Am I not good enough to be a Christian?

BlackSabbath · Jan 3, 2018

JoeP222w said:
No one is "good enough". If anyone was "good enough" there would be no gospel (good news). God saves by His grace alone, by faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone. No one is good, no not one. [Romans 3:10-12, Ephesians 2:8-10]. If people can be "good" than they have no need of the Savior , Jesus Christ.

Who told you that you are innocent, or that anyone is innocent? That is not what the Bible teaches.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

False dichotomy. The Bible is not anti-science, nor anti-rationality nor are those things mutually exclusive.

Not what the Bible teaches. No one believes in God from birth. Jesus said you must be born again.

Romans 1:18-20, 3:10-12, John 3]

Then you are in disagreement with the Bible and therefore God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, (10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Well see, in many of experiences with gay people and I look at the civil rights protests taking place now, I almost see how homosexuality is looked at as wrong in the bible. I don't altogether think it is. There are better sex contraceptives and as well, it is a different world now then back then. I understand I believe why it says to wait until marriage though, thus I am undecided. I think partially it is because of women and perhaps it is not adultery but I understand how it could lead to problems. Likewise, if you look at the old testament, they questioned things all the time. I see it now,and back thrn, the Jews were always quite rebellious, lol

BlackSabbath · Jan 3, 2018

Kristen Davis said:
Well we all make mistakes sometimes but most of how your feeling made indicate you are not yet ready to pursue a relationship with God because you need more time to learn about yourself before submitting to a higher power. If this is what is going on then you need to do so and then you can enter the religion at a latter date in time and feel inclined to wait until marriage to have sex or whatever you plan to do right in the eyes in the lord.

I have already had sex though?

I accept God as a higher power, I don't question God. But I see God as almost this universal framework by which the universe is goverened or works as. The old testament is relatively different from the new one, and the Jews questioned authority all of the time.

I am almost of the mind, I partially agree with the Jews still, though I do not altogether believe in the Torah, but likewise I think Jesus was thr messiah, and wore the crown of thorns for us.

But likewise, almost think it is hypocritical a bit, if one accepta or believes in God entirely, who is it to shun or be oposed might just be that to others? I understand though, Jesus is our only way on earth in a humanly form how to best understand or have a relationship with God. Jesus was Jewish though as well...

BlackSabbath · Jan 3, 2018

Liza B. said:
Here's what I think, reading through these posts, and the posts you made yesterday, I think it was. I think you're probably highly creative, and you have a perception that you shouldn't be or can't be in Christianity. That you have to somehow be linear or have all the answers figured out to be Christian.

That is not so. I too am a pretty creative person, in a creative field. We generally like questions better than answers. Is that fair enough?

For now, just answer this: Who is God to you? Who is Jesus Christ? If you have that answered, and solidly, you can be Christian. You have to come to some other pretty solid answers in time; but on other questions, no. I consider myself a Bible-believing Christian, and even there pretty Scriptural. But it would probably surprise some people even in my church the things I'm able to hold "loosely" in my hands, right? I don't need the answers. I'm more intrigued by the questions.

I've leave you with one of my very favorite non-Biblical quotes about Christianity from G.K. Chesterton:
“The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits.”

Well, it seems to me that it is interperted as that mamy of our experiences are and suffering are all "sins" and thus it is all our fault, but I do not predominately agree.

Some people are obviously more sinful then others and having to take personal blame or responsibility for other's wrong doing does not seem fair to me. It makes me think that, we're supposed to stay in the dark and take everything as our own personal short coming. I've studied politics a bit and I just don't see that as really being such a simple cut and dry answer.

It sort of puts the Christian into a position of passivity to accept whatever those around you decide is whatever treatment or punishment is fair. That's what I mean, in the old testament, they did things all the time. I know it was supposed to stop because "well, they were the jews and the jews do not understand anymore" but likewise Christians being fed to the lion, is that really relevant or the case for today's world? I mean, Moses freed his people from opression and slavery, someone had to do something. I mean maybe he could himself as innocent or as pure as those who had not taken action and thus did not have to deal with the burden on their consciousness

I think Jesus is thr Messian and one of the main points he made was that the bible should be open to everyone, and that the Jews shouldn't only make it about themselves which partially is what led to their downfall.

