Am I going to hell?

[hraedisc]

Catholic "friends,"

Am I going to hell? I rejected the Pope as leader of the Church and rejected the Roman Catholic Church as the depository of truth many years ago, after being raised as a Catholic and attending Catholic schools and high school seminary. I reject the Mass is necessary for my salvation, and will never attend another one. I believe Jesus is my Lord and Savior and trust that He forgives my humble pleas for forgiveness, apart from the ears of a priest and any penance he would ask me to do. I will never again accept the "Eucharist" as believed by Catholics. I renounce all "holy days of obligation" and Sunday sacredness.

 

Am I going to hell, according to the Church teaching magisterium?

 

 

[Wolseley]

Do you believe beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Catholic teachings and doctrines you have rejected are true, or do you believe them to be false?

 

[hraedisc]

Wolseley, are you serious?

Why would I believe the RCC teachings and doctrines to be true if I left the Catholic Church? No doubt.

I now belong to a non-Catholic Church: one that believes not in Tradition, but Scripture alone.

If memory serves me correctly, previous papal pronouncements have anathematized me. (Need I research them and post them here?) This I wish to confirm. Perhaps you guys can help.

 

[Wolseley]

If you truly, really, actually believe that the Catholic Church is wrong, then you are not going to hell.

Anathemization is a separate matter and is basically a formal acknowledgement of excommunication.

In order for you to be in state of mortal sin and thus condemned, you must have complete knowledge and acceptance of the error of your actions, and a determination to continue with them anyway. It's a case of being able to say, "I know the Catholic Church is right, and I know its teachings are true. I believe them with all my heart. And I'm going to reject them anyway, for reasons X, Y, and Z." That would be mortal sin. A rejection of them because you truly believe them to be false, for whatever reasons, would not be mortal sin, it would be self-deception, mental confusion, any number of reasons that might or might not apply to your particular case. I am not saying that you are mentally deluded, I am merely saying that you have an impediment to commission of a mortal sin.

From what you have said, you truly believe Catholicism to be wrong, and thus, you do not have complete knowledge of your actions as being erroneous; in other words, you are not rejecting something which you know to be true, you are instead rejecting something that you feel is false.

That belief must be taken into account by God when you are judged; a Catholic would say that while we believe you to be in error, your being convinced that you are not is an impediment to the commission of a mortal sin. You have a mental state that has convinced you of the correctness of your convictions, and while the Church would disagree with your stance, that mental state is nevertheless a factor both in determining why you believe as you do and in how God will assess your spiritual state, along with all of the other pertinent facts.

In any event, I do not have the authority or the ability to judge you one way or the other. Neither does anyone else here, or anywhere else. Only God can say for sure where any of us are going to wind up, and I make no judgements on anyone's salvation, one way or the other. That's up to God, and in the end, only His judgement matters anyway.

Does this make sense?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Um, are you trying to pick a fight with Catholics, or are you worried about your salvation?

If you truly feel that the Catholic Church is false, why in the heck do you care about their opinion of your eternal destination??

P.S.

If you want to fight with Catholics, I will oblige you, but let's be clear about your motivations.

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

Originally posted by <><
Catholic "friends,"

why the " " around friends?  Are you so ticked at the Catholic church you can't even be "friends" with a Catholic?

 

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by I can eat 50 eggs
why the " " around friends?  Are you so ticked at the Catholic church you can't even be "friends" with a Catholic?

 

Well Luke, it would seem this fine gentlemen just wants a fight...its a shame this thread will be shut down long before that happens.

 

[nyj]

<>< asked:
Am I going to hell?

Wolseley replied:
If you truly, really, actually believe that the Catholic Church is wrong, then you are not going to hell.

NYJ replies:
When I attended High School, we were allowed to take electives. One of the ones I took was Business Law, and in that class, possibly the only thing that stuck with me through all these years is the phrase, Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Now, that being said, just because a non-Catholic rejects the notion of mortal sin, does not mean that if they commit a mortal sin it won't count against them because they refuse to acknowledge those particular Scriptural verses. Rather, they will suffer the consequences of their actions. These very sorts of people are the goats in the Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 25 who proclaim their belief in Jesus with their lips and live a lifestyle completely against the Gospel.

Therefore, rather than say that <>< will not be going to hell, we should tell <>< that we cannot judge him/her/it one way or the other. Instead we know that 1)by our fruits we are known (and what I see coming from <>< is rotten) and 2)we are commanded to obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who instituted the very Church that <>< so vehemently rejects. May God have mercy.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

...

 

[_Orion]

Isn't it the case of

Vincible vs. Invincible Ignorance?

Espeically when dealing with decisions that are made with ones conscience?

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

It appears we have the one type of poster I hate worse than a troll, and that, is the hit and run troll. Post something inflammatory, then never show up again to face the music.

