Alright ...So What Are The Options ...?

[KCKID]

With the exception of the most 'hardened' Bible believers (we have at least a couple on this forum) one's 'homosexuality' is probably reasoned by other Christians to be the result of biological or sociological factors. In other words, one's homosexual orientation or tendency is accepted by most (?) as being beyond the control of the individual whereas one's actually 'acting' on that orientation is seen to be 'the sin' ...right?

With that in mind, from a Christian perspective what are the options available for the homosexual person? Are they:

1. Pray to God and be 'delivered' from his/her homosexual orientation?

2. Seek 'professional' assistance in the form of therapy.

3. Marry someone of the opposite gender and do the best he/she can in a heterosexual relationship?

4. Remain celibant for the rest of his/her life?

5. Contemplate suicide if overwhelmed with guilt from the incessant influence of Christians whose role is seen to be to condemn them?

Notes:
1. Many people have prayed earnestly to God to be delivered from their homosexuality. It hasn't helped them deal with it but it HAS given them an extra burden to carry when Christians tell them that they haven't got enough faith.

2. Many people have sought 'professional' assistance and have been just as let down. Professional therapy is questionable at best ...useless at worst.

3. Many homosexuals HAVE married someone of the opposite gender. I have no way of knowing how 'fulfilling' such a relationship is or how long-term such a relationship can be. Living a lie is also very much a burden to carry for the individual. Being a homosexual+ostracized by God+living a lie.

4. Remaining celibant is an option. It always amuses me, however, when others (heterosexuals) who wouldn't DREAM of giving up sex will not hesitate to impose 'being celibant' on others.

5. Sadly, suicide has been the option for too many precious 'gay' people. Enough said.

What are your views on this issue?

 

[BreadAlone]

Well, one and four are the only real options. Celibacy is endorsed by Christ, and also by St. Paul (although, he just supports it in general, for everyone.)

And there ARE heterosexual people who aren't married who remail celibate too. I don't see how you can judge if people wouldn't "dream of giving up sex" for Christ, if it was one of his demands. But since it's not, the point's moot.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

It's called our cross, and we're meant to bear it. And we can ask the Lord to take it from us, and maybe he will. But know what he's done for us already, know his mercy already sending his son. Know the cross Jesus had to carry, what is ours to his? There are some who do not marry for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. I do not plan to marry, but I don't really have a sex drive. Do what you can, you prove nothing by not trusting God. You prove nothing saying God cannot help these people, and that they cannot be changed no matter what they do. Why put pressure on those that want it, or have gotten it? *sigh* Suicide, that just comes from life in general. Many crappy things happen to everyone. Some people don't have legs or arms, some in abusive homes. This sinful world sucks, and well, our Lord defeated sin and death, and I hope we can come together and bear it out while we can.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

To be fair, I'm heterosexual and I'm still celibate (technically I'm asexual since sex doesn't concern me, but if I had to pick). That said, I agree with BreadAlone.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

It's called our cross, and we're meant to bear it. And we can ask the Lord to take it from us, and maybe he will. But know what he's done for us already, know his mercy already sending his son. Know the cross Jesus had to carry, what is ours to his? There are some who do not marry for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. I do not plan to marry, but I don't really have a sex drive. Do what you can, you prove nothing by not trusting God. You prove nothing saying God cannot help these people, and that they cannot be changed no matter what they do. Why put pressure on those that want it, or have gotten it? *sigh* Suicide, that just comes from life in general. Many crappy things happen to everyone. Some people don't have legs or arms, some in abusive homes. This sinful world sucks, and well, our Lord defeated sin and death, and I hope we can come together and bear it out while we can.

Why do you plan not to marry ? How does a 20 year old kid nit have a sex drive ? Have you spoken to anyone regarding this ? ie: doctor or therapist ?

 

[FaithLikeARock]

Why do you plan not to marry ? How does a 20 year old kid nit have a sex drive ? Have you spoken to anyone regarding this ? ie: doctor or therapist ?

Just because you're celibate doesn't mean you don't have a sex drive. It just doesn't drive YOU.

