Am a King James Bible Believer

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ViaCrucis

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The Greek is clear that it is father and mother

Luke 2:33 καὶ ἦν ὁ πατὴρ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἡ μήτηρ 4 θαυμάζοντες ἐπὶ τοῖς λαλουμένοις περὶ αὐτοῦ.

πατὴρ -
GK G4252 | S Gπ3962 πατήρ patēr 413x

a father, Mt. 2:22; 4:21, 22; spc. used of God, as the Father of man by creation, preservation, etc., Mt. 5:16, 45, 48; and peculiarly as the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Mt. 7:21; 2 Cor. 1:3; the founder of a race, remote progenitor, forefather, ancestor, Mt. 3:9; 23:30, 32; an elder, senior, father in age, 1 Jn. 2:13, 14; a spiritual father, 1 Cor. 4:15; father by origination, Jn. 8:44; Heb. 12:9; used as an appellation of honor, Mt. 23:9; Acts 7:2 → ancestor; father.

μήτηρ -
GK G3613 | S G3384 μήτηρ mētēr 83x
a mother, Mt. 1:18; 12:49, 50, et al. freq.; a parent city, Gal. 4:26; Rev. 17:5 → mother.

Citation:
Mounce, William D. Mounce Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament. Accordance electronic ed., version 3.8. Altamonte Springs: OakTree Software, 2011.

As Fitzmyer and others, I have researched say - Joseph in some Greek manuscripts are a copyist's correction.

.!) wondering (pl.).” The text-tradition is somewhat disturbed in this verse. The sg.verb ēn, “was,” is read by all mss.; the best Greek mss. (א, B, D, L, and many minuscules) have as subject following it, ho patēr autou, “his father” (which would agree with the sg.verb), but also “and mother,” which should demand a pl.verb. However, some mss. (A, Θand the Koine text-tradition) read Iōsēphinstead of ho patēr autou. “Joseph,” however, is clearly a copyist’s correction, which eliminates the designation of Joseph as “his father,” in view of the virginal conception of chap. 1. This is probably also the reason for the addition of autou, “his,” after hē mētēr, “mother” in many mss. (including ms. א). The real problem is the pl.ptc.thaumazontes, “wondering,” referring to both Joseph and Mary, despite the sg.verb, with which the verse begins. There is no reason to appeal to Hebrew usage to explain away a Greek inconcinnity here.[1]

[1]Joseph A. Fitzmyer, The Gospel according to Luke I–IX: Introduction, Translation, and Notes, vol. 28, Anchor Yale Bible (New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 2008), 428–429.

Even the briefest word study of the Lk. 2:33 picks the obvious error in the logic of those who follow the KJVO playbook.

Well, yes, "pater" is found in the oldest manuscripts, but I figured it wasn't the important point to address; since the argument presented was that the reading of "father" rather than "Joseph" is theologically in error. It seemed sufficient to simply point out that calling Joseph Jesus' father isn't wrong, because Joseph was Jesus' legal father. Thus to be bothered by this is fundamentally meaningless since it doesn't matter--it doesn't call into question the Virgin Birth since that is clearly and unambiguously present in Luke's nativity narrative.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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gordonhooker

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Well, yes, "pater" is found in the oldest manuscripts, but I figured it wasn't the important point to address; since the argument presented was that the reading of "father" rather than "Joseph" is theologically in error. It seemed sufficient to simply point out that calling Joseph Jesus' father isn't wrong, because Joseph was Jesus' legal father. Thus to be bothered by this is fundamentally meaningless since it doesn't matter--it doesn't call into question the Virgin Birth since that is clearly and unambiguously present in Luke's nativity narrative.

-CryptoLutheran

As it was my point to address that as well, I was simply agreeing with you and supporting your comment. I am sure that scholarly study is not going to make a difference to those who follow the KJVO playbook, all we can do is live in hope. :)

Also why I included the Greek text is because if you look at the KJV with Strongs markup Joseph is rendered Ἰωσήφ - Iōsēph whereas the Greek text uses πατὴρ - patēr. Some reading these posts may not have been aware of that.
 
