Am I Christian?

[Jenniferstar]

I am in my 30's and have children and am in a relationship. I was born again christian at age 12, then I strayed at 14 and explored just about every religion from Buddhist to Hindu, with the exception of Muslim. At this point in my life I do not resonate strongly enough with any religion to claim to be devout.

However I have strong morals and I love God. I believe that abortion is murder and I dress modestly and down allow my children to dress older then their age. I live in an area of the country that is flooded with new age beliefs and general dislike towards Christianity. I myself used to be part of these beliefs. In fact, I still have some negative feelings towards Catholicism, even though I used to be Catholic.

I am torn on the topic of homosexuality. I believe that God intended for man and woman to be united in marriage, I believe this because if same sex couples can't reproduce naturally. It seems to be the divine plan. I believe this not because the bible says but because it makes sense...However I don't feel comfortable telling homosexuals they are wrong.

I think abortion is murder and is excusable only if the mother will die....because if the mother dies then the baby will die as well as a result, so the outcome is better in this case. I'm open to others opinion on this stance...I am against it even in cases of rape. I know people personally who are the child of rape and they are very happy to be alive.

I agree with a lot of what the bible says but I have a hard time agreeing that it is the word of God, just because it says in the bible that it is the word of God. I believe that creation and existence in itself is the word of God. Anything created by God is the word of God. The bible seems to me to the word of man. If someone proves me wrong I would be thrilled.

I like the ideas in the bible and the strong morals. I'm surrounded by new age hippiecrits that preach oneness and love and stab you in the back... Almost every woman that I know is involved in pyramid scams made to look spiritual. It's so ugly and turns me off the new age movement even more. I am disgusted by the new age and goddess movements. Women around here flaunt their bodies and wear tons of make up and act like they are goddesses and even refer to each other as goddesses. However the men, who also refer to them as goddesses, do not and would not refer to themselves as Gods. Well this could be a thread in and of itself.


I am not inclined to go to church but I would if I found a church that I could go to and feel good about. A church that is not judgemental towards "sinners" but still in integrity with conservative moral values.

I consider myself to be a spiritual person and I find joy in contemplating all of Gods creations and our human potential to be more godly. If that even makes sense. I am very sensitive, I know I know that everyone is sensitive. I cry when I hear about child abuse and I cried every day and prayed every day for Meriam Ibrahim and I still cry a lot when I think about Hailey Owens and others like her.

I have a hard time with the christian belief that murderes and rapists can be forgiven and granted access to heaven just for asking Jesus into their heart. That bothers me. There are personal reasons for this that I can share later as I feel more comfortable in this group to do so.

There's a lot I want to say but I don't want to over do it on my second posting to the forum.

Thanks so much for holding this space.
Jennifer

 

[Jenniferstar]

Also if this post should be in another section please let me know.

 

[Gottservant]

The question "am I Christian" is difficult. For one thing, only Wisdom is truly Christian. For another thing, it all depends on how you are interpreting the will of God for your life, unless you are being persecuted or fleeing persecution, you have a choice as to whether you will be a prophet or a priest, a king or a prince, that sort of thing - I mean these are things that the believer has to think about and work out, so that their life has the biggest impact for Christ that it can. But then it depends on your faith as well, you might just pray for people silently, never witnessing at all.

So I think essentially what you are saying is "I am teachable, but how can I be sure?" Well, a clear difference between you and the world is that to some extent you have separated yourself from the world. I think that shows maturity. If you believed in God, you would seek ways to develop that maturity.

Just remember, when the world asks you to compromise, you have more friends in Heaven than you do on Earth (selah).

I think you're doing fine, of course, as far as your testimony is concerned, that's what I've said, but if you still feel something is not right between you and God then that is where you should start. Telling Him I accept His plan for my life is where I would start.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I am in my 30's and have children and am in a relationship. I was born again christian at age 12, then I strayed at 14 and explored just about every religion from Buddhist to Hindu, with the exception of Muslim. At this point in my life I do not resonate strongly enough with any religion to claim to be devout.