 

[BreadAlone]

Just because you're celibate doesn't mean you don't have a sex drive. It just doesn't drive YOU.

Actually he said he didn't really have a sex drive..

 

[FaithLikeARock]

Actually he said he didn't really have a sex drive..

Biologically, everyone has a sex drive, even me and and I claimed the same. But it still doesn't mean that it drives you.

 

[BreadAlone]

Biologically, everyone has a sex drive, even me and and I claimed the same. But it still doesn't mean that it drives you.

Agreed.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Just because you're celibate doesn't mean you don't have a sex drive. It just doesn't drive YOU.

I am talking about the generally accepted definition of sex drive. You are deconstructing that. Any young male or female hasd a sex drive, if they are normal and healthy. So I would still like to hear his answer, as to why he will not marry and has NO sex drive.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Why do you plan not to marry ? How does a 20 year old kid nit have a sex drive ? Have you spoken to anyone regarding this ? ie: doctor or therapist ?

Uh, because of my aspirations probably. I've left it to God if I'm going to marry, because I'm not going to make an effort at it, it'll only bind me. I don't care for sex, and I can live life without it. I've only told a few people, and they don't understand, so I keep it to myself. So, If I do have a sex drive, it's not very powerful.

 

[KCKID]

Uh, because of my aspirations probably. I've left it to God if I'm going to marry, because I'm not going to make an effort at it, it'll only bind me. I don't care for sex, and I can live life without it. I've only told a few people, and they don't understand, so I keep it to myself. So, If I do have a sex drive, it's not very powerful.

It doesn't matter if others don't understand 'who you are.' You're not here to justify yourself.

Anyway, thanks for sharing that with us.

 

[jamielindas]

1. Pray to God and be 'delivered' from his/her homosexual orientation?

many of us did this... we did this for years... nothing changed... still gay... eventually it drove me to mental instability

2. Seek 'professional' assistance in the form of therapy.

The natural next step when you feel that god hasn't helped despite all your prayer. Oddly enough, the psychiatric community is pretty united on this one. In terms of mental health, they feel it's best to just accept your sexuality and they were willing to spend years helping you do that.

3. Marry someone of the opposite gender and do the best he/she can in a heterosexual relationship?

I can't think of any way to make two people more miserable. This isn't fair to either person involved. Even worse if they end up with children.

4. Remain celibant for the rest of his/her life?

Also... almost certain misery. Very few people can pull of life long celibacy. It turns out the priests weren't even doing it. Sex and sex drive are natural and should be embraced.

5. Contemplate suicide if overwhelmed with guilt from the incessant influence of Christians whose role is seen to be to condemn them?

I think all of us contemplated suicide somewhere around 1 and 2. Thinking that god hated us or was ignoring us or that something was wrong with us. Add people actually hating you as well and ending it all seems like a viable option. It's a horrible place to be and a dark chapter in my life.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Not all. Some people such as I believe Ishida is, are called to a higher purpose and are set apart for service unto God that may not include a wife and family and are known in the Bible as Eunuchs. It does not mean they are not normal or healthy. What it does mean is praise the Lord, sexual immorality will be one less temptation in life for them to have to deal with!


I am sure if God's plan changes at any time along the journey of his life, God will let him
know in more than one way, but he is content in the service to which he has been called.
He should be encouraged and not ashamed.

I am talking about the generally accepted definition of sex drive. You are deconstructing that. Any young male or female hasd a sex drive, if they are normal and healthy. So I would still like to hear his answer, as to why he will not marry and has NO sex drive.

 

[Polycarp1]

Well, the choice is quite clear to me: Either one accepts God's grace mediated by the Atonment of Christ, believes in his heart that Jesus is Lord and proclaims with his lips that He arose from the dead, presents himself for Holy Baptism if not already baptized, and thereafter tries to love according to Christ's commandments, repenting of his sin as convicted and led by the Holy Spirit. Or, of course, not -- but we are, I think, speaking of what God expects of each one of us.

