so it wasn't a lie. I just thought maybe saying I was there for business might seem un-festive and maybe even crass. This may have been a mistake on my part. I've been to other kids events in the past, like Halloween and Easter egg hunts, but I go to socialize and have fellowship with the adults.
There's one thing I got wrong in the OP. I said I'd never said a word to any of his children, but I had forgotten one single exception with the boy. Many years ago, one Sunday morning during our church service, the priest's son was throwing a loud tantrum in the narthex, screaming and crying. I was in the narthex being an usher. I watched his mom try to calm him, and his mom's mom try, and others try, all in vain. He wouldn't stop, so his mom put him outside on the balcony, where he continued the tantrum.
I had a hunch that I might be able to calm him, and the hunch was actually based on the fact that I'd never spoken to him. I had the idea that he might feel awkward acting out in front of an adult stranger, because the other adults who unsuccessfully tried to calm him were the more gregarious types who I frequently see talking and playing with the kids after church. So when his mom walked back in, I asked her "Do you mind if I go out and speak with him?" She said "please do ", so I went outside and made small talk.* It worked. He calmed down, was happy and smiling, came back inside, and the mom and grandmother were grateful and thanked me.
I should add that that morning, we were having our service at a vacant retail office space. While I was talking to his son, it was right outside the front of the building which is made up of wall to wall, floor to ceiling plate glass windows. I was alone with the kid, but in plain view of about a dozen people, including his mom and grandmother, in the narthex.
I have no idea if the priest's wife ever told him about that, but I wonder if she did, that perhaps he got the wrong idea about me wanting to talk to his son alone outside the wall of clear glass windows?
But I don't really think he thinks I have any perverse "thing" for kids. The thing that insulted me most was when he said "but you can hang around us here", which seems to imply that he thinks that I want to glom onto his family, as if I'm some lonely loser or something. He knows my immediate family is all deceased, but I'm an uncle and a great uncle, and my nephews and nieces and I have always gotten along great our entire lives, and always spend time together throughout the year.
I'm going to talk with him next week. I really do appreciate everyone's input, especially the part about parents wanting to be protective. I never had children, but I have a beautiful doggie that I love, and if anyone ever tried to harm it, it would be better if a millstone were tied around their neck...
* This was in January. During the small talk I asked him what he got for Christmas. He said all he got was a tomato. A single tomato. I suspect this isn't the whole truth, but if it is, I'm afraid I'm going to have to have a second talk with my priest and his wife about how Santa Claus is supposed to work.
Well, that’s not how forums work and I can post whatever I please.I'm asking you to not participate in this thread any more. If you want to take cheap shots at me in the News and Politics forums I'm fine with that. Please don't do it in a thread where I'm discussing something personal to me.
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