However I have strong morals and I love God. I believe that abortion is murder and I dress modestly and down allow my children to dress older then their age. I live in an area of the country that is flooded with new age beliefs and general dislike towards Christianity. I myself used to be part of these beliefs. In fact, I still have some negative feelings towards Catholicism, even though I used to be Catholic.

I am torn on the topic of homosexuality. I believe that God intended for man and woman to be united in marriage, I believe this because if same sex couples can't reproduce naturally. It seems to be the divine plan. I believe this not because the bible says but because it makes sense...However I don't feel comfortable telling homosexuals they are wrong.

I think abortion is murder and is excusable only if the mother will die....because if the mother dies then the baby will die as well as a result, so the outcome is better in this case. I'm open to others opinion on this stance...I am against it even in cases of rape. I know people personally who are the child of rape and they are very happy to be alive.

I agree with a lot of what the bible says but I have a hard time agreeing that it is the word of God, just because it says in the bible that it is the word of God. I believe that creation and existence in itself is the word of God. Anything created by God is the word of God. The bible seems to me to the word of man. If someone proves me wrong I would be thrilled.

I like the ideas in the bible and the strong morals. I'm surrounded by new age hippiecrits that preach oneness and love and stab you in the back... Almost every woman that I know is involved in pyramid scams made to look spiritual. It's so ugly and turns me off the new age movement even more. I am disgusted by the new age and goddess movements. Women around here flaunt their bodies and wear tons of make up and act like they are goddesses and even refer to each other as goddesses. However the men, who also refer to them as goddesses, do not and would not refer to themselves as Gods. Well this could be a thread in and of itself.


I am not inclined to go to church but I would if I found a church that I could go to and feel good about. A church that is not judgemental towards "sinners" but still in integrity with conservative moral values.

I consider myself to be a spiritual person and I find joy in contemplating all of Gods creations and our human potential to be more godly. If that even makes sense. I am very sensitive, I know I know that everyone is sensitive. I cry when I hear about child abuse and I cried every day and prayed every day for Meriam Ibrahim and I still cry a lot when I think about Hailey Owens and others like her.

I have a hard time with the christian belief that murderes and rapists can be forgiven and granted access to heaven just for asking Jesus into their heart. That bothers me. There are personal reasons for this that I can share later as I feel more comfortable in this group to do so.

There's a lot I want to say but I don't want to over do it on my second posting to the forum.

Thanks so much for holding this space.
Jennifer

Jennifer,

Welcome to CF!

Although I am not the one to judge whether you qualify as a Christian or not--that is up to Christ/God to determine--on a practical scale, I can still submit my general 'feel' about what you've said in your post.

So, from a practical, human point of view, I'd say that you are very nearly Christian. You're moral views seem to be consistent with Christian faith, as do your reactions to the New Age movement that you've experienced. Even some of your grievances with failed expressions of Christianity are 'Christian' in that they are tinged with a prophetic evaluation. The only thing perhaps I'm not seeing is a qualified assent to Christ as Lord and Savior, despite whether or not you see the Bible itself as being infallible.

How does my assessment strike you? Fair, unfair?

Peace

 

[Jenniferstar]

Thank you for your insightful answer Gottservant. I have a friend whose husban recently converted and he has since become such vocal voice on facebook that it turns many off of Christianity. I am also torn on this issue of witnessing. I'm not sure that I want to do that, it's confusing for me. I would not feel comfortable witnessing to others until I am firm and undoubting in what I beleive. When I was 12 I witnessed to my friend and she converted to christianity and it strained our friendship after that and her parents were also upset about it. So maybe I have some truama around that.

 

[KnowtheSilence]

Missing some important info. What do you believe about Jesus? Kind of hard to determine whether the label "Christian" accurately applies to someone if you don't know what they believe about Christ.

 

[Jenniferstar]

I am still confused about christ as savior. Part of me really believes and the other part really believes that God loves everyone so much and to the point that if people were in touch with their hearts and with God that they wouldn't need a savior. And this also goes towards my inclination that people who commit awful and violent crimes have little place with Godly people. This is my one judgement that I have hard time letting go of.

