Am I doomed?

[whitestar]

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/gilgymess.html


Good question--is Genesis merely a rip-off of other ANE lit?

[Series Begin: Feb 2005 // Last update: Dec 9/2005 (Final Installment)]

[font=Thorndale, serif]Every so often I get a question like this: [/font]

[font=Thorndale, serif]Hi Glenn; [/font]

[font=Courier New, monospace]Most of the skeptics (and atheists) believe that Old Testament writers borrowed from “epic of Gilgamesh” and other pagan sources found “at least one thousand years before Old Testament”… They often tell me: “Why do you believe a book that contains Sumerian/pagan stories” ... They say: “especially Genesis 2:5-23 has amazing similarities with religion of Sumerians :There was Sumerian “paradise” called DILMUN and a Goddess made 8 vegetables in a garden, one of the Gods was sick (He has a problem with his RIB) The Goddess cured his RIB and that’s why she was called ‘woman of life’(NINTI) so The RIB story in Torah borrowed from this source even the story of eating apple is of pagan origin and according to sumerian legends the first human created from dust JUST LIKE TORAH SAYS”[/font]

[font=Courier New, monospace]I hope you can help me out here because it seems no one wants to give an answer about these stories…(maybe these are really “tough” questions)[/font]

[font=Courier New, monospace]Thank you…[/font]
​

[font=Thorndale, serif]................................................... [/font]

This allegation -- that the the bible authors appropriated large (or 'controlling') amounts of material from Mesopotamian sources -- comes up with surprising frequency in the popular exchanges of the chat-argument rooms, apparently. This is surprising, since this position hasn't been the 'consensus' position of mainstream Assyriologist scholars in the field--regardless of 'confessional stance!--for over thirty years. Your objector/skeptic friend has just taken some older (but still held by a few contemporary Assyriologists) data, mixed it with a little bit of 'regular level' chatroom hyperbole, and turned it into an 'objection'. Although we will look at a number of ANE myths, the specific one he/she is referring to would be Enki and Ninhursag and we can probably tell the exact source of his/her data (in this case, probably the ANE scholar Samuel Noah Kramer), and we will deal with those specifics in the first piece of the series.

This series ("Oh, no, Glenn--not ANOTHER 'soon to be unfinished' series!!!...a never-ending series, of never-ending series?! How Cantorian of you!"--Hey, I finished the Miracles series, didn't I?--smile) will go through all the relevant cosmogonic (i.e., dealing with the creation of the cosmos, and humanity) and try to show to the reader WHY the ANE scholars see 'bits and pieces' (at most), but no 'real, heavy borrowing' (some repudiation, some setting-the-record-straight, but NEVER conceptual-signoff or agreement).

We will look at all the major cosmogonies, a couple of minor ones, and perhaps some cosmogonic materials from within other genres--in detail (smile). Our focus will be mostly on Creation (Genesis 1-2, with only minor references to 3-11). Since the Enuma Elish is considered the closest to the Genesis story, we will have many citations dealing with it [since any alleged connections between the bible creation story and other ANE works will be 'less plausible', for this reason]. And the Epic of Gilgamesh will come up from time to time as well, for similar reasons. [We will also look at Enki and Ninhursag in detail, since it contains the Dilmun reference.]

I will be using these major texts in this article (biblio detail in the Book Abbreviations page--bookabs.html): [TCS1] Context of Scripture (vol 1, Hallo and Younger), [OT:CAANEB] Creation Accounts in the Ancient Near East and in the Bible (Clifford), [ISI] I Studied Inscriptions from Before the Flood: Ancient Near Eastern, Literary, and Linguistic Approaches to Genesis 1-11 (Hess and Tsumura, eds.), [HI:EGE] The Evolution of the Gilgamesh Epic (Tigay), [PCE] The Pentateuch in its Cultural Environment (Livingston, 2nd ed), [AILCC] Ancient Israelite Literature in Its Cultural Context (Walton), Myths from Mesopotamia (Dalley). I will be following Clifford's sequence below.

