Am I Apostate?

Nendem · Apr 4, 2020

Apologies if in the wrong forum. I’ve posted a similar topic before, but this is a bit different.

Basically I’m worried that I was a ‘theist’ for a few months of my life, and if so, if that means I’m now apostate and can’t return to Jesus. I was in my early twenties, backslidden and not surrounded by Christians. I wasn’t engaged in Christian practices, although I did pray to God in those days. I just had doubts about Jesus, I believed God existed but I just wasn’t sure about Jesus. In that same time period, I would defend Christianity, and someone asked me how many spiritual life was and I identified as still having Christian beliefs.

But a friend and I were having a convo on Facebook, in which I said that I believe there is a divine intelligence that we call God, but ultimately we can’t prove which religion is true. It’s terrible I know, and I greatly regret it...

I don’t know what that means for me. I wasn’t in the word, I completely lost sight of the beauty of the Bible and how Jesus is on every page. I hate it, regret it, and know how injurious my actions were to Jesus. Based on the scary Hebrews 6 passages, am I an apostate forever lost? I’m not even convinced I was saved before. I intellectually understood Christianity and really thought I believed it, but maybe my backsliding and doubts about the divinity of Jesus prove otherwise.

I’m just worried I fell into apostasy, and that my heart is forever sewed up and hardened against God and the Holy Spirit. I’m sick, terrified, and deeply ashamed at what I did.

Amittai · Apr 4, 2020

in my personal, not highly learned opinion, you are not a permanent apostate but moving towards God in approximately a similar zigzag fashion to most of us (and rather a lot of Bible characters).

You are right to be sober-minded, it will take all of us lots of attention & concentration to maintain (in His Holy Spirit strength)

Nendem · Apr 4, 2020

Amittai said:
in my personal, not highly learned opinion, you are not a permanent apostate but moving towards God in approximately a similar zigzag fashion to most of us (and rather a lot of Bible characters).

You are right to be sober-minded, it will take all of us lots of attention & concentration to maintain (in His Holy Spirit strength)

I guess it’s a question of when does doubt become actual disbelief? And is the consequence permanent? If I repent of that, does it matter?

Albion · Apr 4, 2020

I don't think we here can judge your level of belief or any nuances in that situation. Not from this brief online exchange. But to be an apostate you have to have been a believer in Christ and then completely disavowed it thereafter.

Does that apply to you? I am not sure. However there is nothing indelible about that if it's true; you can indeed turn around, recognize your mistake, and come to the Lord now or later and cease to be an apostate.

ViaCrucis · Apr 4, 2020

Nendem said:
I guess it’s a question of when does doubt become actual disbelief? And is the consequence permanent? If I repent of that, does it matter?

Jesus tells the story of the Prodigal Son, in it a son demands to receive the full share of his inheritance from his father and then leaves and wastes it all. Eventually he finds himself living with pigs. In desperation he seeks to return to his father, not in the hopes that his father will accept him again as a son, but perhaps that his father would let him return and be a slave. When the son comes, the father sees him coming from a distance, and the father immediately runs out to embrace his son declaring, "My son was dead, but now he lives!" Has the son washed, given new beautiful clothes, and throws a great banquet to celebrate the return of his son.

The son had squandered everything, and when he returned had nothing, and did not even consider himself worthy of being called a son any longer. But the father does not merely accept him, but throws a lavish party. The father does not demand anything, but gives all of this freely.

That's who God is to us.

-CryptoLutheran

Amittai · Apr 5, 2020

It matters as a lesson, and a permanent consequence can be a good one, I think, but then that's just me!

1213 · Apr 5, 2020

Nendem said:
...I’m just worried I fell into apostasy, and that my heart is forever sewed up and hardened against God and the Holy Spirit. I’m sick, terrified, and deeply ashamed at what I did.

I believe it is forgiven already. And as Jesus said "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more." John 8:11.

And what you say, shows to me that your heart is not hardened. Person whose heart is hardened, doesn’t regret.

In this case I think it is good to remember this.

The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe." After eight days again his disciples were inside, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, the doors being locked, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace be to you." Then he said to Thomas, "Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don't be unbelieving, but believing." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen me, [TR adds " Thomas,"] you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed."
John 20:25-29

I think it is no very bad, if person doubts. Worse is, if person claims surely for example that “God does not exist”.