 

[Tigger45]

Hi Jennifer,

We have similar backgrounds. I was baptized as an infant as a Roman Catholic but was never confirmed. Initially I had a belief in God but in my mid to late teens I considered myself atheist. When I was thirty I finally met a Christian who could graciously and intelligently defend the faith. I challenged God on every level thinking a true God could withstand the feeble questions of a mere mortal. Anyway I came first the to conclusion that there had to be a God due to the evidence of creation itself much inline with your belief perspective. Later I thoroughly challenged what Christians called 'the Word of God'. Some great resources I would recommend are Lee Stroble's 'A case for Christ' and Josh McDowel's 'Evidence that demands a verdict'. These two books are very well researched and respected works. After reading the later book it literally brought tears to my eyes to know that not only did God want to communicate with us but He definitely was able to maintain the integrity of His revelation the bible to mankind. Also keep in mind that Jesus not only factually walked this earth but it was prophesied. Over and over in the Old testament, who, where and when the messiah was. All of those prophesies could only point to one person in the totality of man's history on this earth. Anyway I hope this gets you started on your journey. Stay in touch and we'll try to help out where ever possible. Take care.

 

[quatona]

I am in my 30's and have children and am in a relationship. I was born again christian at age 12, then I strayed at 14 and explored just about every religion from Buddhist to Hindu, with the exception of Muslim. At this point in my life I do not resonate strongly enough with any religion to claim to be devout.

However I have strong morals and I love God. I believe that abortion is murder and I dress modestly and down allow my children to dress older then their age. I live in an area of the country that is flooded with new age beliefs and general dislike towards Christianity. I myself used to be part of these beliefs. In fact, I still have some negative feelings towards Catholicism, even though I used to be Catholic.

I am torn on the topic of homosexuality. I believe that God intended for man and woman to be united in marriage, I believe this because if same sex couples can't reproduce naturally. It seems to be the divine plan. I believe this not because the bible says but because it makes sense...However I don't feel comfortable telling homosexuals they are wrong.

I think abortion is murder and is excusable only if the mother will die....because if the mother dies then the baby will die as well as a result, so the outcome is better in this case. I'm open to others opinion on this stance...I am against it even in cases of rape. I know people personally who are the child of rape and they are very happy to be alive.

I agree with a lot of what the bible says but I have a hard time agreeing that it is the word of God, just because it says in the bible that it is the word of God. I believe that creation and existence in itself is the word of God. Anything created by God is the word of God. The bible seems to me to the word of man. If someone proves me wrong I would be thrilled.

I like the ideas in the bible and the strong morals. I'm surrounded by new age hippiecrits that preach oneness and love and stab you in the back... Almost every woman that I know is involved in pyramid scams made to look spiritual. It's so ugly and turns me off the new age movement even more. I am disgusted by the new age and goddess movements. Women around here flaunt their bodies and wear tons of make up and act like they are goddesses and even refer to each other as goddesses. However the men, who also refer to them as goddesses, do not and would not refer to themselves as Gods. Well this could be a thread in and of itself.


I am not inclined to go to church but I would if I found a church that I could go to and feel good about. A church that is not judgemental towards "sinners" but still in integrity with conservative moral values.

I consider myself to be a spiritual person and I find joy in contemplating all of Gods creations and our human potential to be more godly. If that even makes sense. I am very sensitive, I know I know that everyone is sensitive. I cry when I hear about child abuse and I cried every day and prayed every day for Meriam Ibrahim and I still cry a lot when I think about Hailey Owens and others like her.

I have a hard time with the christian belief that murderes and rapists can be forgiven and granted access to heaven just for asking Jesus into their heart. That bothers me. There are personal reasons for this that I can share later as I feel more comfortable in this group to do so.

There's a lot I want to say but I don't want to over do it on my second posting to the forum.

Thanks so much for holding this space.
Jennifer

You gave a very detailed description of your beliefs and convictions. I am wondering why you are seeking to be labeled.