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DeaconDean

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I have been involved in a study on "Textual Criticism" for going on 6 years now.

Here, I submit, is a blow and nails the coffin shut on the KJV being a "perfectly preserved" word of God.

"Seven manuscripts were used by Erasmus in Basel to compile the Greek text which was printed alongside his Latin translation.46

1. Codex 1eap, a minuscule containing the entire NT except for Revelation, dated to about the 12th century.

2. Codex 1r, a minuscule containing the book of Revelation except for the last 6 verses (Rev 22:16–21), dated to the 12th century.

3. Codex 2e, a minuscule containing the Gospels, dated to the 12th century.

4. Codex 2ap, a minuscule containing Acts and the Epistles, dated to the 12th century or later.

5. Codex 4ap, a minuscule containing Acts and the Epistles, dated to the 15th century.

6. Codex 7p, a minuscule containing the Pauline Epistles, dated to the 11th century.

7. Codex 817, a minuscule containing the Gospels, dated to the 15th century.

All of these were the property of the Dominican Library in Basel except for 2ap, which was obtained from the family of Johann Amerbach of Basel.47 Manuscripts 1eap and 1r had been borrowed from the Dominicans by Johannes Reuchlin. Erasmus borrowed them from Reuchlin. Thus Erasmus had 3 manuscripts of the Gospels and Acts; 4 manuscripts of the Pauline Epistles; and only 1 manuscript of Revelation.48 However, the main sources for his text were Codices 2e and 2ap.49 Erasmus did not compile his own Greek text from the manuscripts at his disposal, few as they were; instead, Codices 2e and 2ap themselves served as the printer’s copy for all the NT except Revelation.

They still contain Erasmus’ corrections written between the lines of the text and occasionally in the margins, which came from the other four manuscripts, though he made little use of some of them.50 A comparison between the manuscripts used by the printer and the printed text indicates that the printer did not accept every correction that Erasmus proposed, and that the printer made some revisions not authorized by Erasmus.51

For the book of Revelation, Erasmus had only one manuscript (1r). Since the text of Revelation was imbedded in a commentary by Andreas of Caesarea and thus difficult for the printer to read, Erasmus had a fresh copy made. The copyist himself misread the original at places, and thus a number of errors were introduced into Erasmus’ printed text.52 For example, in Revelation 17:4 Codex 1r and all other Greek manuscripts have the word ajkavqarta (“impure”), but Erasmus’ text reads ajkaqavrthto", a word unknown in Greek literature. In a similar fashion, the words kai; parevstai (“and is to come”) in 17:8 were misread as kaivper e[stin (“and yet is”).53 These and other errors produced by the scribe who made the copy of Revelation for the printer are still to be found in modern editions of the TR, such as the widely used version published by the Trinitarian Bible Society.54

Because Codex 1r was missing its last page and thus the last six verses of Revelation (22:16–21), Erasmus retranslated these verses from the Latin Vulgate, and he honestly admitted in the Annotationes that he had done so.55 But again, this produced, by my count, twenty errors in his Greek NT which are still in the TR today.56 They have no Greek manuscript support whatsoever.57 In other parts of the NT Erasmus occasionally introduced into the Greek text material taken from the Latin Vulgate where he thought his Greek manuscripts were defective. For example, in Acts 9:6 the words trevmwn te kai; qambw’n ei\pe, kuvrie, tiv me qevlei" poih’saiÉ kai; oJ kuvrio" pro;" aujtovn (“And he trembling and astonished said, Lord,what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him”) were inserted by Erasmus at this point because they were in the Vulgate. He frankly admitted in his Annotationes that he took the words from the parallel passage in Acts 26:14. Though still found in the TR, the words have absolutely no Greek manuscript support.