 

[Wolseley]

Well, nyj, I am not a canon lawyer, but the general rule of thumb in these cases, I think, is to give the person the benefit of the doubt, keeping in mind both that God is compassionate and merciful, and that there is always the chance that they may be motivated by grace to return to the Church. You're correct that there is no way of knowing what someone's judgement is going to be one way or the other, but it's better on our part as mortals to err on the side of compassion rather than condemnation.

Or at least that's what an on old priest whom I trust and respect told me once.

 

[LilyLamb]

Troll or not - this was an interesting thread and I learned something

(Wols, nyj - your knowledge never ceases to amaze me and I am quite grateful to have you here responding in a godly manner to educate and enlighten us)

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by Wolseley
Well, nyj, I am not a canon lawyer

Neither am I, but I heard the pay is good, and given the recent events, job stability is pretty good.

Originally posted by Wolseley
but the general rule of thumb in these cases, I think, is to give the person the benefit of the doubt, keeping in mind both that God is compassionate and merciful

I would agree with this, however we are still duty-bound to point out deficits in the thinking of others. Remember, two of the Spiritual Works of Mercy are 1)Instruct the ignorant, and 2)admonish sinners. While God is compassionate and merciful, He is also just, and if He watches us skipping merrily on our way without confronting injustice and lies He is not going to be very pleased. In such instances, a failure to rebuke sinners does two things, first it jeopardizes the soul of the sinner and second it jeopardizes our own salvation.

Originally posted by Wolseley
that there is always the chance that they may be motivated by grace to return to the Church.

Agreed once again, however it is my humble opinion that we should not stand by as those who rebel against the Church lay all manners of slander against her. The Church is our mother, instructing us in our Faith of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. Those who attack the Church attack Christ.

Originally posted by Wolseley
You're correct that there is no way of knowing what someone's judgement is going to be one way or the other, but it's better on our part as mortals to err on the side of compassion rather than condemnation.

I have no qualms with this, (as a Catholic how could I?), but let us never equate compassion with worldly submission, intellectual inferiority, inadequare faith and weakness of mind, heart and spirit.

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by LilyLamb
(Wols, nyj - your knowledge never ceases to amaze me and I am quite grateful to have you here responding in a godly manner to educate and enlighten us)

Lilylamb, I can only speak for myself but thank you. However, your praise is un-deserved, at least on my part. Godly manner? Only after several revisions to my original replies did I reach even a modest appearance of civility. Please pray for me, and my temper!

 

[Raphael]

okay wolseley, question for you regarding your post.&nbsp; (anybody can step in also, of course)

there are many things that i sometimes think are "evil" or wrong because some person gave a good argument why they might be.&nbsp; for example, someone says "harry potter is evil because it says in the Bible ________ ", and it makes sense.&nbsp; so now i think, "hmmm.&nbsp; maybe harry potter is evil?"&nbsp;

but then my wife and i go see it.&nbsp; i don't see anything wrong with it, but then again i do.&nbsp; does that make any sense?

that's only a small example.&nbsp; the major examples are with faith.&nbsp; which is why i am grateful to you and the many others who have shared their wisdom when i came to this board with questions.&nbsp;

like for example, asking the Blessed Mother Mary for help.&nbsp; i mean, i now know why they say children's faith is the best.&nbsp; when i was younger, i used to pray passionately to Mama Mary and to the Saints to help.&nbsp; now, after countless people who don't share the Catholic faith have told me that praying to Her or any saint is a sin and have given me Bible quotes, sometimes there is this tinge of doubt and fear in my head.&nbsp; "what if i'm wrong?"&nbsp; but i go ahead and do it.&nbsp;

thing is, i don't think those non-Catholics are wrong, they've got scripture.&nbsp; and of course, i don't think Catholics are wrong either, thanks to you all informing me about Tradition.&nbsp; where i am lost here is, it feels like it is "either-or".&nbsp; and it's confusing.

so what do you think of this?&nbsp;

 

[prophetess Glynis Bethel]

Hallelujah.

 

[prophetess Glynis Bethel]

Praise the LORD everybody.

My thread was closed, but praise GOD I still wasn't banned...yet.

Remember the words of Martin Luther (and the word of GOD). The JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH (solo).

The only reason that you will go to hell is for "lying" (and other sins) as others on this forum have done consistently without REPENTING. You will also need the gift of the HOLY GHOST.

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

Originally posted by prophetess Glynis Bethel
Praise the LORD everybody.&nbsp;


The only reason that you will go to hell is for "lying" (and other sins) as others on this forum have done consistently without REPENTING.&nbsp;

&nbsp;

really, Lying is an unforgivable, go straight to hell sin?&nbsp; where'd you get that?

&nbsp;

are you really a prophet?

 

[seebs]

Wait, is it just faith, or does the Bible come in here?

Also, could you clarify as to who exactly you know has lied but not repented?