Am I Saved?

[netzone23]

First off let me state that I believe in God and I am a christian. I'm asking if I'm saved because some days I don't feel like I am. I work a full time job so some days I don't have time to read the bible or take time for God. I get home from work and I'm so tired and just go to bed. On my days off when I have time for God I feel like I'm saved, I read the bible worhsip God and I feel great. I know not spending time with God or reading the bible doesn't make me unsaved. If you're saved you'll have good fruit the bible says. Well I don't have any fruit good or bad that I can see. Then recently I read Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So it sounds like there will be "christians" who are doing "good" things in the name of Jesus yet are not saved. Being just good isn't enough for God and I don't know what more I can do to make sure I'm saved.

Also Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The last part of the verse "and there are few who find it". It sounds like not many people are going to be saved.

The last thing that really got me asking myself Am I saved was that I ran into a old church friend. I hadn't seen in him 12 years. 12 years ago he had a passion for God. He was going to school to become a pastor. 12 years later he is now a pastor and has a decent size church but he is now gay. After he told me this we started talking about if you are gay can you be saved? Which let to a very interesting discussion on that topic.

My view on the topic so that the bible is very clear on the topic about being gay. From reading the bible if your gay you won't go to heaven thats my view. My friend told me that Jesus saved us with grace so why would he turn away christians who love God with all their hearts, souls, and minds. And do good works in Jesus' name yet Jesus turns them away just because they are gay. My friend told me that makes no sense.

That lead me to this point will my friend go to heaven? I don't know...according to the bible no.
Am I doing enough for God? Will I be one of those people in Matthew 7:23 that get turned away? I truly believe in Jesus and have faith but is it enough? I am very confused at this point and I've been praying about it alot.

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[AvgJoe]

First off let me state that I believe in God and I am a christian. I'm asking if I'm saved because some days I don't feel like I am. I work a full time job so some days I don't have time to read the bible or take time for God. I get home from work and I'm so tired and just go to bed. On my days off when I have time for God I feel like I'm saved, I read the bible worhsip God and I feel great. I know not spending time with God or reading the bible doesn't make me unsaved. If you're saved you'll have good fruit the bible says. Well I don't have any fruit good or bad that I can see. Then recently I read Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So it sounds like there will be "christians" who are doing "good" things in the name of Jesus yet are not saved. Being just good isn't enough for God and I don't know what more I can do to make sure I'm saved.

Also Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The last part of the verse "and there are few who find it". It sounds like not many people are going to be saved.

The last thing that really got me asking myself Am I saved was that I ran into a old church friend. I hadn't seen in him 12 years. 12 years ago he had a passion for God. He was going to school to become a pastor. 12 years later he is now a pastor and has a decent size church but he is now gay. After he told me this we started talking about if you are gay can you be saved? Which let to a very interesting discussion on that topic.

My view on the topic so that the bible is very clear on the topic about being gay. From reading the bible if your gay you won't go to heaven thats my view. My friend told me that Jesus saved us with grace so why would he turn away christians who love God with all their hearts, souls, and minds. And do good works in Jesus' name yet Jesus turns them away just because they are gay. My friend told me that makes no sense.

That lead me to this point will my friend go to heaven? I don't know...according to the bible no.
Am I doing enough for God? Will I be one of those people in Matthew 7:23 that get turned away? I truly believe in Jesus and have faith but is it enough? I am very confused at this point and I've been praying about it alot.

What did Jesus say?

16) For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
​

Jesus says, to have everlasting life you have to believe in Him...and go to church, believe in Him...and do good deeds, believe in Him...and (insert any other action here). No, Jesus says if you believe in Him you will not perish and will have everlasting life...period. Then, you've got to trust Jesus to do what He said He will do...save you.

9) If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10) For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved. (Romans 10:9-10)​

 

[PollyJetix]

First off let me state that I believe in God and I am a christian. I'm asking if I'm saved because some days I don't feel like I am. I work a full time job so some days I don't have time to read the bible or take time for God. I get home from work and I'm so tired and just go to bed. On my days off when I have time for God I feel like I'm saved, I read the bible worhsip God and I feel great. I know not spending time with God or reading the bible doesn't make me unsaved. If you're saved you'll have good fruit the bible says. Well I don't have any fruit good or bad that I can see. Then recently I read Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So it sounds like there will be "christians" who are doing "good" things in the name of Jesus yet are not saved. Being just good isn't enough for God and I don't know what more I can do to make sure I'm saved.