I think Jesus was the messiah, and he was our supposed king who wore the crown of thorns because, well, we're not all equally sinners. For those who really understand or want peace, then i think we don't deserve this. But it's true, we are all flawed and imperfect or prone sin.

But that itself, I even think the conception of sin itself is complicated in nature. I think obviously it's murder, greed, lust for power, amongst other things. But it is also because there are so many bad people in the world who,mean to tale advantage of those who are undeserving of such treatment and punishment. I think in a sense in some ways, Jesus really was supppsed to be the king, but it's only until then that we could be freed from this predicament. It is true though, in spirit Jesus rules and is our king.

BlackSabbath · Jan 3, 2018

Another Lazarus said:
No, to be a christian is not a matter of bodily survival. But to choose to live in God means to obey God and defend the truth of God.

The early church was fed to lions, they were free to deny their faith and save their lives, but they choosed to defend the truth and obey God.

God told us the story of the poor Lazarus waiting to receive mercy from the Rich man's table, Lazarus accepts his fate and God could use his life for His purpose to find out the heart of the people. So this is the total obedience to God.

Jesus could run away from Gethsemane garden as he knew the people would ambush and arrest Him but He didnt, He faced them without fear of death.

Those are all happenstance and particular to the events that took place back then though. The lions, would or could they kill or eat all those people being sacrificed? The one who stood up and resisted surely would, but then, did he not sacrifice himself due to his faith, and Jesus too, sacrificed himself equally, because of his faith?

But if others are in disobrdidnce to God, who is to say then what actions are more puritan in their stature?

Jeshu · Jan 3, 2018

BlackSabbath said:
........

I searched for meaning for years, feeling so disheartened by the world around me, then like "whoooaaa outerspace" the creators were Jewish suposedly, and I might be as well oddly enough. I,want to fly over the plains of Africa, woosh! Seriously, depression.

With Jesus all of this is not only possible He brings it alive within you! the focus must be Jesus not anyone else, not ourselves either. See we have to loose ourselves useless and find ourselves true and righteous in Christ - that is what new birth is all about. The secret is to know New Birth happens daily and is never an one off. Furthermore i had to shed my religious skin before i could even stop slithering like a snake. it is about loving true not religious expectations.

So yes the spirit of religion captivates and demands conformity - haven't you heard her voice so sweetly beckoning slavery? - but faith in God's love through Christ sets us free - just as Christ promised all these years ago. Run that past your life all the time - am i free to love true or captive to must do wrong - and see the difference between faith in Jesus and religion in real life.

Peace.

mozo41 · Jan 3, 2018

Jeshu said:
With Jesus all of this is not only possible He brings it alive within you! the focus must be Jesus not anyone else, not ourselves either. See we have to loose ourselves useless and find ourselves true and righteous in Christ - that is what new birth is all about. The secret is to know New Birth happens daily and is never an one off. Furthermore i had to shed my religious skin before i could even stop slithering like a snake. it is about loving true not religious expectations.

So yes the spirit of religion captivates and demands conformity - haven't you heard her voice so sweetly beckoning slavery? - but faith in God's love through Christ sets us free - just as Christ promised all these years ago. Run that past your life all the time - am i free to love true or captive to must do wrong - and see the difference between faith in Jesus and religion in real life.

Peace.

have you considered why religion in picture is a crooked path of a serpent in relation to this path Jesus made straight ...

longwait · Jan 3, 2018

BlackSabbath said:
I don't honestly know if I am good enough, I don't know if it is becaue of how I have been socially conditoned, but sometimes I feel it is hard for me to, be peaceful. I think I, but the world has made me cynical, jaded at such notions and I even brought out a dark side to me I never knew existed, or I have experienced dark things in the world that has weighed on my soul and perhaps stolen my innocence and I do not know if it's me or the world sometimes. Another thing too, living a life on the sidelines is difficult for me sometimes and expecting to turn the other cheek. I confess, I wonder if I am truly a gentile at times as well, in however way that was concieved.