With so few manuscripts from which to establish his Greek text, Erasmus was bound to adopt a reading which would ultimately, in light of future manuscript discoveries, prove to be in error. This is especially true in the book of Revelation where Erasmus had only one manuscript. Since no two manuscripts agree exactly, it is essential that manuscripts be compared to determine where the errors lie. But since that was not possible in Erasmus’ case, his text in Revelation is limited by the accuracy of his one manuscript. An example of this problem can be seen in Revelation 20:12. Following Codex 1r, the text of Erasmus and the TR read eJstw’ta" ejnwvpion tou’ qeou’ (“standing before God”). However, all other Greek manuscripts read eJstw’ta" ejnwvpion tou’ qrovnou (“standing before the throne”).58

Besides the seven previously mentioned manuscripts which Erasmus used in Basel for his Greek text, his Annotationes indicate that he had examined and collated a few other manuscripts in his various travels. One of these, which can be identified with certainty, is Codex 69, a 15th century manuscript of the entire NT with minor gaps. In a few places Erasmus selected distinctive readings from this manuscript.59"
________________________________________________________________

46 Cornelis Augustijn, Erasmus: His Life, Works, and Influence, trans. J. C. Grayson, (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1991), p. 93; Brown, “Date of Erasmus’ Latin Translation,” p. 364; de Jonge, “Novum Testamentum a Nobis Versum,” p. 404; Yamauchi, “Erasmus’ Contributions,” pp. 10–11; Bentley, Humanists and Holy Writ, pp. 127–32.

47 Brown, “Date of Erasmus’ Latin Translation,” pp. 364–5. Amerbach (c. 1445–1513) was the first humanist printer in Basel and Froben’s predecessor and teacher. See Bloch, “Erasmus and the Froben Press,” p. 112.

48 Clinton Branine (The History of Bible Families and the English Bible [Greenwood, IN: Heritage Baptist University, n.d.], p. 12) makes the fantastic claim that Erasmus used 2nd century manuscripts of the Gospels, Acts, and Epistles, and 5th century manuscripts of the Gospels.

49 K. W. Clark, “Observations on the Erasmian Notes in Codex 2,” Texte und Untersuchungen 73 (1959): 749–56; Bentley, Humanists and Holy Writ, p. 127. Tarelli (“Erasmus’s Manuscripts of the Gospels,” pp. 159ff.) suggests that Erasmus may have also consulted Codex E, which was also the property of the Dominicans at Basel, but, as Bentley has shown (Humanists and Holy Writ, pp. 129–30), the evidence points in the opposite direction.

50 Clark, “Observations on the Erasmian Notes in Codex 2,” p. 751; Bo Reicke, “Erasmus und die neutestamentliche Textgeschichte,” Theologische Zeitschrift 22 (July–August 1966): 259.

51 Clark, “Observations on the Erasmian Notes in Codex 2,” p. 755.

52 Rummel, Erasmus’ Annotations on the New Testament, p. 38. Some of these errors can conveniently be found in Frederick H. Scrivener, A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament, 2nd ed. (Cambridge: Deighton, Bell, and Co., 1874), pp. 382–83, n. 2.

53 The marginal note in the old Scofield Reference Bible corrects this error (p. 1346).

54 H KAINH DIAQHKH. This version is subtitled The New Testament: The Greek Text Underlying the English Authorised Version of 1611. My copy is not dated, though it was published in 1976. See Andrew J. Brown, The Word of God Among All Nations: A Brief History of the Trinitarian Bible Society, 1831–1981 (London: Trinitarian Bible Society, 1981), p. 130.