Also Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The last part of the verse "and there are few who find it". It sounds like not many people are going to be saved.

The last thing that really got me asking myself Am I saved was that I ran into a old church friend. I hadn't seen in him 12 years. 12 years ago he had a passion for God. He was going to school to become a pastor. 12 years later he is now a pastor and has a decent size church but he is now gay. After he told me this we started talking about if you are gay can you be saved? Which let to a very interesting discussion on that topic.

My view on the topic so that the bible is very clear on the topic about being gay. From reading the bible if your gay you won't go to heaven thats my view. My friend told me that Jesus saved us with grace so why would he turn away christians who love God with all their hearts, souls, and minds. And do good works in Jesus' name yet Jesus turns them away just because they are gay. My friend told me that makes no sense.

That lead me to this point will my friend go to heaven? I don't know...according to the bible no.
Am I doing enough for God? Will I be one of those people in Matthew 7:23 that get turned away? I truly believe in Jesus and have faith but is it enough? I am very confused at this point and I've been praying about it alot.

The gay issue will settle for you, once you get the other one cleared up.
And that is, to draw near to God.
You feel out of touch with Him, because you aren't in love with Him.

When you fell in love, did it seem like something you had to do, to spend time with the one you loved?
Jesus said it's very dangerous to leave our first love.
It makes us lukewarm.

And lukewarmness won't get into heaven.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

First off let me state that I believe in God and I am a christian. I'm asking if I'm saved because some days I don't feel like I am. I work a full time job so some days I don't have time to read the bible or take time for God. I get home from work and I'm so tired and just go to bed. On my days off when I have time for God I feel like I'm saved, I read the bible worhsip God and I feel great. I know not spending time with God or reading the bible doesn't make me unsaved. If you're saved you'll have good fruit the bible says. Well I don't have any fruit good or bad that I can see. Then recently I read Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So it sounds like there will be "christians" who are doing "good" things in the name of Jesus yet are not saved. Being just good isn't enough for God and I don't know what more I can do to make sure I'm saved.

Also Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The last part of the verse "and there are few who find it". It sounds like not many people are going to be saved.

The last thing that really got me asking myself Am I saved was that I ran into a old church friend. I hadn't seen in him 12 years. 12 years ago he had a passion for God. He was going to school to become a pastor. 12 years later he is now a pastor and has a decent size church but he is now gay. After he told me this we started talking about if you are gay can you be saved? Which let to a very interesting discussion on that topic.

My view on the topic so that the bible is very clear on the topic about being gay. From reading the bible if your gay you won't go to heaven thats my view. My friend told me that Jesus saved us with grace so why would he turn away christians who love God with all their hearts, souls, and minds. And do good works in Jesus' name yet Jesus turns them away just because they are gay. My friend told me that makes no sense.

That lead me to this point will my friend go to heaven? I don't know...according to the bible no.
Am I doing enough for God? Will I be one of those people in Matthew 7:23 that get turned away? I truly believe in Jesus and have faith but is it enough? I am very confused at this point and I've been praying about it alot.

Saved / Not Saved is a question ONLY to God, never to human beings.

 

[7angels]

rom 10:9 tells us how we can tell if we are saved. it matters not what we feel but we act on faith. so don't worry about if you feel saved or not but believe it. Jesus died to give us all things but it is up to us to decide what we want to live in and also how prosperous we want to be because of Christ. living in sin whether gay or not will not keep you out of heaven in and of itself. but living in willful sin will keep God's promises difficult to receive. this is why so many people are living a life misery. Jesus has already died and made available all things necessary for the perfect life here on earth. it is our responsibility to grab hold of what Jesus has done for us. very few are willing to do this though. are you one?

God bless

 

[greenguzzi]

Salvation is a process, not an event. Sure, God may know the end from the beginning, but we are not God. So from our point of view salvation is a process. So no, you are not saved; you are being saved.

Will you complete the race? No human knows.
Have you decided to persevere? You already know the answer to that.
Can you change your mind? Yes you can, but that's your decision to make.

Don't get too bothered by the gay debate. Despite what you and others believe, homosexuality isn't mentioned in the Bible at all. Sure, there's some of verses that seem to talk about it, but just investigate the history of the debate. It's not what you think.

You might even be able to show me a Bible with the word "homosexual" in it. But that's just an awful translation; throw in in the trash now.
(Calling it a translation is almost too much.)