I feel guilty because after spending lots of time studying and searching for answers, I found myself experiencing at best I would "illumination" and I see how much of, the bible is actually true and it makes sense to me. I generally know what it is about mostly, I think.

I weigh thr bible against things like science or rationality, and even athiesm and I just cannot help thinking that it's actually true. I really have always believed, in God and I see much of rest of the world as lost or even dammed. I find a bit more solace or comfront now in this fact, but it makes me feel sad and backwards. I believe very strongly in God and what the bible stands for.

There's some things though, I think things like sex before marriage is alright and I think it is fine to express oneself or whatever. Well, I think much of the sadness comes from wanting to live a better world at times. Since seeing the "light" I find it almost unbearable at times. I realize I am a broken person looking for shelter I feel, in the "Lord's temple" perhaps?

Its after you recognise and acknowledge your own errors and then rectify them that you become a true and better christian.

mathinspiration · Jan 3, 2018

Everyone feels that way.

mozo41 · Jan 4, 2018

mathinspiration said:
Everyone feels that way.

a sense of lack where all things become of gain ...

MonstersvsMartyrs · Jan 4, 2018

Romans 7

Liza B. · Jan 4, 2018

BlackSabbath said:
Well, it seems to me that it is interperted as that mamy of our experiences are and suffering are all "sins" and thus it is all our fault, but I do not predominately agree.

Some people are obviously more sinful then others and having to take personal blame or responsibility for other's wrong doing does not seem fair to me. It makes me think that, we're supposed to stay in the dark and take everything as our own personal short coming. I've studied politics a bit and I just don't see that as really being such a simple cut and dry answer.

It sort of puts the Christian into a position of passivity to accept whatever those around you decide is whatever treatment or punishment is fair. That's what I mean, in the old testament, they did things all the time. I know it was supposed to stop because "well, they were the jews and the jews do not understand anymore" but likewise Christians being fed to the lion, is that really relevant or the case for today's world? I mean, Moses freed his people from opression and slavery, someone had to do something. I mean maybe he could himself as innocent or as pure as those who had not taken action and thus did not have to deal with the burden on their consciousness

I think Jesus is thr Messian and one of the main points he made was that the bible should be open to everyone, and that the Jews shouldn't only make it about themselves which partially is what led to their downfall.

I think Jesus was the messiah, and he was our supposed king who wore the crown of thorns because, well, we're not all equally sinners. For those who really understand or want peace, then i think we don't deserve this. But it's true, we are all flawed and imperfect or prone sin.

But that itself, I even think the conception of sin itself is complicated in nature. I think obviously it's murder, greed, lust for power, amongst other things. But it is also because there are so many bad people in the world who,mean to tale advantage of those who are undeserving of such treatment and punishment. I think in a sense in some ways, Jesus really was supppsed to be the king, but it's only until then that we could be freed from this predicament. It is true though, in spirit Jesus rules and is our king.

You are looking at sin through the world's eyes. You are looking at sin as: some people are good, and some people are bad. Some are better, and some are worse.

God doesn't look at it that way. God's measure is: HOLY. He is holy. You are not. Are you? Instead of looking around and wondering who is better and not better--are you holy? God is so perfect and holy He cannot be around sin. That is His nature. He cannot abide it.

Once humanity fell we were doomed. We were equally doomed. Nice people, peaceful people, kind people, murdering people, raping people, stealing people. Because none of us are HOLY. What could God do about that? Well, He sent Jesus, to take on our sin FOR us. To pay the penalty for us, to serve the sentence, so to speak. Not so we could be perfect in this life. But so that we could have holiness restored at some point.

That is not to say that all sin is equal. Not all sin is equal. God will reward and will condemn according to our deeds--otherwise, He is not a fair judge. And He is fair. But all sin condemns. I'm going to say that again. Not all sin is equal, but all sin condemns.

I encourage you to get yourself a very good Bible and a good study guide. Ask if you'd like guidance!

JoeP222w · Jan 4, 2018

BlackSabbath said:
Well see, in many of experiences with gay people and I look at the civil rights protests taking place now, I almost see how homosexuality is looked at as wrong in the bible.