Now, how this applies to sexual morality is pretty simple: one attempts to live a celibate life until he is united with a life mate in a committed relationship. (By 'committed relationship' I mean marriage, but the word has a bit of baggage with it: Adam and Eve did not get a marriage license from the Eden Town Clerk, or recite wedding vows before Melchizedek -- they were married because they committed to each other in marriage. The other is social custom that has accreted to that basic concept.)

Those two choices apply equally to straight, gay, or bi. For a small handful of people who identify as gay, it is God's will that He change their orientation in response to prayer -- for others (the vast majority of them), He does not. From all the evidence I've seen, God is capable of making that change; man without God's active intervention is not. And it is evil for anyone to convict another human being of failing to do something which only God can do.

The historical teaching of the Church is that celibacy is a charism, a gift, that God bestows on some, to enable them to live a healthy life permanently without an active sex life, to enable them to do that which He wills for their lives. Temporary celibacy pending finding a life partner to commit to in marriage is something all are expected to do -- but the emphasis is on 'temporary' -- it's a fast for a specific period of time, not a commitment never to eat, so to speak.

Nor is God, who created us all with sexuality for His own good purposes, out to condemn anyone for feeling sexual desire in accord with how they were made -- lust is the perversion of God's good gift of sexual desire to make another into a sex object to be used for gratification, not a beloved other person.

I personally see no reason why a gay person cannot enter into that sort of loving committed relationship, marriage in the original and basic sense. I am aware that same-sex unions have in general not been in accord with the Christian tradition -- but I believe that is due to a misunderstanding of their nature and of God's will for people with homosexual orientation.

As for guilt and suicide, we have it on the highest authority that God loves each one of us, just as we are. That some who claim to be his followers do not, and condemn what they don't understand, does not mean that's His will -- IMHO, it's the farthest thing from it.

 

[IamRedeemed]

No, the two choices you have laid out do not apply to straight, gay or bi. That is a delusion or if you prefer a doctrine of deception designed to preach to the itching ears that want to hear it, but it doesn't come from the Lord.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Woe to the blind who lead the blind down the path that leads to destruction. They are friends of the world and therefore enemies of God and have deceived themselves.

"You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God."
James 4:4

God's love makes crooked paths straight and dark paths light.

Some people preach that God will accept us "as we are". This is not true. A change of heart occurs in each one of us who truly belong to Him at the time we come to Him as the Holy Spirit draws us, and that change of heart is manifested in the form of repentance and acknowledgment of our sinful condition. At that point a life is CHANGED. From that day forward, we are to yield our will and our ways, to His will and His ways and if we are not already considerably aware in our consciousness that we are practicing sin of whatever type, the Word of God can clear that matter up for us.

Yes, God will receive a repentant one in the condition they are in,
but He loves us TOO MUCH to leave us that way.

Well, the choice is quite clear to me: Either one accepts God's grace mediated by the Atonment of Christ, believes in his heart that Jesus is Lord and proclaims with his lips that He arose from the dead, presents himself for Holy Baptism if not already baptized, and thereafter tries to love according to Christ's commandments, repenting of his sin as convicted and led by the Holy Spirit. Or, of course, not -- but we are, I think, speaking of what God expects of each one of us.

Now, how this applies to sexual morality is pretty simple: one attempts to live a celibate life until he is united with a life mate in a committed relationship. (By 'committed relationship' I mean marriage, but the word has a bit of baggage with it: Adam and Eve did not get a marriage license from the Eden Town Clerk, or recite wedding vows before Melchizedek -- they were married because they committed to each other in marriage. The other is social custom that has accreted to that basic concept.)

Those two choices apply equally to straight, gay, or bi. For a small handful of people who identify as gay, it is God's will that He change their orientation in response to prayer -- for others (the vast majority of them), He does not. From all the evidence I've seen, God is capable of making that change; man without God's active intervention is not. And it is evil for anyone to convict another human being of failing to do something which only God can do.

The historical teaching of the Church is that celibacy is a charism, a gift, that God bestows on some, to enable them to live a healthy life permanently without an active sex life, to enable them to do that which He wills for their lives. Temporary celibacy pending finding a life partner to commit to in marriage is something all are expected to do -- but the emphasis is on 'temporary' -- it's a fast for a specific period of time, not a commitment never to eat, so to speak.