 

[Uber Genius]

Well I don't have any fruit good or bad that I can see. Then recently I read Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV

Firstly, many, maybe all Christians struggle with the same questions you have brought up.

Titus 3:3-7 says, "
For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by men and hating one another;but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life. The saying is sure."

Ephesians 2:6-8 says we saved by grace not as a result of works that no one should boast.

In fact over an over again we have been told of God's grace pouring his wrath onto a substitute who indeed pays a high price for our sins.

So your salvation is not predicated on maintaining good works as it never required them in the first place.


Read more: Transcript: Doctrine of Salvation (part 8) | Reasonable Faith

Being just good isn't enough for God and I don't know what more I can do to make sure I'm saved.

In Galatians 3 Paul has made a direct contrast between Faith and the Law. They are not mingled or conflated.

Those who rely on the Law are described as:

"Bewitched"

"Ignorant of how they received the Spirit"

"Foolish"

"Fleshly"

Those are hardly superlatives.

But we are called to maturity in Christ.

This is where you start to gain visible fruit. There is other fruit that is hard of one to trace but is still fruit.

Gal 5 19-22 should give you a sense of the fruit.

Paul says in 1 Cor. 3:10ff,

"
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise master builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds.11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.

That last verse is important. We have a calling to be mature in Christ. We are called to destroy Satan's kingdom and establish the kingdom of God. We are called to rule and reign with God over his creation on the future.

Your salvation is not insecure but your discipleship may have plateaued before you have fully matured in Christ.

Easy enough to fix. Put together a plan for Christian maturity that involves intellectual, emotional and spiritual development goals.

Participate in a local church body with real fellowship (sharing a meal, seeing a movie, hanging out by a fire pit smoking cigars) Not a place where people paint fake smiles on and shake hands of thirty seconds and check the. "Fellowship" box as completed for the week.

A church that has home groups or small men's groups would be helpful at gaining maturity.

From reading the bible if your gay you won't go to heaven thats my view.

So if after 20 years of ministry, healing, raising people from the dead, Paul struggled in Romans 7 "wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of sin and death," why think that if someone has not rid their life of sin at the time of death they are not going to heaven?

There is not one sinless Christian in the history of the Church! It misses the point.

Christ pay for our sons and the Holy Spirit leads us into maturity if we let him. I have Christians that struggle with a whole host of sins as do I even after 40 years of being a disciple. But you should see the changes lives around me as God, through the Holy Spirit pours out his goodness through me to the lost and downtrodden. God will use you and those struggling with homosexual desires.

Think again of the goal. Destroy Satan's Kingdom by casting out demons, healing the sick, caring for the weak, preaching the gospel to those who are far from God!

How the heck are we going o get those things done by living in accordance to the law? The law and sinless perfection do not produce radical lovers like Jesus who operate with power by listening to the Holy Spirit's direction.

Divorce yourself from those ideas as your first step in gaining maturity in Christ as an adopted Son of God.

 

[brianbe]

Firstly, many, maybe all Christians struggle with the same questions you have brought up.

Titus 3:3-7 says, "
For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by men and hating one another;but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life. The saying is sure."

Ephesians 2:6-8 says we saved by grace not as a result of works that no one should boast.

In fact over an over again we have been told of God's grace pouring his wrath onto a substitute who indeed pays a high price for our sins.

So your salvation is not predicated on maintaining good works as it never required them in the first place.


Read more: Transcript: Doctrine of Salvation (part 8) | Reasonable Faith


In Galatians 3 Paul has made a direct contrast between Faith and the Law. They are not mingled or conflated.

Those who rely on the Law are described as:

"Bewitched"

"Ignorant of how they received the Spirit"

"Foolish"

"Fleshly"

Those are hardly superlatives.

But we are called to maturity in Christ.

This is where you start to gain visible fruit. There is other fruit that is hard of one to trace but is still fruit.

Gal 5 19-22 should give you a sense of the fruit.

Paul says in 1 Cor. 3:10ff,

"
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise master builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds.11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.

That last verse is important. We have a calling to be mature in Christ. We are called to destroy Satan's kingdom and establish the kingdom of God. We are called to rule and reign with God over his creation on the future.

Your salvation is not insecure but your discipleship may have plateaued before you have fully matured in Christ.

Easy enough to fix. Put together a plan for Christian maturity that involves intellectual, emotional and spiritual development goals.