Experiences do not define truth.

Homosexuality is not about civil rights, it never has been. It is about super rights. Heterosexuals do not have the right to marry the same gender person. Homosexuals demand that they alone have the right to marry the same gender, exclusive to homosexuality. That would be a super right, not equal rights.

God's truth is not dependent on whether or not sinful man agrees with it. God's truth is based in His holiness and His perfect standard. Man's view has no effect whatsoever on the truth of God.

BlackSabbath said:
There are better sex contraceptives and as well, it is a different world now then back then.

Not sure what you are referring to here. The Bible does not ban contraceptives.

BlackSabbath said:
I understand I believe why it says to wait until marriage though, thus I am undecided. I think partially it is because of women and perhaps it is not adultery but I understand how it could lead to problems. Likewise, if you look at the old testament, they questioned things all the time. I see it now,and back thrn, the Jews were always quite rebellious, lol

I don't follow the rest of your comment or line of thought you are trying to put forward here.

Liza B. · Jan 4, 2018

BlackSabbath said:
Well see, in many of experiences with gay people and I look at the civil rights protests taking place now, I almost see how homosexuality is looked at as wrong in the bible. I don't altogether think it is. There are better sex contraceptives and as well, it is a different world now then back then. I understand I believe why it says to wait until marriage though, thus I am undecided. I think partially it is because of women and perhaps it is not adultery but I understand how it could lead to problems. Likewise, if you look at the old testament, they questioned things all the time. I see it now,and back thrn, the Jews were always quite rebellious, lol

You mention "the Jews" a lot.

????

Liza B. · Jan 4, 2018

BlackSabbath said:
Well see, in many of experiences with gay people and I look at the civil rights protests taking place now, I almost see how homosexuality is looked at as wrong in the bible. I don't altogether think it is. There are better sex contraceptives and as well, it is a different world now then back then.

Homosexuality is wrong because it is a twisting of God's plan. It is not about emotion. Or lust. Or even love. It is about taking what God meant for good and twisting it into something else. It doesn't mean that gay people are any worse off than the rest of us sinners. But it's not an endorsable sin any more than any other sin is endorsable. We don't get to say it's all right just because it's "who you love".

BlackSabbath · Jan 4, 2018

Liza B. said:
You mention "the Jews" a lot.

????

What? Oh no, I am just stating the difference between the old and new testament. Christianity and Judaism are different. I am not on the far right or anything [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

BlackSabbath · Jan 4, 2018

Liza B. said:
Homosexuality is wrong because it is a twisting of God's plan. It is not about emotion. Or lust. Or even love. It is about taking what God meant for good and twisting it into something else. It doesn't mean that gay people are any worse off than the rest of us sinners. But it's not an endorsable sin any more than any other sin is endorsable. We don't get to say it's all right just because it's "who you love".

But see I sorta differ, we are making progress with science to a degree. I kinda feel sorry for gay people, it is another thing I disagree with. I guess that was a more off the cuff thing to say.

I am not gay at all so I don't know what makes people gay, I just look at,the supposed "liberal" protests noe and like wow, oh my gosh. The whole political correctness thing has gone too far.

Yes, I suppose it is not endorsable by the Church.

BlackSabbath · Jan 4, 2018

Liza B. said:
You are looking at sin through the world's eyes. You are looking at sin as: some people are good, and some people are bad. Some are better, and some are worse.

God doesn't look at it that way. God's measure is: HOLY. He is holy. You are not. Are you? Instead of looking around and wondering who is better and not better--are you holy? God is so perfect and holy He cannot be around sin. That is His nature. He cannot abide it.

Once humanity fell we were doomed. We were equally doomed. Nice people, peaceful people, kind people, murdering people, raping people, stealing people. Because none of us are HOLY. What could God do about that? Well, He sent Jesus, to take on our sin FOR us. To pay the penalty for us, to serve the sentence, so to speak. Not so we could be perfect in this life. But so that we could have holiness restored at some point.