55 Rummel, Erasmus’ Annotations on the New Testament, p. 193, n. 15.

56 v. 16: insertion of tou’ before Dauivd and ojrqrinov" instead of prwi>nov"; v. 17: aorist tense e[lqe twice instead of the present e[rcou, aorist tense ejlqevtw instead of the present ejrcevsqw, insertion of kaiv after ejrcevsqw, present tense lambanevtw instead of the aorist labevtw, and insertion of tov before u{dwr; v. 18: summartuvromai gavr instead of marturw’ ejgwv, present tense ejpitiqh’/ instead of the aorist ejpiqh’/, pro;" tau’ta instead of ejp¾ aujtav, and omission of tw’/ before the last occurrence of biblivw/; v. 19: present tense ajfairh’/ instead of the aorist ajfevlh/, omission of tou’ before the first occurrence of biblivou, ajfairhvsei instead of ajfelei’, biblivou instead of tou’ xuvlou, insertion of kaiv before tw’n gegrammevnwn, and omission of tw’/) before the last occurrence of biblivw/; v.21: insertion of hJmw’n before ÆIhsou’ and insertion of uJmw’n after pavntwn. See Scrivener, A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament, p. 382, n. 2; Metzger, Text of
the New Testament, p. 100, n. 1.

57 Scrivener, A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament, p. 382.


58 Again, the old Scofield Reference Bible corrects this error (p. 1351).

59 See Bentley, Humanists and Holy Writ, p. 126; Brown, “Date of Erasmus’ Latin Translation,” p. 368."


Erasmus and the Textus Receptus, William Combs, Detroit Baptist Seminary Journal, Spring 1996, pp. 35-53, specifically pp. 45-48

So, what did we learn?

1. Even though Erasmus' text was never called "Textus Receptus", every version afterwards traces it roots back to Erasmus and his work.

2. While compiling his Greek text, Erasmus actually had very few Greek MSS at his disposal.'

3. When Erasmus was finished, and sent his work to be published, we can show that the publisher did not accept Erasmus' text, and added to his text.

4. Erasmus had only one (1) Greek MSS for Revelation, and it was almost unreadable. Having a new one re-wrote, the copist misread, and thus, a number of "errors" was introduced.

5. Erasmus introduced a Greek word, that at the time, was previously unknown.

6. Rev. 17 contains at least two (2) errors that to this day, are still to be found in the text.

7. The last six (6) verses of Revelation 22 cannot be found in ANY Greek MSS. Thusly, Erasmus has to "back translate" from the Latin to the Greek. And here again, just in these six (6) verses, some 20 errors are introduced.

8. In various places prior to the book of Revelation, it is clear also that Erasmus did not accept every reading from the Greek. At least two (2) places in the book of Acts, Erasmus changed the readings. And as shown: "Though still found in the TR, the words have absolutely no Greek manuscript support."

And no matter what the KJVonly crowd says, every version except the NWT, traces its roots back to Erasmus' work.

The death nail for the KJVO crowd!

God Bless

Till all are one.


 
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tkolter

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Most KJV preference is on grounds other than Bible accuracy I do consider it a quite good translation and since they are highly affordable you can buy them at the Dollar Tree for a dollar in paperback its one many can have at home. But are other ones as good sure, are some Bibles not as good perhaps some of the more politically correct ones like the Queen James Bible that came out literally softened or removed anti-homosexual and related verses if I recall a serious altering of the texts so poor translations can happen. But if you use a NKJV or ESV or NIV its not bad its more likely its easier to read and is therefore more easily accessible but the core message is there and it has caused people to come to God that means they are to me quite adequate.

I would argue the KJV has the core message and any weaknesses in the text is secondary or an issue of the old language having some issues to modern readers who don't bother to delve deeper in the older English use.

Take calling Jesus father Joseph well he was a step-father in more modern use with God the Father of Jesus so its in fact quite proper to use either Joseph or father for Jesus Earthly father. I see no conflict.
 