 

[Gottservant]

That's a good question, why would you want to be labelled?

 

[Paradoxum]

I believe that abortion is murder and I dress modestly

Why would abortion be murder?

I am torn on the topic of homosexuality. I believe that God intended for man and woman to be united in marriage, I believe this because if same sex couples can't reproduce naturally. It seems to be the divine plan. I believe this not because the bible says but because it makes sense...However I don't feel comfortable telling homosexuals they are wrong.

Do you think that non-reproducing priests are immoral then? How about people who don't want children, or those who never find a mate? Are those unable to have children unworthy of marriage?

There's no reason to think that reproduction is necessarily for all people. The ability to reproduce could be there so that those who want to reproduce can reproduce, and keep the species going. That doesn't require all people to do that.

Our planet already has a massive amount of people. If some people don't have children, that's okay... there's no moral reason to increase the population any more. There's no moral reason for gay people to have to reproduce with a member of the other sex.

Can you point to a harm that is done by two consenting people being in love? If not, why would being gay be wrong? No harm is done.

 

[Jenniferstar]

Good question. I hadn't thought about that until it was asked. I'd probably have to think about it more but the first thought that came to mine was to clear up my confusion. I'm not even sure if it would but maybe. I'm confused about the nature of religion and where I belong. Is it possible to be christian and not be religious? Is Christianity even a religion? There seem to be so many different sets of belief for each denomination, I'm no expert, but it seems like some denominations could be a religion all on their own.

 

[Jenniferstar]

Why would abortion be murder?

Abortion is murder because it is the killing of a human being. At the point in which an abortion provider would perform a surgical abortion, the kind where a vacuum where is used, there is already a heartbeat. They must wait until a pregnancy is at least 6 weeks, gestational age, otherwise they might not get the baby out because it is too small until this point.
I know that the abortion pill can be taken before this point, so a pregnancy can be ended before the heart starts beating, at around 22 - 28 days after conception. This means there is a heart beat around 2 weeks after a woman misses her period. Babies are born prematurely and live all the time. So life starts before birth.
Let me ask you this.

When does life start? Why is a human in utero being aborted not murder?

I've had an abortion myself as have many, many other women. I do not judge. However it was the worst thing I have ever done in my life and I grieve for that baby that I killed all the time. I'm still working on forgiving myself. I pray that God forgives and that my baby forgives me. Abortion creates a whole host of problems that are largely ignored by most people, with the exception of most Christians. Please be aware that I'm not making blanket statements like "only Christians care about abortion and the problems it creates" In my experience Christians are the ones I've seen to acknowledge this truth. Before I had the abortion I was in a phase of religious exploration and I was following a Hindu path where a lot of, not all, gurus will justify abortion, by saying, the baby has come to teach you something and that lesson is to be learned by having the abortion. That it is a spiritual lesson. I can not see how this could possibly be true. The only thing similar that I could agree with would be if the baby was lost through miscarriage and not abortion. At the time I didn't see abortion as murder. However I immediately knew I had made a grave mistake and I have had a lot of spiritual and mental problems as a result of the abortion, and I know for a fact that I'm not the only one. This is something they will not tell you about at the abortion clinic.

[/QUOTE]
Do you think that non-reproducing priests are immoral then? How about people who don't want children, or those who never find a mate? Are those unable to have children unworthy of marriage? [/QUOTE]

No I don't think that.
[/QUOTE]
There's no reason to think that reproduction is necessarily for all people. The ability to reproduce could be there so that those who want to reproduce can reproduce, and keep the species going. That doesn't require all people to do that.[/QUOTE]

Yes I know this. However many gay people in a relationship do wish to reproduce. They can not do this naturally. Unless they adopt. I am not 100% against homosexuality. I have gay friends and I love them. I would rather a gay person adopt a baby then the baby be aborted.


Our planet already has a massive amount of people. If some people don't have children, that's okay... there's no moral reason to increase the population any more. There's no moral reason for gay people to have to reproduce with a member of the other sex.