Participate in a local church body with real fellowship (sharing a meal, seeing a movie, hanging out by a fire pit smoking cigars) Not a place where people paint fake smiles on and shake hands of thirty seconds and check the. "Fellowship" box as completed for the week.

A church that has home groups or small men's groups would be helpful at gaining maturity.



So if after 20 years of ministry, healing, raising people from the dead, Paul struggled in Romans 7 "wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of sin and death," why think that if someone has not rid their life of sin at the time of death they are not going to heaven?

There is not one sinless Christian in the history of the Church! It misses the point.

Christ pay for our sons and the Holy Spirit leads us into maturity if we let him. I have Christians that struggle with a whole host of sins as do I even after 40 years of being a disciple. But you should see the changes lives around me as God, through the Holy Spirit pours out his goodness through me to the lost and downtrodden. God will use you and those struggling with homosexual desires.

Think again of the goal. Destroy Satan's Kingdom by casting out demons, healing the sick, caring for the weak, preaching the gospel to those who are far from God!

How the heck are we going o get those things done by living in accordance to the law? The law and sinless perfection do not produce radical lovers like Jesus who operate with power by listening to the Holy Spirit's direction.

Divorce yourself from those ideas as your first step in gaining maturity in Christ as an adopted Son of God.

Is the law
the word of God
or is it the word of men?

 

[EmSw]

Is the law
the word of God
or is it the word of men?

I wonder that too. Also, is Jesus the word of God? If so, when did Jesus become obsolete and not for man?

 

[Uber Genius]

Is the law
the word of God
or is it the word of men?

Do you still beat you wife? Yes or no?

This is known as a trick question or more formally a false dilemma (either or fallacy). It works by suggesting there are only 2 option (inferences that explain the data).

Now could it be the case that God worked with Adam one way before the fall and another after the fall?

Did God work the same way with all the nations both before Babel and after?

Similarly, God chosen one people and a weak, limited. Law to restrain that one people from sin. But that is not the calling of NT disciples is it. We are called to destroy Satan's kingdom and usher in God's goodness and his rule and reign wherever we go. Healing the sick, casting out demons, preaching the gospel, caring for the weak and oppressed.

We are called to rule and reign with Jesus in the future. These are radically different goals then we find in God's strategy with the Jews in the OT.

So yes the law was God's way of restraining evil in one people. It didn't work! Not because of God but because of man. Man is now able to follow the spirit who testifies of a greater law that is written in every true Christian's heart.

Hope this helps. God bless you.

 

[EmSw]

Do you still beat you wife? Yes or no?

As always, every time you curse God, worship the devil, sacrifice a baby, and commit suicide.

This is known as a trick question or more formally a false dilemma (either or fallacy). It works by suggesting there are only 2 option (inferences that explain the data).

It's not a trick question. It's an assumption on your part.

Now could it be the case that God worked with Adam one way before the fall and another after the fall?

Did God work the same way with all the nations both before Babel and after?

Either way, God wanted obedience.

So you are suggesting God changes. If one way God works with people won't work, He finds another, right? Perhaps, He really doesn't know how to work with people.

Similarly, God chosen one people and a weak, limited. Law to restrain that one people from sin. But that is not the calling of NT disciples is it. We are called to destroy Satan's kingdom and usher in God's goodness and his rule and reign wherever we go. Healing the sick, casting out demons, preaching the gospel, caring for the weak and oppressed.

Why call the law weak? The law is God's very words, the truth. Jesus is the word of God, which includes the law. Why call Jesus weak and limited?

How will you do all those 'new testament' things if you continue to live in sin? If sin has power over you, how will you destroy it? Is this not Satan's kingdom against itself?

As far as healing the sick and so on, have you not read these words of Jesus in Matthew 7?

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Doing all those 'new testament' things profit you nothing if you practice lawlessness.

So yes the law was God's way of restraining evil in one people. It didn't work! Not because of God but because of man. Man is now able to follow the spirit who testifies of a greater law that is written in every true Christian's heart.

So, does following the Spirit restrain evil? If so, why do so many Christians continually sin?

Why is God's law written on your heart? Just to show others? To have a boastful heart?

NO! It is written on a person's heart to keep it and obey it, that you should not sin against God. But even those with the law written on their hearts are not saved.

Romans 2
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

Hope this helps. God bless you.

It helps when you know what the word says.

 

[Uber Genius]

So you are suggesting God changes. If one way God works with people won't work, He finds another, right? Perhaps, He really doesn't know how to work with people.