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KJBBeliever

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In your eyes though, everything is perverted when compared to the KJV.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Satan has been trying to corrupt the word of God since the beginning
There is alot of perversion in these last days i'm not the only one who sees that
see the verses that i have already posted, i exposed the niv, esv, and nasb


- that the KJV wasn't the first Bible to be translated into English. If there is anyone who uses an earlier Bible, to them, the KJV would be modern.

There were 6 english translations before the KJB in 1611. But none of them was perfect a professional translation that took 7 years was done and that was the book God chose and the KJB is still widely popular.

- that people were Christians and serving God long before the KJV was even thought of.
Of course they were English wasnt invented until the 1500s AD

- that the disciples and Jesus preached the word of God, without the benefit of the KJV.

The KJB faithfully translate the Hebrew and Greek into English, God has given us a perfect translation.

- that God saved you through a translation of the Bible that you now regard as "corrupt".
Yes i was saved after reading the good news perversion which is all i had at the time. But when i saw and believed (comparing verses to the KJB) that the KJB was right 12 years later i believed the KJB is perfect so a person can get saved after reading a modern perversion or having no bible at all, but that does not mean that the modern perversion is correct there is alot of disadvantages in only having a modern perversion.

- that there is no verse that says that only the KJV is true; as I said, it was an online group that told you this, not the Lord himself.

please understand these verses they will help see that there is a perfect word
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Aside from this is the question, why would God, who is truth, even allow CORRUPT versions of his word to exist - never mind save, bless and minister to people through them?

2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
God has given men freewill they can choose what to do what they want
A question to that question would be why has God allowed the KJB to exist for 407 years?
Why have people chosen to corrupt or change or ignore the word of God?

Clearly, it seems, you have no answer to these questions, you just keep posting verses from the KJV and stating that other Bibles are corrupt. They aren't.

I have been comparing the main modern perversions to the King James Bible the errors in the modern perversions are easily seen. There are 100's of comparisons to be made.
i have a bible that is 100% true i have confidence in it this word judges me and everyone else, alot of people dont like the authority of the word of God because the Word tells us what to do, i know it is a bit of a shock to find out that the KJB is correct and that the modern perversions have errors in them, the devil wants the word of God changed, God has preserved His word for us in the last days, i know in my own life that big changes happened when i became KJB only for the better, much better, i hope that people will see the truth in the KJB it will benefit them a huge way i challenge any christian to read the KJB only for 2 weeks and see what happens or if You have any questions about the KJB and the bible version issue

KJB Articles
Chick Cartoon Tracts
 
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KJBBeliever

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I have been involved in a study on "Textual Criticism" for going on 6 years now.
that doesnt sound like a long time to me can You tell us which English Book is the perfect word of God?
Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Here, I submit, is a blow and nails the coffin shut on the KJV being a "perfectly preserved" word of God.
i find it hard to trust a calvinist thats a whole other issue just saying

And no matter what the KJVonly crowd says, every version except the NWT, traces its roots back to Erasmus' work.

The death nail for the KJVO crowd!

The translators of the King James Bible knew about Erasmus.
i dont think this is a death nail at all i already have the perfect word of God and im not changing.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Any by the way have You seen numeric patterns in the King James Bible?
 
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DeaconDean

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that doesnt sound like a long time to me

It's not a long time, but its longer than any you have studied.

can You tell us which English Book is the perfect word of God?

None of them are "perfect".

In fact, the only "perfect" thing that ever was in this world was the Living Word, Jesus Christ.

i find it hard to trust a calvinist thats a whole other issue just saying

Calvinist not withstanding, Calvinism has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. You are simply re-directing.

The translators of the King James Bible knew about Erasmus.

Never said they didn't.

Just pointing out that the KJ Translators got it wrong in several places. If you sin once in your lifetime, you cannot be perfect. If the KJ Translators got it wrong, as it has been shown, it can't be perfect.

i dont think this is a death nail at all i already have the perfect word of God and im not changing.

Have tried to get you to stop? No. Just showing you, and you ignore the fact, the KJV is not "perfect".

