am i blowing this out of context?

[Loopi]

We have a church forum, and on there we can ask our youth pastor questions about God, the bible etc.

Two people have asked about self harm, but my youth pastors responses have made me feel like an attention seeking two year old, who is a very bad christian. Maybe im wrong, but i see selfharm like any addictive sin, and feel it is regarded badly in churches because it is regarded badly in society. I Always thought church would accept selfharmers and help them, as that is what i believe Jesus would do, unlike in society, where selfharmers and looked down upon and scorned. However, my youth pastors responses seem to me more like society's belittling views:

I've heard of a lot of passionate christians that do this and i want to know, if they do self-harm does it mean they're not fully passionate about God or that they're not proper christians?
I asked someone and they told me it was just their was of coping. Of turning physical pain into emotional pain. I know that our bodies are supposed to be temples for the Holy Spirit and all.
I is just wondering

Yeh, self harm is never a good thing because...

1. it hurts
2. god doesn't want us to be hurt
3. it doesn't really work anyway
4. there are much better ways to deal with problems, like..

talk, pray, forgive, trust, chill out, have fun, change thinking, grow up.

anyone who self harms needs to stop, talk to a leader, and get to the bottom of the real problem.


How can God let the devil get hold of someone this tightly?

To me it seems like God lets people down in this way.. because the devil gets such a tight grip on them, filling them with emotional pain they self harm to turn it into physical pain.. how can God let this happen if he loves us as much as the bible says he's mean to...

To me its a very grey area of god's love - i know self harming lets God down but at the same time he's letting us down by not being there for us isn't he?

Please can you explain why the devil manages to get that tight a grip on some people?

much love. peace x

The issue is not that the devil has got a hold of people, its that deception has got a hold of people. They think wrongly about things - and lies lead to pain, and pain leads to self harm. So the issue is not that god doesn't love us - its that we aren't putting into practice the truth of his word in our lives that leads to freedom and peace.

Our problems are often made bigger by the fact that we.....

1. Dwell on them til we're upset/worried/hurt
2. Ignore God and his word daily
3. Pity ourselves and blame others
4. Continue to think wrongly so that it becomes a habit

If theres a problem that leads to self harm, we have to interrupt this process and bring some truth, some faith, and some action to make it better. God will help us, but he won't do it for us.

mike

If i have taken this the wrong way, can someone explain to me how you see it? I see this as him basically saying that a selfharmer isnt a good christian as they arent relying on God, or applying his word to their lives.

 

[Deamiter]

Well, in a way he's absolutely right. Self harm is certainly a coping mechanism, but it's a very negative coping mechanism that causes more problems than it solves. But I also think that the lens of SI has distorted his message in your eyes. Having been there, I know what it's like; it's not as if you CAN stop feeling worthless -- even worthless to God. Perhaps I can try to make this answer make more sense to you?

In my struggles, I found that the following was exactly right:

Our problems are often made bigger by the fact that we.....

1. Dwell on them til we're upset/worried/hurt
2. Ignore God and his word daily
3. Pity ourselves and blame others
4. Continue to think wrongly so that it becomes a habit

Now, it's not so much that self-harm CAUSES you to be a "bad Christian!" It seems to me that your pastor is saying that the problems are ALSO made bigger by these factors -- in other words, you could put self-harm under number 5 as things that further drive us from God.

Technically, by the standard you're asking about, we're all "bad Christians." We all sin, and we all have things that drive us away from Christ and from the perfection we were designed for. The Bible also makes it very clear that you can in NO way say that one sin is worse than another! So your self-harm is the same as somebody else's cheating on their taxes in God's eyes.

At the same time, self-harm is very serious. It's not to be taken lightly, and unlike cheating on your taxes, it IS very addictive! While you should NEVER allow yourself to compare your "level" of Christianity to somebody else's (it's a very unBiblical comparison) you CAN be convicted about where you personally have to change.

I think the main problem here is that your pastor didn't phrase it in a way that a self-harmer would naturally understand. The problems with SI really ARE deception -- you feel worthless, you feel you deserve the pain, or you feel there's no other way out. Yes, SI is another way to be pushed from God, but it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that you are non-Christian or even a worse Christian!

You are struggling with every other Christian -- some struggles and sins are socially acceptable, some are less addictive, and most aren't so dangerous (as degrading yourself that way often leads toward suicide as it did in my life at least). But God loves you more than anything else in the universe (funny how that's true for everybody) and your sins will never drive our loving father to look down on us!

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Self harm as attention seeking is usually a grave assumption made by people who haven't taken the time to understand it.

 

[Alive again]

Jesus would welcome anyone who was seeking him, period. Yes, self harm is little understood. My children know many who have either tried this, including my son, or tried it. It is something that can be conquered. Unfortunately it is one of many issues that anyone , esp Christians have a difficult time with. I am BP and frequently depressed and have had other Christians tell me I am not a real Christian and many other things. Unfortunately we are human and not perfect like Jesus. Just know they do not truly understand and do not let them determine whether you are worthwhile, rely on only god for that. Seek out the truth in God's word and seek out other christians who do understand and accept youu and will help you deal with this issue. God bless you as you grow closer to Him each day!!!