Have you read the Old Testament?

Does he not change how he relates to Adam and Eve after the fall?

Does he not divide the nations into 70 and appoint them to be ruled by false gods and only Israel is ruled by him?

Did he not treat the Northern Kingdom differently after the Assyrian exile?

Did he not treat the Southern Kingdom differently after the Babylonian captivity?

BTW God working with different people differently over time has absolutely nothing to do with impassibility.

You should look that up before you continue to mock people (despite your lack of theological, Biblical or rhetorical background.

Slippery...

You really enjoy putting words in people's mouths.

When you misrepresent people's statements in order to make hasty generalizations you attempt to manipulate people rather than persuade with the rationality of your argument. Is that Christ's method...WWJM who would Jesus manipulate?

Why call the law weak?

Lol. Every hear of a guy named Paul?

Romans 8: 2ff
"
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

So, does following the Spirit restrain evil? If so, why do so many Christians continually sin?

Are you really ignorant of free will? Why would we be encouraged to follow the spirit if Paul and Jesus knew it happened automatically? Do you rely not know why people sin?

 

[EmSw]

Have you read the Old Testament?

Do you mean this little gem?

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I do not change; therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

And yet, you tell me differently, as below.

Does he not change how he relates to Adam and Eve after the fall?

Does he not divide the nations into 70 and appoint them to be ruled by false gods and only Israel is ruled by him?

Did he not treat the Northern Kingdom differently after the Assyrian exile?

Did he not treat the Southern Kingdom differently after the Babylonian captivity?

All these examples you provided deal with sin. God deals the same with sin. Care to guess what it is?

Do you not see that it is man who changes?

BTW God working with different people differently over time has absolutely nothing to do with impassibility.

Working differently with people does not necessitate change with God.

You should look that up before you continue to mock people (despite your lack of theological, Biblical or rhetorical background.

I'm sorry if you think it's mocking you; that's not my intention.

However, what do you think will happen to you if you say no to God, harden your heart against Him, and do not listen and obey Him? Will it be any different than what happened to the Egyptian Pharaoh?

Slippery...

You really enjoy putting words in people's mouths.

Give me those perceived words and I'll trash them.

When you misrepresent people's statements in order to make hasty generalizations you attempt to manipulate people rather than persuade with the rationality of your argument. Is that Christ's method...WWJM who would Jesus manipulate?

Manipulate is a pretty strong word. If I say to you, if you love Jesus, keep His commandments, is that manipulation to you? Am I manipulating you to love Him?

Lol. Every hear of a guy named Paul?

Where did the man Paul get that the law was weak? I don't find it from the mouth of the Lord. Did God ever say His law was weak? Is this weak?

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commands and live, And my law as the apple of your eye.

Ezekiel 18:19
Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live.

Ezekiel 33:19
But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it.

It seems to me the law gives life; is that weak to you? Why didn't Paul know of these verses?

And by the way, God NEVER said man couldn't keep His law. So please don't use this weak argument.

Romans 8: 2ff
"
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

What couldn't the law do? Many, many were saved by observing the law.

Are you really ignorant of free will? Why would we be encouraged to follow the spirit if Paul and Jesus knew it happened automatically? Do you rely not know why people sin?

I believe in free-will, perhaps, more than you do? Ask any Reformed person on this forum who has debated me.

Sure, I know why people sin, and it's not the law. Maybe you should read James and find out why.

James 1
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Do you see the truth now? Do you see what gives birth to sin?

 

[Uber Genius]

Do you mean this little gem?

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I do not change; therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

And yet, you tell me differently, as below.



All these examples you provided deal with sin. God deals the same with sin. Care to guess what it is?

Do you not see that it is man who changes?



Working differently with people does not necessitate change with God.



I'm sorry if you think it's mocking you; that's not my intention.

However, what do you think will happen to you if you say no to God, harden your heart against Him, and do not listen and obey Him? Will it be any different than what happened to the Egyptian Pharaoh?



Give me those perceived words and I'll trash them.



Manipulate is a pretty strong word. If I say to you, if you love Jesus, keep His commandments, is that manipulation to you? Am I manipulating you to love Him?



Where did the man Paul get that the law was weak? I don't find it from the mouth of the Lord. Did God ever say His law was weak? Is this weak?

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commands and live, And my law as the apple of your eye.

Ezekiel 18:19
Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live.

Ezekiel 33:19
But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it.