Any by the way have You seen numeric patterns in the King James Bible?

What has that to do with the price of eggs in China?

If nothing else, you have been shown that based on nothing but Mt. 27:10, the KJ Translators got it wrong.

Period. And no matter what you or any KJVO says can change that fact!

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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tkolter

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I want to say this arguing about Bibles doesn't look good to outsiders and fanaticism over a book looks even worse to them, I love my KJV, its wonderful but its not the only decent Bible. Some extreme versions are an issue but not the NIV or NKJV or ESV all translations have some issues its written and translated by men and women of faith but failed men and women who sin. The Holy Ghost guides them and they do in my view with honest love to the sacred writings do a good job each time if they are clear of biases. I'm a servant of God, one of His Children and will serve and not divide the body with nonsense lets pick our fights better. God wills it that His people not be divided and when Satan moves into the faith and undermines it already with liberal interpretations and going away from the scripture as a Fundamentalist I have to pick my fights this one isn't that important is it in the scheme of things.
 
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DeaconDean

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I want to say this arguing about Bibles doesn't look good to outsiders and fanaticism over a book looks even worse to them, I love my KJV, its wonderful but its not the only decent Bible. Some extreme versions are an issue but not the NIV or NKJV or ESV all translations have some issues its written and translated by men and women of faith but failed men and women who sin. The Holy Ghost guides them and they do in my view with honest love to the sacred writings do a good job each time if they are clear of biases. I'm a servant of God, one of His Children and will serve and not divide the body with nonsense lets pick our fights better. God wills it that His people not be divided and when Satan moves into the faith and undermines it already with liberal interpretations and going away from the scripture as a Fundamentalist I have to pick my fights this one isn't that important is it in the scheme of things.

Having been raised in an Independent Baptist, Fundamentalist church, it seems funny to hear what you say and at the same time use the word "Fundamentalist".

"Fundamentalist" does not mean what it did back in my day. The more "hard-core" KJVO people are also the "hard-core" Fundamentalists.

But I will say this and I back that position 100%. In 1878, when Fundamentalism came into its own, they said:

"14 point creed of the Niagara Bible Conference of 1878:
1. The verbal, plenary inspiration of the Scriptures in the original manuscripts."

Other than Jesus Christ, the ONLY Perfect being in this entire world, the other being the original autographs, penned by the Prophets and Apostles themselves.

Sadly, the Prophets autographs were lost about 400 years before Christ, and the autographs of the Apostles were lost within a century of the death of the last Apostle.

The KJV has served the church well for the last 400 years, and it will serve the church for another 400 years if the Lord tarries.

But perfect? NO!

And as long as there are idiots that argue such, I'll fight the good fight. (Cf. 1 Tim. 6:12)

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Strong in Him

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see the verses that i have already posted, i exposed the niv, esv, and nasb

No you didn't; you only showed how they are different from the KJV.
As I said, because your starting point is that the KJV is perfect, everything that differs to it must be a perversion as far as you are concerned.

Why don't you compare translations with the original Hebrew and Greek texts? THEN you will be able to see where the "perversions" are.
Could it be because you don't want to find out that the blessed and apparently infallible KJV has differences that are not in the original?

There were 6 english translations before the KJB in 1611. But none of them was perfect a professional translation that took 7 years was done and that was the book God chose and the KJB is still widely popular.

I know, and it's very helpful Bible for some.
But "widely popular" is not the same as "perfect".

Of course they were English wasnt invented until the 1500s AD

Yes - my point being that the truth existed and was being told long before the KJV came along.
IT is not the embodiment of truth, that is Jesus.

The KJB faithfully translate the Hebrew and Greek into English, God has given us a perfect translation.

Nope.
You've said yourself that there are/have been a few versions of the KJV. So which one was the truth - the first one, or did people keep producing the KJV til they got it right?
What about manuscripts that were discovered long after the KJV was produced?