Nor is God, who created us all with sexuality for His own good purposes, out to condemn anyone for feeling sexual desire in accord with how they were made -- lust is the perversion of God's good gift of sexual desire to make another into a sex object to be used for gratification, not a beloved other person.

I personally see no reason why a gay person cannot enter into that sort of loving committed relationship, marriage in the original and basic sense. I am aware that same-sex unions have in general not been in accord with the Christian tradition -- but I believe that is due to a misunderstanding of their nature and of God's will for people with homosexual orientation.

As for guilt and suicide, we have it on the highest authority that God loves each one of us, just as we are. That some who claim to be his followers do not, and condemn what they don't understand, does not mean that's His will -- IMHO, it's the farthest thing from it.

 

[jamielindas]

So what about the gay christians that pray and they feel they have proof that jesus loves them the way they are? They seem to interpret things different than you and feel that god does accept them...

I'm sure you will response with something to the effect of this being a deception of the devil.

So how does one know the difference between the will of god or a deception of the devil?

How does one know if god is testing your faith or the devil has a hold on you?

How does one know if god has blessed you with riches or if the devil has provided them?

Is the bible the way to distinguish? If so, why is it that so many people interpret it differently? If it can be interpreted do differently, how can it be a useful tool for this?

 

[IamRedeemed]

Clearly the interpretations are not the TRUE problem, as it is written that even those without the law, know right from wrong, as God has already written His laws on the hearts of every man, and therefore we are without excuse.
(Romans 1:18-20, Romans 2:14-15)

Jesus said by our fruits not our feelings, shall they know us. (Matthew 7:20) Jesus loves even those who will be judged, condemned and receive their reward which is the Second Death as opposed to Eternal life. Yet, because of our choices, not Christ's. He proved His love for us in that while we were yet sinners, He died for us.

But the proof that we love Him, Jesus said is that we obey His commands. (John 14:15)

Many seem to be well rehearsed in the "love thy neighbor" even if they don't understand it, but few are rehearsed in the first commandment that Jesus gave which is to Love the Lord your God with all your Heart, Mind, Soul and Strength.

Jesus said that within those two commandments are contained ALL of the law and the prophets.

If we seek to keep our lives as they are, we shall lose our lives in the Second Death, but if we seek to lose this life and follow Him, we shall gain eternal life. (Luke 17:33)

Jesus also said, in Luke 14:26-27
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple."

Salvation requires more than a mental ascent or acknowledgment of Jesus or even acknowledgment of the fundamentals of the faith. "Believe" is a living action word. What we believe will be evident in the fruit we produce. Even the devils believe and they tremble, yet there is no salvation for them. (James 2:19)

Jesus said, "these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me". (Mark 7:6)

Our actions, which produce fruit, bears the testimony of the master whom we serve.
By our fruit, they shall know us.

Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" (John 10:27)

Jesus also said,"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" and "..... Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". (John 3:3 and 5)

When a person "adopts" a religion, that is all it is, but it will in no way cause anyone to enter into the Kingdom of God, even if they are going to the right Church.

Some people "love" a Jesus they invented for themselves, a new age Jesus, but it isn't Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, and THAT Jesus cannot save their souls.

 

[jamielindas]

but the people who feel differently than you do feel it just as strongly and with just as much justification and passion. How can that be possible? How do you know who is correct?

 

[IamRedeemed]

How we "feel" is irrelevant to what God says is reality if our feelings oppose God. His reality is the only one that matters, as we will be judged according to God's reality and our personal feelings, if they defer, will have no effect on what God has spoken.

How we can know who is correct is that the Holy Spirit bears witness to us that God's Word is true.
So, if we align ourselves, and renew our thinking according to what God has said, we then know we are correct.

If one is having a problem with the Word of God, it may be that they have not been born again, and therefore do not have the Holy Spirit residing within them, leading and guiding them into all truth as God has promised. As it is written that the natural man does not receive the things of God, nor can he comprehend them, as they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)