It seems to me the law gives life; is that weak to you? Why didn't Paul know of these verses?

And by the way, God NEVER said man couldn't keep His law. So please don't use this weak argument.



What couldn't the law do? Many, many were saved by observing the law.



I believe in free-will, perhaps, more than you do? Ask any Reformed person on this forum who has debated me.

Sure, I know why people sin, and it's not the law. Maybe you should read James and find out why.

James 1
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Do you see the truth now? Do you see what gives birth to sin?

It is both unfortunate and yet common out here to find people without any exegetical or hermeneutical background lifting bumper-sticker phrases out of context and making sweeping generalizations by cherry-picking the data.


Verses such as Genesis 6:6, “The LORD was grieved that He had made man on the earth, and His heart was filled with pain.” Also, Exodus 32:14proclaims, “Then the LORD relented and did not bring on His people the disaster He had threatened.” These verses speak of the Lord “repenting” or “relenting” of something and seem to contradict the doctrine of God’s immutability.

Another passage that is often used to show that God changes His mind is the story of Jonah. Through His prophet, God had told Nineveh He would destroy the city in forty days (Jonah 3:4). However, Nineveh repented of their sin (verses 5–9). In response to the Assyrians’ repentance, God relented: “He had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction He had threatened” (verse 10).

Is God a liar? Nineveh wasn't destroyed.

Is God impassible (look it up)? He keeps changing his mind.

Does he not have foreknowledge? Or sovereignty? He must not otherwise how could he ever, "repent or relent!"

Hebrew and Greek have a rich lexical range and just like in English, their authors are free to use figurative language, anthropomorphic in the case of repenting.

I highly recommend reading a book like Gordon Fee's "How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth."

instead of trying to understand what the original authors was trying to communicate to the original audience, you are just eisogeting (again, look up that word), and making things up that the original audiences would fine laughable if it weren't so incoherent.

 

[EmSw]

It is both unfortunate and yet community n out here to find people without any exegetical or hermeneutical background lifting bumper-sticker phrases out of context and making sweeping generalizations by cherry-picking the data.

And, is it a 'exegetical or hermeneutical background' that Jesus requires? Is that your crutch? It doesn't take any 'exegetical or hermeneutical background' to understand that when God says He doesn't change, that He actually doesn't change.

Don't let much learning make you mad.

 

[Late Apex]

First off let me state that I believe in God and I am a christian. I'm asking if I'm saved because some days I don't feel like I am. I work a full time job so some days I don't have time to read the bible or take time for God. I get home from work and I'm so tired and just go to bed. On my days off when I have time for God I feel like I'm saved, I read the bible worhsip God and I feel great. I know not spending time with God or reading the bible doesn't make me unsaved. If you're saved you'll have good fruit the bible says. Well I don't have any fruit good or bad that I can see. Then recently I read Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So it sounds like there will be "christians" who are doing "good" things in the name of Jesus yet are not saved. Being just good isn't enough for God and I don't know what more I can do to make sure I'm saved.

Also Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The last part of the verse "and there are few who find it". It sounds like not many people are going to be saved.

The last thing that really got me asking myself Am I saved was that I ran into a old church friend. I hadn't seen in him 12 years. 12 years ago he had a passion for God. He was going to school to become a pastor. 12 years later he is now a pastor and has a decent size church but he is now gay. After he told me this we started talking about if you are gay can you be saved? Which let to a very interesting discussion on that topic.

My view on the topic so that the bible is very clear on the topic about being gay. From reading the bible if your gay you won't go to heaven thats my view. My friend told me that Jesus saved us with grace so why would he turn away christians who love God with all their hearts, souls, and minds. And do good works in Jesus' name yet Jesus turns them away just because they are gay. My friend told me that makes no sense.

That lead me to this point will my friend go to heaven? I don't know...according to the bible no.
Am I doing enough for God? Will I be one of those people in Matthew 7:23 that get turned away? I truly believe in Jesus and have faith but is it enough? I am very confused at this point and I've been praying about it alot.

I don't know who will be saved and who will not. I am no mans judge. However, given the simple fact that your heart is pricked and you have reached out for help here tells me that God has started a work in your heart. IMO.

Do you feel worthless, helpless? Do you feel like there is nothing you can do to earn salvation? Do you feel that you are unworthy and sinful, not able to offer anything to God? Good! Because Jesus Christ came to heal the sick, not the ones who feel like they are fine. The way up is down and the way down is up.

Mark 2:
[17] When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.