Yes i was saved after reading the good news perversion

Did you thank your nan for giving you a perversion of the truth?
Did you thank the God of truth for saving you through a corrupt version?

But when i saw and believed (comparing verses to the KJB) that the KJB was right 12 years later i believed the KJB is perfect

You believed, or some online group persuaded you?

so a person can get saved after reading a modern perversion or having no bible at all, but that does not mean that the modern perversion is correct

It doesn't mean it's automatically incorrect because it differs from the KJV.
If it differs from the original Greek; yes, but not an English translation.

please understand these verses they will help see that there is a perfect word

The idea that God's word is true and pure is not in question.
The idea that the KJV alone is God's word, is.

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

There you are then.
Peter preached the word of God to them. Was it the KJV that he preached - clearly not. So the word of God must be something OTHER than the KJV, since it hadn't been produced in Peter's day.

A question to that question would be why has God allowed the KJB to exist for 407 years?

That doesn't prove that it is a perfect Bible and the true word of God.

Why have people chosen to corrupt or change or ignore the word of God?

They haven't - you just refuse to accept that.

I have been comparing the main modern perversions to the King James Bible the errors in the modern perversions are easily seen.

This is what you're not seeing/understanding.
Your starting point, original premise and firmly entrenched belief is that the KJV is perfect, the true and pure word of God. Therefore anything that differs in any way from the KJV, you have written off as a perversion.

A serious and proper discussion with you on this subject is impossible because of your already fixed position. Even when you are shown evidence that says to the contrary, you will not accept it. It's like, "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts."
If you wanted a real debate and chance to learn something, you would want to compare translations with the original Greek/Hebrew to find out what was actually written. Like I said, I guess you are scared to do this in case the KJV is found wanting.

i know it is a bit of a shock to find out that the KJB is correct and that the modern perversions have errors in them,

It might be if that were the case.

i hope that people will see the truth in the KJB it will benefit them a huge way i challenge any christian to read the KJB only for 2 weeks

I read the KJV only for a couple of years - it put me off and stopped me reading the Bible at all.

i hope that people will see the truth in the KJB

The TRUTH is also in the GNB Bible that you were reading back in 1996, or you would not have been converted by the God of truth who does not lie.
 
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Strong in Him

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a professional translation that took 7 years was done and that was the book God chose

I missed this before, but the KJV was not the book that God chose - quite simply because he converted you and millions of others, and still converts, through other translations of the Bible.

I used the New English Bible at school, then the Good News and now, mostly, use the NIV, though I have also used the Amplified, the NRSV and the Message Bibles.
 
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Bobber

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God has preserved His word for us in the last days, i know in my own life that big changes happened when i became KJB only for the better, much better, i hope that people will see the truth in the KJB it will benefit them a huge way i challenge any christian to read the KJB only for 2 weeks and see what happens or if You have any questions about the KJB and the bible version issue
I get it. You're a King James Only person. Yup all in English. So what about all the many other Bibles in the world that have been translated into other languages so the people can understand. Get rid of them all and demand all people have to learn not only English but the Shakespearean English of the 1600's? Do you really believe that's a weight or a responsibility that the people of all others lands have to bear?
 
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tkolter

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I think it has reached the point where all of are just feeding a troll I for one am going to back out of the conversation as it sure is not debate.

Agreed debate on this seems pretty pointless, like I said the message of the Lord and saving souls to bring them to God is most important many Bibles are more than good enough to do that, its mostly personal taste and preferences. So don't see the need to keep posting here either.
 
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DeaconDean

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This will be my last post too.

We know the op is of the KJVO crowd.

There are many statements in this thread on just how "perfect" the KJV is.

What the KJV Only crowd does not get, is that position also requires a belief in "cessation".

We know from the book of Acts that the Holy Spirits arrival was "announced" by the "mighty rushing wind" at Pentecost. (cf Acts 2)

At that moment, the Holy Spirit was to begin the work God and Christ said was His duty.