That is not to say that all sin is equal. Not all sin is equal. God will reward and will condemn according to our deeds--otherwise, He is not a fair judge. And He is fair. But all sin condemns. I'm going to say that again. Not all sin is equal, but all sin condemns.

I encourage you to get yourself a very good Bible and a good study guide. Ask if you'd like guidance!

I think the Holy Spirit dwells within side of us all, everyone deserves a fare chance at love and forgiveness. Christ related himself to God, because we are all a part of God in our own way, I believe that is what he meant. God=The Holy Spirit=Life.
God is us and we are God, having an experience of itself.

"bless are the pure of heart, for they will see God" Matthew 5.8

All sins are not equally, but we are all equally sinners then. The bible I believe is to help one gain a closer relationship or understanding of God, I believe; but at the same time I do not think the bible itself is. I know that's radical to a lot of people, which I am not saying to stray from or anything either lol.

BlackSabbath · Jan 4, 2018

JoeP222w said:
Experiences do not define truth.

Homosexuality is not about civil rights, it never has been. It is about super rights. Heterosexuals do not have the right to marry the same gender person. Homosexuals demand that they alone have the right to marry the same gender, exclusive to homosexuality. That would be a super right, not equal rights.

God's truth is not dependent on whether or not sinful man agrees with it. God's truth is based in His holiness and His perfect standard. Man's view has no effect whatsoever on the truth of God.

Not sure what you are referring to here. The Bible does not ban contraceptives.

I don't follow the rest of your comment or line of thought you are trying to put forward here.

That's why the church and state are seperate though. It is civil rights, it does exist within a vacuum of Christianity, there needs to be some level of seperation, and honestly maybe that is for the best. There are certain things that need to be taken into account to run a civil and society. As for as marriage yeah, I can see Christians not agreeing with that, though. Is seriously discriminating and physical force against gay people okay though?

The gay thing is the only thing that gets me, sex is a complicated manner, the bible was written a long time ago. It's not altogether their fault if they are born gay.

Well, we're all just sinners I suppose. I mean a further question I would pose: Is anyone here a luddite? Because if not we are all, equally hypocrites and joy the conviences of modern technology, but with it a vast number of problems as well.

I know it is not really okay for me to question the scripture here so I will refrain.

JoeP222w · Jan 4, 2018

BlackSabbath said:
Is seriously discriminating and physical force against gay people okay though?

Who is advocating physical force against homosexuals? I certainly never did.

And what is wrong with discrimination? God tells us what is righteous and what is not and He holds accountable to how we discriminate over that which is evil vs that which is good. Discrimination is not automatically a bad thing. You discriminated when you typed your comment. You did not use the letter "z" in your comment, so you discriminated against the letter "z". Yes, this is an absurd example, but it is to prove my point. The use of the term "discriminate", "discrimination", or "discriminating" is very misused and abused in our culture.

BlackSabbath said:
The gay thing is the only thing that gets me, sex is a complicated manner, the bible was written a long time ago.

Truth does not change over time.

And sex is not that complicated. Sexual interaction was designed by God to be only expressed between husband and wife in the covenant bond of marriage. Any other form of sexual interaction is against God's design and is thus sin.

BlackSabbath said:
It's not altogether their fault if they are born gay.

This is simply not true. Moreover, God commands us to repent of sin, not continue in it, even if this idea that they are born with it was true (its not). God has defined homosexuality to be sin.

BlackSabbath said:
Well, we're all just sinners I suppose.

Yes, indeed we are. But that does not excuse continuing in a life habit and practice of sin. Nor does that make sin a righteous act.

BlackSabbath said:
Is anyone here a luddite? Because if not we are all, equally hypocrites and joy the conviences of modern technology, but with it a vast number of problems as well.

No idea what you mean by this comment.

Liza B. · Jan 4, 2018

BlackSabbath said:
What? Oh no, I am just stating the difference between the old and new testament. Christianity and Judaism are different. I am not on the far right or anything [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Okay. And sadly, plenty of people have a problem with Jews...not just some on the "far Right". Many on the Left are very prejudice against them--sadly.

Am I not good enough to be a Christian?

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