Can you point to a harm that is done by two consenting people being in love? If not, why would being gay be wrong? No harm is done.

I know that a lot of people might get triggered by what I am about to say to answer your question.
I do not think that any harm is done and I don't think that being gay is wrong. I just don't think that it's natural, especially if they want to reproduce. I don't see how it is in the natural order of what God created for humans.

 

[Paradoxum]

Abortion is murder because it is the killing of a human being.

Why would it be wrong to kill someone just because they are human?

I don't see how that is different from racism (saying it's wrong to kill people if they are white). Both being white, and being human, are superficial biological criteria. They are no reason to make a moral judgement.

I think killing innocent people is wrong, but it isn't because they are human. It would be wrong to kill an alien too. You must think it would be wrong to kill an alien too, right?

When does life start? Why is a human in utero being aborted not murder?

When life begins is irrelevant. People kill bacteria all the time but don't think it's murder... but they are alive.

I don't think a fetus is any morally different than animals we kill all the time, such as cows. To say we shouldn't kill it because it's human is no different than racism. Humanity isn't a good reason not to kill something. Being human is just a species.

I think the right to life is based on the mind, not the body.

Abortion creates a whole host of problems that are largely ignored by most people, with the exception of most Christians.

I'd say that conservative Christians don't care about true morality. They just make stuff up and claim to know stuff.

However I immediately knew I had made a grave mistake and I have had a lot of spiritual and mental problems as a result of the abortion, and I know for a fact that I'm not the only one.

Well maybe it was a bad decision for you, but that isn't because it was immoral.

Yes I know this. However many gay people in a relationship do wish to reproduce. They can not do this naturally. Unless they adopt. I am not 100% against homosexuality. I have gay friends and I love them. I would rather a gay person adopt a baby then the baby be aborted.

I know that a lot of people might get triggered by what I am about to say to answer your question.
I do not think that any harm is done and I don't think that being gay is wrong. I just don't think that it's natural, especially if they want to reproduce. I don't see how it is in the natural order of what God created for humans.

It is nature. Homosexuality is pretty much by definition natural. It happens naturally... biologically. If you don't think it's natural, then you don't know what the word 'natural' means.

(What God thinks would be irrelevant to what is moral or immoral anyway. God's opinion is just an opinion, unless it is based on moral reasoning).

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Why would it be wrong to kill someone just because they are human?

I don't see how that is different from racism (saying it's wrong to kill people if they are white). Both being white, and being human, are superficial biological criteria. They are no reason to make a moral judgement.

I think killing innocent people is wrong, but it isn't because they are human. It would be wrong to kill an alien too. You must think it would be wrong to kill an alien too, right?



When life begins is irrelevant. People kill bacteria all the time but don't think it's murder... but they are alive.

I don't think a fetus is any morally different than animals we kill all the time, such as cows. To say we shouldn't kill it because it's human is no different than racism. Humanity isn't a good reason not to kill something. Being human is just a species.

I think the right to life is based on the mind, not the body.



I'd say that conservative Christians don't care about true morality. They just make stuff up and claim to know stuff.



Well maybe it was a bad decision for you, but that isn't because it was immoral.







It is nature. Homosexuality is pretty much by definition natural. It happens naturally... biologically. If you don't think it's natural, then you don't know what the word 'natural' means.

(What God thinks would be irrelevant to what is moral or immoral anyway. God's opinion is just an opinion, unless it is based on moral reasoning).

Paradoxum,

May I ask from what sources you are basing your conclusions here? You mentioned that Christians 'make stuff up,' but I'm not seeing any of your statements backed up by any sources. That's an F on a university paper.

It's kind of sad for me to see you--an intelligent person--get so polemical. You're better than this.

 

[Jenniferstar]

Why would it be wrong to kill someone just because they are human?

Are you serious?

I don't see how that is different from racism (saying it's wrong to kill people if they are white). Both being white, and being human, are superficial biological criteria. They are no reason to make a moral judgement.