To the best of my limited knowledge, there have been only three (3) "perfect" things that have ever graced the face of the earth.
  1. God of the Old Testament
  2. God, in the Second person of the God-Head, Jesus Christ
  3. God, the Holy Spirit.
Lo and behold, as of the 1970's, we have the KJV Onlyists with "the Perfectly Preserved word of God, the KJV".

We know for a fact, that one duty of the Holy Spirit, even though some from Non-Denom and other groups might disagree, one of the jobs the Holy Spirit has is "convict the world of sin".

Another is the distribution of "spiritual gifts".

The Apostle Paul also said:

"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." -1 Cor. 13:10 (KJV)

Here is something to ponder:
  1. Many can say what they want, but how did the church survive without the KJV? This throws into question the salvation of billions prior to the KJV.
  2. Which version of the KJV is "perfect"? (The KJV has been revised about 5 times, the last in 1769, which is the one we use today.)
  3. If the KJV is "perfect" as the KJV Only crowd touts, that requires a belief in ceesationalism. Since the KJV is perfect, the work of the Holy Spirit, including conviction and distribution of spiritual gifts, has ceased. We now have: "That which is perfect" in the KJV.
  4. Where did the KJ Translators claim "inspiration"? (I've heard that argument so many times it makes me sick to hear it again)
  5. Now that "That which is perfect is come" (i.e.: the KJV) the church has to rely on fallable men in the pulpits.
  6. How come the KJ Translators included marginal notes about questionable texts/renderings, and now, they are just accepted as fact?
  7. Why did the KJV translators use marginal note showing alternate translation possibilities? If the English of the KJV is inspired of God, there would be no alternates!
  8. Is it not ridiculous to suggest that when the TR disagrees with the KJV that Greek TR has errors, but the KJV doesn't? Is this not the ultimate example of "translation worship"? (Reject the original in favour of the translation)
  9. If the KJV is error free in the English, then why did they fail to correctly distinguish between "Devil and Demons" (Mt 4:1-DIABOLOS and Jn 13:2-DAIMONIZOMAI) ; "hades and hell" (see Lk 16:23-HADES and Mt 5:22-GEENNA; Note: Hades is distinct from hell because hades is thrown into hell after judgement: Rev 20:14)
  10. How can you accept that the Textus Receptus is perfect and error free when Acts 9:6 is found only in the Latin Vulgate but absolutely no Greek manuscript known to man? Further, how come in Rev 22:19 the phrase "book of life" is used in the KJV when absolutely ALL known Greek manuscripts read "tree of life"?
  11. WHEN was the KJV "given by inspiration of God" - 1611, or any of the KJV major/minor revisions in 1613, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, and the last one in 1850?
  12. Where does the Bible teach that God will perfectly preserve His Word in the form of one seventeenth-century English translation?
  13. Is the Holy Spirit an "it" according to John 1:32; Romans 8:16, 26; and 1 Peter 1:11 in the KJV? [Again - you may not go the Greek for any "light" if you are a KJV-Onlyite!]
And this, is only the tip of the iceberg folks.

I'm outta here.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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KJBBeliever

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All King James Bible verses can You understand these?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Psalms 56:4 In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.
Psalms 56:10 In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word.
John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
 
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Strong in Him

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All King James Bible verses can You understand these?

I understand them perfectly.
None of them say that the KJV alone is, or has, the truth.

The fact is that you can't answer the points that many have made; only post verses about the truth of God's word, (which we all know and believe), insisting that, somehow, these prove the truth of the KJV.
They don't, but you can't or won't understand.
 
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tall73

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The KJB faithfully translate the Hebrew and Greek into English, God has given us a perfect translation.

Do you think that the marginal readings the translators of the KJV provided are also perfect?

Sometimes they propose alternate meanings to the text.
 
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