(read the rest at the link)

 

[Harlan Norris]

I became a Christian when I was 7 years old. I was raised Southern Baptist. I used to believe Jesus was my savior, that he died on the cross for my and our sins, I asked Jesus to be my lord and savior, and asked God to forgive me. Ten years later, I started reading apologetics to try to convert my then boyfriend, who was atheist. The more I started thinking about Christianity, studying it more, reading the apologetics for it, the more I started to doubt it and became very skeptical. Throughout the years, I've been studying it more and praying, but ironically I've drifted further and further away. Instead of being more sure, I'm more confused. I am now almost 35 years old and have been struggling with this for over half my life. I went from full faith, loving God, dedicated...to confused, skeptical. I don't believe that Jesus is God or my savior anymore and I have doubts about God, although I wouldn't say I'm atheist. Perhaps there is a higher power that created us.

That's my background info. I've been searching and searching and haven't gotten closer to God in the process. I'm getting to the point of giving up, because it isn't looking better, it's looking worse (in the perspective of re-converting to Christianity). So, here's my question:

Would the following prayer be good enough for God?

"Dear God, I'm not so sure if you really exist. I wish I knew. If I knew you existed, I would want to get to know you and follow your plan for me. I'm not sure if there is a plan for me--to follow Christ, to follow Mohammed, to follow someone else. I wish I could follow my heart, but it leads me nowhere. If I follow my brain, as I now perceive things to be, then I cannot believe/follow you. If you are out there, please give me some guidance and direction. If you are real, then I hope you know me better than I know myself and can touch me in a way that will leave me no doubt what to believe and what to do. Thank you."

If this prayer isn't good enough, then I am doomed. I cannot believe what I do not believe.


Boomygrrl

I can't remember which it is a Psalm or Proverb,but it goes something like "listen not to the councel of the unGodly.Thats pretty good advice.You started out young,and you had no experience in this world.Now that you have some, you doubt.I did it just the opposite.By the time I found my faith, I'd done it all, so to speak.I was heartsick,life amounted to nothing.It was just pointless,nothing thrilled me and the truth could not be found anywhere.Thats when I found Jesus.Now it all makes perfect sense,My life has purpose.I am saved and I thank God for it.Look, life is short, even if one can reach old age,you still have to die.You will consider God at that time.Go back in your memory and remember your first love,and how you came to it.Refresh your faith and keep your eye on the prize.Stay on the path.You will get there.

 

[lilangel04_86]

As I first read the opening paragraph to your post I thought you were referring to Jesus' words when he said that the kingdom of God belongs to people "as these" (i.e., children). What Jesus was saying is that children are humble; and as it was said elsewhere in Scripture, God exalts the humble.

Yes children are humble, but he was also talking about their innocence. Which today's children lose at an early age.

 

[bhowe]

I would 1st question as to how you became a Christian at the age of 7. Being that young you were innocent, therefore in no need of repentence. And unless sometime in your life you ever prayer for Christ to save you from yourself and asked Him to be you Lord and Saviour. Then you have never committed yourself to Him. But you are not doomed for at least 2 reasons.
1. You have not denounced Christ, just that you are struggling with you faith. The scriptures tell us to bare with the failings of the weak in faith.
2. Plus you obviously have something nagging inside you, that would be God trying to get your attention.
And as far as reading material goes, if you need to read anything to help stregnthen your faith. Try reading your bible.
Someone loosing their faith is a scarey thing to think about. The worst thing I would imagine to hear is that they don't believe. Especially since it dosn't matter wether they belive or not, the fact is that God does exist, and the day of judgment will come soon. Don't be left out of the promises of God, because you have been discouraged by an unbeliever, and by inappropriate material. Call out to Him, Hle is always avaiable to us. I little advise; some of the most powerful prayers begin with HELP!
May the peace of God our Father and the grace of Jesus Christ be upon you.