 

[Loopi]

Thanks guys. it really just got at me, im being baptised on sunday, and i feel awkward about the fact my scars will be uncovered, and my youth pastor is one of the people dunking me. I guess i just felt that mike was looking down on me. the phrase "stop, talk to a leader" makes it sound like you cant approach my leaders unless you've stopped, and it makes me feel like he thinks that u can just stop like that. I wish it was that easy, im fed up of going through all this, im fed up of cutting but its the only way i can deal with my past atm. Thanks for your replies, has shed a different light on it all

 

[TheMainException]

This yp of yours makes me really mad.....if they haven't been there...they need to shut up about it....they don't understand...so they can't talk. He doesn't understand the life of a cutter and about how it works...most ppl think they get it but just don't! They need to reach deep and dare to care and understand how it works for someone like you or me.

 

[bliz]

(Quoting a youth pastor in orange...)
Yeh, self harm is never a good thing because...

1. it hurts
Actually, not a whole lot. When I have felt like hurting myself, it really doesn't hurt very much at all. It always hurts a lot less than the emotional pain.
2. god doesn't want us to be hurt
Sorry - don't agree. I think that God often wants us to hurt so that we will learn. That's not to say that wants us to self injure, I don't think He does. But God made out bodies feel pain - He obviously wants us to hurt sometimes.

3. it doesn't really work anyway
Again, it actually works pretty well! Or at least it works better than alcohol, or drugs, sex or suicide. After I've hurt a little I have then been able to withstand a lot of stress and emotional pain.
4. there are much better ways to deal with problems, like..
Agreed - there are better ways.

talk, pray, forgive, trust, chill out, have fun, change thinking, grow up.

anyone who self harms needs to stop, talk to a leader, and get to the bottom of the real problem.

How can God let the devil get hold of someone this tightly?

To me it seems like God lets people down in this way.. because the devil gets such a tight grip on them, filling them with emotional pain they self harm to turn it into physical pain.. how can God let this happen if he loves us as much as the bible says he's mean to...

First, Satan has limited resources and he has to deploy them very carefully. I don't know that Satan is always involved in self injurious behavior. Sure, he can be, but I don't think that he always is, mostly because it only harms one person. Now, if satan goes after a fine upstanding youth pastor, then a whole lot of people are impacted. More bang for the buck, as far as Satan is concerned.

To me its a very grey area of god's love - i know self harming lets God down but at the same time he's letting us down by not being there for us isn't he?

Gid never lets us down. We may be looking for the wrong things from God. He is not a waiter in a restaurant who comes when we snap our fingers.

Please can you explain why the devil manages to get that tight a grip on some people?

much love. peace x

The issue is not that the devil has got a hold of people, its that deception has got a hold of people. They think wrongly about things - and lies lead to pain, and pain leads to self harm. So the issue is not that god doesn't love us - its that we aren't putting into practice the truth of his word in our lives that leads to freedom and peace.

Our problems are often made bigger by the fact that we.....

1. Dwell on them til we're upset/worried/hurt
2. Ignore God and his word daily
3. Pity ourselves and blame others
4. Continue to think wrongly so that it becomes a habit

If theres a problem that leads to self harm, we have to interrupt this process and bring some truth, some faith, and some action to make it better. God will help us, but he won't do it for us.

mike

If i have taken this the wrong way, can someone explain to me how you see it? I see this as him basically saying that a selfharmer isnt a good christian as they arent relying on God, or applying his word to their lives.
[/QUOTE]

Most people are uncomfortable with "cutters" of "self harmers". Heck, I did it, and I was uncomfortable with myself! I was embarassingly old before I came to realize that I was not the only one on the planet who ever did such things! I had never heard it mentioned or discussed, so I was sure I was some really distorted weirdo.

It's a coping technique. How we stumbled upon it, I don't know. It's not a good coping technique, but it's better than many. The cutting - or whatever - is the not the problem. The emotional pain is the problem. When we heal the emotional wounds, the self harm will fade away. Not quickly, and never as fast as non-cutters would like it to, but it will fade as we become whole - whole in Christ. It spooks people - but it really isn't all that scary a thing. I wish the focus could come off the self harm and be pout where it belongs, on the wounds that cause people to choose this way of coping.

 

[Bevlina]

Each post in this thread is so commendable! Yes, Self Injury is a coping mechanism. It's also an escape. But, often the Devil isn't to blame. It life that's to blame. Things happen beyond control, and a human being looks for a way of escape. A manner of taking their mind off the pain in their hearts. It's not evil, nor a sickness or disease. I believe it's caused by sorrow.

 

[bassdrum1]

Maybe im wrong, but i see selfharm like any addictive sin.

i toatlly agree with you there but i use to cut too and thats how i felt.

I Always thought church would accept selfharmers and help them, as that is what i believe Jesus would do, unlike in society, where selfharmers and looked down upon and scorned.

it depends on the churches views. while i know it was worng for me to do that i've had my friends at church and they have never looked down on melike that.

I've heard of a lot of passionate christians that do this and i want to know, if they do self-harm does it mean they're not fully passionate about God or that they're not proper christians?

for me it was b/c i was having a rough time and couldn't tell anyone. i can speak for me but not anyone else sine cutters take stuff in diffrent ways.


How can God let the devil get hold of someone this tightly?

God doesn't want the devil to have us that tight. it's our own free will to decide if we want to listen to satan or God. That's why God gave us free will. God loves us but b/c He gives us free will we get to decide what to do. at least when it comes to cutting etc.