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thats better than calling yourself a "regressive..." lolWell, then I'm going to consider myself a tragressive.
thanks for the article link..... it sums up perfectly where I find myself as an adventist.... I had read it before, but lost it after several computer changes...Haven't been here for a while nice to see the name change, kind of scary that it took so long however.
Anyway here is an article I wrote on the subject which may help people decide if they are Progressive Traditional or Moderate SDA's
http://newprotestants.com/traditio.htm
Maybe in America. But the South Pacific division is very liberal. We're sending our pastors (our pastors can only come out of one collage- avondale collage) to hillsong to see what they're doing and follow it, etc, you know, into liberal style music, but, the thing which really shows just how liberal this conference is getting is the fact that they're teaching evolution instead of creation to our pastors when they go to avondale collage to get their degrees.Well if you are traditional with only progressive tendancies you will find life in the SDA church far less stressful but you might have to reign in those progressive tendancies sometimes.
Maybe in America. But the South Pacific division is very liberal. We're sending our pastors (our pastors can only come out of one collage- avondale collage) to hillsong to see what they're doing and follow it, etc, you know, into liberal style music, but, the thing which really shows just how liberal this conference is getting is the fact that they're teaching evolution instead of creation to our pastors when they go to avondale collage to get their degrees.
Note I totally disagree with this sort of behavior.
Anyway, since our pastors are taught to be liberal, our people are liberal. "Traditional" SDA's are few and far between. Its a hard, rocky road being a traditionalist.
Your kidding right?! Does the president of the General Conferance (whatever he is called if we have one) know about it?
More liberal than the United States? The U.S. seems to be the most liberal to me (of course it differs with each State conference, but it seems like the majority of American Adventists are more liberal). There are even a few charismatic Adventist churches near our church that my grandparents have taken me to before where they ignore a lot of foundational Adventist teachings.
I think the number of conservatives/traditionals is shrinking. Many conservatives now identify themselves as "Historic Adventists" because of the big shift in Adventism towards new theology (it's mainly taking place in our schools). There are countless of these Historic Adventist ministries on the web, but I'm not sure they're growing.
Historic Adventists go way beyond conservatives in trying to guard against any progressive or non-traditional teachings from creeping into the church. It seems to me, from looking at many of the historic SDA (many of which have broken off from the main church and formed independent groups) sites and reading the materials that they send us in the mail or leave on our cars occasionally, that their main focus is on labeling the mainstream Adventist Church "Babylon" and calling people to come out of her. They usually object to the GC leadership and accuse them of apostasizing and leading ordinary members astray into false teachings. Their priority is not where it should be, on spreading the gospel to the world, and they tend to be very legalistic. I don't see how a movement can grow when its members exhibit such a harsh and critical spirit, but they do have a following, and perhaps the Internet has helped because it tends to polarize people who might otherwise be sitting on the fence.
By the way, I attended an Adventist college, and I did not see any evidence that they were trying to undermine traditional Adventist teachings. Everyone in the theology department there was very conservative except for one teacher, who is gone now because he left the church. Sure, there were some more liberal professors in other departments, but they never caused me to have any doubts or tried to convince me that I had to believe the way they did. My college experience gave me a good understanding of Adventism. I grew up Adventist but attended public schools most of my life (except for a couple of years in Adventist elementary schools), so college was really the first time that I was formally educated about what Adventists believe.
Sunrunner said:Well, some schools are different than others I suppose. Ever heard of Walla Walla though?
Is the general conference the south pacific one or the specific area I'm in? I know that the south pacific conference (the overall one for Australia, New Zealand and a bunch of islamds) recently booted our south island president (the president in this particular part of New Zealand) a year early because of the sort of stuff going on hereYour kidding right?! Does the president of the General Conferance (whatever he is called if we have one) know about it?