 

[MoodyBlue]

I've posted on the apologetics forum until the cows come home. I wanted this discussion to be mostly about the OP. If I search for another 60 years (it could happen...women live almost to a hundred in my family), and I still don't find the Truth, then what? Do I die and go to hell?

I don't want to defend to you my beliefs. I am tired of this. I am. Take it on faith that I am telling the truth, that I have been searching for almost 18 years already. I know you don't have to believe me, I know many will doubt it and say "if you searched that long, then what's wrong with you? either you're lying or you are just being prideful." Conclude what you want from me, but I know what I've been struggling through.

This OP really is about..."oh my God...it's been almost 18 years of searching and I've actually drifted further away, rather than closer to God. Hope I don't die in a car wreck or get a fatal disease anytime soon, because if Christianity is true, I'm scre#ed!!"

It's also about "if Christianity is true, if God is real, I want to go back to being a Christian...I will want to have a relationship with God again."

At this point, I am not there. At this point, I am believing it less and less. However, I know I don't know everything. I know that I could be wrong.
So, am I doomed, or not? This isn't anger-driven, this is anxiety-driven! Does anyone understand what I'm asking yet?


Boomygrrl

I don't know if this is helpful, but you are certainly not the only one in CF that has doubts. I have struggled with my beliefs concerning God, Jesus, the Bible, for 30 years now - lots of ups and downs. I used to think I could find answers to my questions if I just put my mind to the task. So far, my success has been very limited. I will continue my search, but I am no longer confident of the end result. Perhaps some folks are born to believe, others are not (no, I do not want to start a free-will discussion).

I'm not trying to discourage you, just let you know that there are plenty of people with doubts, although maybe not many of them with the courage to admit they have them. Keep seeking, you might just find what you are looking for.

 

[Sketcher]

Jesus will always take you back if you return to Him.

Jesus Reinstates Peter
When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
"Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."
Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?"
He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."
The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!"
Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is going to betray you?") When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"
Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."

Jesus reinstated Peter after Peter denied Him not once, but three times. If you return to Him He will take you back as well.

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

 

[Boomygrrl]

I don't know if this is helpful, but you are certainly not the only one in CF that has doubts. I have struggled with my beliefs concerning God, Jesus, the Bible, for 30 years now - lots of ups and downs. I used to think I could find answers to my questions if I just put my mind to the task. So far, my success has been very limited. I will continue my search, but I am no longer confident of the end result. Perhaps some folks are born to believe, others are not (no, I do not want to start a free-will discussion).

I'm not trying to discourage you, just let you know that there are plenty of people with doubts, although maybe not many of them with the courage to admit they have them. Keep seeking, you might just find what you are looking for.

Thank you, MoodyBlue. 30 years of struggling? How do you deal with this? I like your name, it reminds me of the musical group "Moody Blues."

Boomygrrl

 

[Boomygrrl]

Thanks to all who have responded.
I plan on praying more about this. I'm sorry that I didn't respond to all of your responses. Some of it is that I just don't want to repeat myself. I admit I'm a little frustrated in all of this, so I guess I need to pray for patience as well.
Thanks again,
Boomygrrl

 

[revmalone]

Boomygrrl

This is your answer to understanding deeper issue things God did thru Christ,by Christ, In Christ.refresh you memory or jump start your heart,It will make sense at the end only-ha ha ha.Please just read it

From the Fall of man when God cursed the serpant, he for told there would be a savior to come who would destroy the seperation satan had caused that day. Here is the verse were God reveals it.Genesis 3:15; 15. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.​

So the savior to come would be the one who would repair this , and over come him. So what is this repair about. Well it will be to restore the fellowship between God and mankind. Man was seperated by the death of his spirit from fellowship with God. Fellowship was broken by Adam and Eve breaking his first Commandment of Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree.