How is saying that it's wrong to kill human fetuses is the the same as saying that it is wrong to kill white people.
I am really confused by your logic.
I think it is wrong to kill all humans, no matter what the color of their skin is.
By the way I am white and my husband is black and we have a little brown baby.

I think killing innocent people is wrong, but it isn't because they are human. It would be wrong to kill an alien too. You must think it would be wrong to kill an alien too, right?

Yes it would be wrong to kill an alien unless in self defense, just like it is ok to kill a human in self defense.

When life begins is irrelevant. People kill bacteria all the time but don't think it's murder... but they are alive.

To me, there is a BIG difference between a human and bacteria. To even explain the differences are not interesting to me. I'm sure you can figure it out.

I don't think a fetus is any morally different than animals we kill all the time, such as cows. To say we shouldn't kill it because it's human is no different than racism. Humanity isn't a good reason not to kill something. Being human is just a species.

Humans are very different then animals. In good ways and bad ways. Are you saying that it is ok to kill humans because we kill animals? or are you saying that you don't think it's ok to kill either humans or animals, or bacteria? I'm confused.

I think the right to life is based on the mind, not the body.

So then you think it's ok to kill people? That's kind of what I'm getting from what you are saying.

You think that humans are no different then any other living organism, yet you think the right to life is based on the mind and not the body. I really don't understand what you mean when you say this. Would you please clarify what you mean in more detail?
How can we be a body with out a mind and vise versa?

I'd say that conservative Christians don't care about true morality. They just make stuff up and claim to know stuff.

Do you really think that? To place conservative Christians under a blanket statement like that is no different then racism to me. To claim that you know that conservative christians make stuff up seems to make me think that you think you know what people, christians, are thinking and doing. No body is a mind reader. Sorry

Well maybe it was a bad decision for you, but that isn't because it was immoral.

I disagree. Do you not have morals or believe in morals?

It is nature. Homosexuality is pretty much by definition natural. It happens naturally... biologically. If you don't think it's natural, then you don't know what the word 'natural' means.

Well I only said it was my opinion, I never claim to know anything for a fact, except what I feel and think. Those are the only things I claim to know.

(What God thinks would be irrelevant to what is moral or immoral anyway. God's opinion is just an opinion, unless it is based on moral reasoning).

In my opinion, God is the creator, he created humans and he created the earth. Therefore to me is my father. I care about what my father thinks. Let's pretend for a moment that I'm talking about my literal father. I know that my father still loves me no matter what I did, but I know he would be sad knowing that he will never get to meet his grandchild and watch that child grow up and hopefully fill the world with good.

 

[quatona]

Good question. I hadn't thought about that until it was asked. I'd probably have to think about it more but the first thought that came to mine was to clear up my confusion. I'm not even sure if it would but maybe. I'm confused about the nature of religion and where I belong. Is it possible to be christian and not be religious? Is Christianity even a religion? There seem to be so many different sets of belief for each denomination, I'm no expert, but it seems like some denominations could be a religion all on their own.

Would you like to be able to call yourself a "Christian"?

 

[Jenniferstar]

I am unclear if that is what I want. I guess not, but I am not against it either.

 

[quatona]

Who, in your opinion, has the authority to decide whether a person can call themselves "Christian" or not?

 

[Jenniferstar]

Who, in your opinion, has the authority to decide whether a person can call themselves "Christian" or not?

Good question. I don't know. I guess it's a matter of opinion and perspective. I guess I'm just trying to get opinions from people here since this is a christian forum.


I can try to explain what I do want. I want to be able to worship God and Jesus without the constraints of a church that is full of dogma. I know that I can do this, however I feel lonely. I would love to find a christian church that is alignment with this. I did go to a church for a while in santa cruz that I loved because of the positive messages and it wasn't boring like many other churches I have been to. However this church had a lot of new age beliefs that I also didn't resonate with.
I want to be clear and be able to explain to others what my spiritual beliefs are in a way that makes sense. I can't do this if I am confused myself. I don't want to be confused. I want to know if what I am doing is good enough, I know that people here can not tell me that. I am just acknowledging that is what I'm thinking.