Maybe in America. But the South Pacific division is very liberal. We're sending our pastors (our pastors can only come out of one collage- avondale collage) to hillsong to see what they're doing and follow it, etc, you know, into liberal style music, but, the thing which really shows just how liberal this conference is getting is the fact that they're teaching evolution instead of creation to our pastors when they go to avondale collage to get their degrees.
unless of course they were created that way.... that then opens another can of worms....From the first page of this thread:
I would imagine that most every SDA college will teach evolutionary theory. You would not be prepared to work in many of the sciences without knowing the theory. Theology Students at many SDA schools take special science courses which amount to basically introductory course dealing with biology, geology, astronomy etc. They would not be much of a course without dealing with the evolutionary aspects of each of those areas. So yes our schools do teach evolution and they should. Even if you don't believe in the full evolutionary theory from single celled to complex organisms you would expect a college level education to deal with the topic. And frankly you really can't get by the idea of evolution even if you are a literalist who believes in 6 literal days of creation and very recent 6000-10,000 year creation. Because those lions and crocs sure don't have teeth made to eat vegetable matter.
From the first page of this thread:
I would imagine that most every SDA college will teach evolutionary theory. You would not be prepared to work in many of the sciences without knowing the theory. Theology Students at many SDA schools take special science courses which amount to basically introductory course dealing with biology, geology, astronomy etc. They would not be much of a course without dealing with the evolutionary aspects of each of those areas. So yes our schools do teach evolution and they should. Even if you don't believe in the full evolutionary theory from single celled to complex organisms you would expect a college level education to deal with the topic. And frankly you really can't get by the idea of evolution even if you are a literalist who believes in 6 literal days of creation and very recent 6000-10,000 year creation. Because those lions and crocs sure don't have teeth made to eat vegetable matter.
Professor Walter J. Veith said:Carnivores: Carnivores kill and eat other animals and in the case of carnivorous mammals, they are classified as such on the strength of their teeth. A carnivore is equipped with the necessary weapons to kill and catch other animals, but this equipment need not necessarily have been designed for that purpose. Yes, possessing the equipment pre-adapts an organism to become a carnivore but this need not have been its original disposition. Panda bears, for example, are classified as carnivores on the strength of their teeth, but they eat bamboo. The same type of teeth can kill and tear flesh, but as in the case of the Panda bear, that need not be what they were designed for. The same can be said for the whole family Ursidae, the bears, that subsist largely on a vegetarian diet eating mainly berries. It is true that they will eat fish if available and can be opportunist carnivores, but they are equally at home on the fields grazing alongside buffalo.
Carnivores are not only adapted for meat eating in terms of their teeth, but their intestines are also shorter than those of herbivores. It is very interesting that diet has an amazing effect on intestinal structure. Intestines have a tremendous capacity for growth, and if sections are removed during operations, some parts can regenerate and grow back to their original length. Carnivores have short intestines because meat does not contain fiber and a short intestine is thus advantageous so that the food does not remain trapped in the intestines for long periods of time. Also, the food of carnivores is high-energy food that is absorbed rapidly. Carnivores whose diets are changed to herbivorous diets adapt rapidly to these diets and subsist very well on them. Lions will also preferably eat the contents of the rumen of a kill first. The rumen contains fermented plant products, and there are numerous accounts of lions and other carnivores that were raised on plant diets such as grains and would not touch meat even if presented to them. Dogs and cats can also subsist very well on vegetarian diets and in fact live much longer and are less aggressive on such diets. The teeth of these animals that act as shears could equally well have been used to shred tough plants in the past, and the fact that they dont do so now could simply be as a result of the destruction of their original food source. There is plenty of evidence in the palaeontological record that far greater varieties of plants existed in the past than exist today.
Destruction of habitat changes the diets of animals even in our day. Chipmunks traditionally eat seeds in the forests, but with acid rain leaving its mark, food sources are often becoming inadequate, and it is not unusual to see these cute herbivorous animals tearing away at road kills to augment their diets with meat. This is a case of a herbivore becoming a meat scavenger as a result of changing circumstances. . . .
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