Tolworth John · Apr 5, 2020

Nendem said:
I’ve posted a similar topic before

Nendem said:
I’m just worried I fell into apostasy, and that my heart is forever sewed up and hardened against God and the Holy Spirit. I’m sick, terrified, and deeply ashamed at what I did

What does your pastor say about this?

Do you have a reason for not believing what he tells you?

In a nutshell you sinned a number of years ago, you no longer believe that sin, yet you think it has stopped you from being a Christian.
Why do you believe this, do you have a reason why your repentance has not been accepted by Jesus?

Jesus is YHWH · Apr 5, 2020

I would examine the parable of the soils and ask the questions what is faith, what does it mean to be a follower of Christ, can one be saved and not have any fruit of the spirit, did a genuine change/conversion take place and ponder on these things. scripture calls us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. Self examination is something only you and God can determine since a medium like this is at best guesswork.

My advice for you is forget about tomorrow or the future. Today is the Day !

The bible also says the following in Hebrews 3

7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,

"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, 8 DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS, 9 WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me, AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS. 10 "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"

The Peril of Unbelief

12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 15 while it is said,
"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME."

16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
NASU

The good thing is if there is a real desire for God in your heart then you are not apostate.

Amittai · Apr 5, 2020

1213 said:
... The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe." After eight days again his disciples were inside, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, the doors being locked, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace be to you." Then he said to Thomas, "Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don't be unbelieving, but believing." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen me, [TR adds " Thomas,"] you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed."
John 20:25-29 ...

I think Believing Thomas asked Jesus the best questions of anybody, and Jesus gave him the best answers of anybody

Nendem · Apr 5, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
I would examine the parable of the soils and ask the questions what is faith, what does it mean to be a follower of Christ, can one be saved and not have any fruit of the spirit, did a genuine change/conversion take place and ponder on these things. scripture calls us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. Self examination is something only you and God can determine since a medium like this is at best guesswork.

My advice for you is forget about tomorrow or the future. Today is the Day !

The bible also says the following in Hebrews 3

7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,

"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, 8 DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS, 9 WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me, AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS. 10 "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"

The Peril of Unbelief

12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 15 while it is said,
"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME."

16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
NASU

The good thing is if there is a real desire for God in your heart then you are not apostate.

I’ve done a lot of self-examination recently, and it’s been difficult to nail down for sure if I was a believer. I definitely thought I was, but in hindsight I’m not so sure. I was serious, and committed to it, but ultimately only God knows our hearts, and my doubt is if I really completely committed to Jesus 100% in my heart.

My prayers recently have been for God create in me a clean heart, to renew my mind, and to show me exactly what I need to do. I can say that I do want to know Him, I do want to be a Christian, and I do not want the things of the world. I just fear that my heart has been too hardened from sin that I will be unable to really believe and repent...but my hope is that God helps me with this.

Nendem · Apr 5, 2020

Amittai said:
I think Believing Thomas asked Jesus the best questions of anybody, and Jesus gave him the best answers of anybody

I am certainly a doubting Thomas, and I don’t say that with pride. But I’m also aware my head and my heart are two different things.

Nendem · Apr 5, 2020

Tolworth John said:
What does your pastor say about this?

Do you have a reason for not believing what he tells you?

In a nutshell you sinned a number of years ago, you no longer believe that sin, yet you think it has stopped you from being a Christian.
Why do you believe this, do you have a reason why your repentance has not been accepted by Jesus?

because for true repentance, one must believe they personally are forgiven. I’m not really sure right now that Jesus is mine...sometimes I believe he is, and other times I believe I am delusional as my fruit indicates I wasn’t a believer..or at least not anymore.

Amittai · Apr 5, 2020

One sows, and another reaps. At the time the farmer keeps on seeing bare soil, he's not reaping because he's not supposed to reap

We can't turn one grey hair black by worrying!

Assurance which we can't see has to be inferred. You're right, we can simply ask ourselves, what did my conscience tell me or has it gone numb? It's if we stop "worrying" that we've got to "worry"!

Are we caring for our fellows, especially in simple prayers - and taking in Scriptures - and resting well.

Jesus is YHWH · Apr 5, 2020

Nendem said:
I’ve done a lot of self-examination recently, and it’s been difficult to nail down for sure if I was a believer. I definitely thought I was, but in hindsight I’m not so sure. I was serious, and committed to it, but ultimately only God knows our hearts, and my doubt is if I really completely committed to Jesus 100% in my heart.