After this break of fellowship man became seperated from God and perfect fellowship. God then made the first sacrifice for mans sin, he killed a animal and made coverings for Adam and Eve both. Here is the verse.Genesis 3:21; Unto Adam and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.God shed the Blood of a animal and this is were the very first sacrifice was made apon the earth. Adam and Eve tried to cover up the wrong they had done by making them self covering from leafs but this did not go over with God.

The First thing they did was confess there sins to God and then They first had to take off all there coverings they made and accept Gods own design for Covering.So What do you think was so wrong with them making there own covering or clothes? This must be because it was the human attempt to hide what they'd had done, In a sense they were depending on there own efforts as being enough to make up for the wrong they did. God showed them that it is out of there hands to make things right. But by the Sacrifice God made of the animal was a picture of the savior who was to shed his blood to fix there failure

What would it take to restore the fellowship we lost there in the Garden that day, we must see the standard required for fellowship with God. The only standard shown to us is the Ten commandments. You'll see very quickly just how short we fall from making things right.



1."YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME";

Have you Always put God First in your life, have you loved Him more then you have Loved yourself, are all your desires for Him, does your Love for God make your Love for everything else in Life seem like Hate when you compaire it to your love for God.

Have you always loved other people more then your self.

To God Nothing in Life is supposed to that important, Just Him.guilty_____or Not_____?

2."YOU SHALL NOT MAKE YOURSELF ANY GRAVEN

IMAGE".

This means your not to create a God with your Hands, nor your mind. Anything that you allow in your life that is put before God or that keeps you from seeking him with all your Heart is breaking of this commandent, also because you have formed a false picture of the nature of God. Your mind has created a false god that doesn't exsist, that is Idolatry and God requires death for breaking this one.

guilty_____or not_____?

3."YOU SHALL NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD

YOUR GOD IN VAIN".

Have you ever used God as a cuss word. Have you ever used his name to show your disgust at something. Do you use His name without reverance or respect. God Calls that Blasphemy.

The Bible say's Every man shall give a account of every word he speakes openly and in secret.Matthew 12:36,37; But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Just think of every bad word you have ever said in your whole life time you have to be judged for all those one at a time if nessary but the Real sad part is Romans 2:5, 6; But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

guilty_____or Not_____?

4."REMEMBER THE SABBATH AND KEEP IT HOLY".

God requires us to set aside one day out of the week, the day is not what's important here, setting aside one day to give God your mind and Honor & your attention & effections, it's a day of devotion to the God who gives you breath and life to make it thru each day,the very fact he gave you life, health, breath, this is why we are to give Him this day aside, to Honor to him as God our creator, and provider.

guilty_____or Not_____?

5."HONOR YOUR FATHER & MOTHER".

Have you ever talked back to your parents. Have you ever ignored the counsel or advice they gave you. Have you ever done anything that has brought shame to your parents, Have you ever done anything in secrect that if they only knew it would cause them to be ashame of you. Have you always treated them with respect and love that God would be pleased with.

guilty_____or Not_____?

6." YOU SHALL NOT KILL".

You don't have to kill someone to be guilty of this one, The Bible says that if your angry with another person without a cause your in danger of the Judgment, but if you have ever had hate in your heart twords another person, it's murder in Gods eyes. Do you speak about other people and taint them in other peoples eyes, your a murderer and a abominiation to God because you cause division among your brethren.

guilty_____or Not_____?



7."YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY".

Have you ever looked at another person and had a lustful thought, the Bible say if you even look at someone and lust you've commited Adultry with them. If someone has ever looked at you lustful you have commited adultry with them also.

guilty_____or Not_____?

8."YOU SHALL NOT STEAL".

Have you ever taken something, no matter how small nor it's value. What would that make you? A Thief. I know that's harsh but that is what God says. See God Judges the act not by value nor the reasoning.

guilty_____or Not_____?

9."YOU SHALL NOT LIE".

Have you ever told a lie before, have you ever told anything to anybody that wasn't true. To God what does that make you. A lier right. Why you told it is not important to God because it's the act your guilty of.

guilty_____or Not_____?

10. "YOU SHALL NOT COVET".

Have you ever looked at your neighbors thing"s and bought one.

How about Clothes, someones car, job, powerful positions because that is coveting, you can't deny were all guilty of that and we can't even hide those simple things from God because anything hide must be made open before all of heaven to witness against you, it's your Whole life time on trial when your judged.

guilty_____or Not_____?

James 2:10" For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point he is guilty of all". If you broke one then your guilty of breaking all. If you found your self guilty then, When God judges you by this standard were would you go.

See all people born will fail when we try to do these 10 commands the ability to do and be the perfection these show, all because of what Adam and Eve did way back in time breaking Gods command. Were told this in Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

This is were the sacrifice came into being it for told that salvation would come from the shedding of blood not from anything a man could do for himself.As were told in

Romans 3:23; For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 3:10; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Nobody since the fall has ever lived these 10 commandments perfectly, but remember the sacrifice God made for Adam and Eve, well the savior that would come would fullfill these Laws perfectly, but there is another thing about the savior that set him apart form all humans born. After adam feel he was cursed with death and sinfull actions and anyone born by the natural process"Mans seed and a women" inherit that curse through there blood and Flesh.

That why romans says for there is none righteous, because we all had a earthly father who passed his seed into women. Were told this is Romans 5:12. This is were sin came from for all mankind, ever since this anyone born from a mans seed has this curse in there nature and even in there blood going through your vains. Romans;5:12; Wherefore, as by one man(adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The biggest proof that sin is real is the very fact that all things that has life in it dies now, doesn't it.That is to scientist a law of nature and this is were it came from, ok.

But God gave these ten commands for mankind to follow after adam and eve failed to keep that one command he gave them. The 10 commandments is the perfection that Adam and eve feel from and now Man could never live theses again since they feel from this perfection state.

You seen that you failed to pass them didn't you. This is were yours and my help comes in.

Jesus came into the world for this purpose to save us from what we failed at. we have 2 big problems our blood is tainted with sin and our nature, it fell from the perfection required by God, the 10 commandments.

Gods plan was to save us because we had no help and he loved us and wanted us back, So God decides to Place, by his own hand, Christ Jesus into a virgins womb, Why?

This by passed the seed of man and made his blood pure because he was full of the Blood of God, he was not givin the sinful blood and inherited sinful nature passed down by a earthly fathers seed.

He being now sinless in blood, he walked, live and fulfilled all 10 commandments perfectly.HE passed this test and became ruler over the power this law had on us all. Jesus said he did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. That is what he did all 10 without fail.

So when he went to the Cross he shed his perfect blood for the final sacrifice, like when the animal died for Adam and Even , Christ blood was the final sacrifice to seal the deal to restore us.The bible say without the shedding of blood there is no remission or forgivness of sins.

After his death on the cross he rose from the dead, the sacrfice came back to life and ascended into heaven were he sits now at the right hand of God. God being pleased with all his Son did for us, accepted his blood for salvation, so this is why the Bible tells us there is no other name given among men wereby we must be saved.

This means we can only be saved by Christ Jesus sacrifce and if you understand what Jesus did you us to be saved all you have to do is ask him.

If you want good works to get you in then take the 10 commandment test over and see if you pass, you can't and never will none of us will.

Ask God to forgive you for breaking his commands and ask Jesus to save you from your sins and ask him to teach you to follow him, Tell him right now your life is his from this day on.

Don't risk being judged by the law you already know your doomed that way.

If you accepted Christ to save you and meant it, the next step is to follow Christ in baptism, this is a public profession that you have become a follower of Jesus Christ. Why is that important? Jesus said if you believe on him your not to be ashamed of him and he said if you deny him before man then he will deny your before God.

Next find a Christ centered fellowship with other Christians, get a bible and read it everyday to grow stronger in the Lord and to increase your faith.

Bro Malone