My prayers recently have been for God create in me a clean heart, to renew my mind, and to show me exactly what I need to do. I can say that I do want to know Him, I do want to be a Christian, and I do not want the things of the world. I just fear that my heart has been too hardened from sin that I will be unable to really believe and repent...but my hope is that God helps me with this.

That is great to hear and God knows your heart. If you desire to know and to please Him then keep believing that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Here are a few translations of the passage.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. NASB

And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him. NLT

But where there is no faith it is impossible truly to please Him; for the man who draws near to God must believe that there is a God and that He proves Himself a rewarder of those who earnestly try to find Him. Weymouth

Nendem · Apr 5, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
That is great to hear and God knows your heart. If you desire to know and to please Him then keep believing that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Here are a few translations of the passage.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. NASB

And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him. NLT

But where there is no faith it is impossible truly to please Him; for the man who draws near to God must believe that there is a God and that He proves Himself a rewarder of those who earnestly try to find Him. Weymouth

I certainly believe in God and want to be in communion with him again. Maybe I always have been, I don’t know for sure, but I certainly got off track for a bit and deeply wish it wouldn’t has happened...but I pray He grants me time and reconciles me back to Him.

Nendem · Apr 5, 2020

Amittai said:
One sows, and another reaps. At the time the farmer keeps on seeing bare soil, he's not reaping because he's not supposed to reap

We can't turn one grey hair black by worrying!

Assurance which we can't see has to be inferred. You're right, we can simply ask ourselves, what did my conscience tell me or has it gone numb? It's if we stop "worrying" that we've got to "worry"!

Are we caring for our fellows, especially in simple prayers - and taking in Scriptures - and resting well.

there was a time I didn’t care...I was abroad living for myself not keeping my mind on the things above. I had a wake up call that caused me to step back and ask what in the world have I been doing...it’s confusing and has been difficult but ultimately I prefer to be here dealing with things than somewhere else not caring...

Tolworth John · Apr 6, 2020

Nendem said:
because for true repentance, one must believe they personally are forgiven. I’m not really sure right now that Jesus is mine...sometimes I believe he is, and other times I believe I am delusional as my fruit indicates I wasn’t a believer..or at least not anymore.

Two things:-
Do you believe that Jesus is your saviour?
Are you sorry for what ever this ancient sin was?

No where does Jesus say that he quantifies or qualifies our sorrow for our sin, neither does he do this with our love or obedience.
The promise is that he WILL forgive us our sins so rather than doubt thank him for what he has done and get on with obeying him.

Don't wallow in the past, live now for Jesus.

Nendem · Apr 6, 2020

Tolworth John said:
Two things:-
Do you believe that Jesus is your saviour?
Are you sorry for what ever this ancient sin was?

No where does Jesus say that he quantifies or qualifies our sorrow for our sin, neither does he do this with our love or obedience.
The promise is that he WILL forgive us our sins so rather than doubt thank him for what he has done and get on with obeying him.

Don't wallow in the past, live now for Jesus.

I believe Jesus is the Messiah. He is the King. But in my heart of hearts, I fear he’s not my king, that I pushed him away and the Holy Spirit left me. And at other times, I feel he never was my king or else I wouldn’t have strayed like I did..that is my dilemma. I feel like an apostate, like I didn’t heed the warnings of fleeing from temptation, and am now facing the consequences...

Albion · Apr 6, 2020

Nendem said:
I believe Jesus is the Messiah. He is the King. But in my heart of hearts, I fear he’s not my king, that I pushed him away and the Holy Spirit left me.

Messiah, king, in communion with, etc.

The inability to describe him as your God and Savior is looking increasingly significant.

I feel he never was my king or else I wouldn’t have strayed like I did..that is my dilemma. I feel like an apostate,

Well, it may be that you are an apostate by definition, based on these posts, but that wouldn't be the case if you never really had accepted him as Lord and Savior.

Am I Apostate?

Active Member

baggage apostate

Active Member

Facilitator

Confessional Lutheran

baggage apostate

Disciple of Jesus

Well-Known Member

my Lord and my God !

baggage apostate

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

baggage apostate

my Lord and my God !

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Facilitator

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency