• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

allegorical genesis

f U z ! o N

I fall like a sparrow and fly like a kite
Apr 20, 2005
1,340
59
38
Neptune
✟1,895.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
i got to thinking about Genesis the other day and what it means in an allegorical sense.

The allegorical message i get is this:

  • God created everything and rules over His creation
  • Adam and Eve represent all of humankind (the name Adam means Man)
  • We need Jesus due to the way we are, sinful desire
now this is thinking of Genesis as an allegory and not actual history.
what about the other parts though?

God tells the earth to bring forth life and such (evolution?)

Adam names all the animals could be considered to be a reference to scientists naming the animals of today

an even more wilder idea would be what if Noah's flood reprensented global warming and all the oceans rising which would flood areas all over the world? (just an idea) (don't take this as i actually meant it i was just thinking of symbolism and such)


what do you guys think?
 

Industriaan

Member
Jan 4, 2006
87
4
38
diest
Visit site
✟22,722.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
well, it is nice off u to think that way, but
1)genisis isn't the story of the creation of mankind, but the way the tribes in isreal came to be.
2) whenit was written, people honestly tought that is the way the earth and blablabla was created.
3)Why is u god the real one and not the gods of other²religions
4)what if u do not believe in any type god?

--

Ergo Bibamus
 
Upvote 0

DJ_Ghost

Trad Goth
Mar 27, 2004
2,737
170
54
Durham
Visit site
✟18,686.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Opethian said:
Just so you know, your name automatically appears above your posts, so you don't need to put it behind your posts every time. Hope that helps ;) .

My name also appears at reh top of any letter i write but it deosn't stop me signing it at the bottom. Like Joman i also carry this habbit into email and forum posts.

Ghost
 
Upvote 0

Hydra009

bel esprit
Oct 28, 2003
8,593
371
43
Raleigh, NC
✟33,036.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
f U z ! o N said:
Adam names all the animals could be considered to be a reference to scientists naming the animals of today
Well, in [bible]Genesis 2:18-20[/bible]

The animals are presented to Adam so that he could find a "helper" so he wouldn't be alone.

*edit - is it just me, or is the grammar messed up in the froum's /Bible?
 
Upvote 0

AnEmpiricalAgnostic

Agnostic by Fact, Atheist by Epiphany
May 25, 2005
2,740
186
51
South Florida
Visit site
✟26,987.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Hydra009 said:
is it just me, or is the grammar messed up in the froum's /Bible?
It’s messed up in the bible of all versions period. It’s what allows the tremendous latitude of interpretation necessary to reconcile it with reality. “Help meet” can be whatever you want it to be.
 
Upvote 0

Hydra009

bel esprit
Oct 28, 2003
8,593
371
43
Raleigh, NC
✟33,036.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
AnEmpiricalAgnostic said:
It’s messed up in the bible of all versions period. It’s what allows the tremendous latitude of interpretation necessary to reconcile it with reality. “Help meet” can be whatever you want it to be.
lol, you know what I mean.

for comparison: (New American Standard Bible)

"18. Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."
19. Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
20. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him."
 
Upvote 0

FSTDT

Yahweh
Jun 24, 2005
779
93
Visit site
✟1,390.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
f U z ! o N said:
i got to thinking about Genesis the other day and what it means in an allegorical sense.

The allegorical message i get is this:

  • God created everything and rules over His creation
  • Adam and Eve represent all of humankind (the name Adam means Man)
  • We need Jesus due to the way we are, sinful desire
now this is thinking of Genesis as an allegory and not actual history.
what about the other parts though?

God tells the earth to bring forth life and such (evolution?)

Adam names all the animals could be considered to be a reference to scientists naming the animals of today

an even more wilder idea would be what if Noah's flood reprensented global warming and all the oceans rising which would flood areas all over the world? (just an idea) (don't take this as i actually meant it i was just thinking of symbolism and such)


what do you guys think?
Probably, your ideas would have been completely alien to the authors of Genesis at the time.

How about this: the story of Noah's Flood begins with God being absent from mankind for 10 generations, followed by mankind becoming so corrupted that God wanted to destroy them -- with the exception of Noah. God asks Noah to perform a monumental task, and despite God's absence Noah obliges. For his blind obediance, Noah's actions save mankind and mark the beginning of God's established covenant with man.

The flood story paints Noah is an individual exemplifying the Virtue of Faith, so that allegorical message from the story is to have faith in God no matter if he's been gone, no matter if he askes you perform strange tasks, no matter if his demands seem strange or irrational, because the rewards for faith in God are infinitely great. For the early Israelites, the morals of the story were more important than the details.
 
Upvote 0

FreezBee

Veteran
Nov 1, 2005
1,306
44
Southern Copenhagen
✟1,704.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
f U z ! o N said:
(don't take this as i actually meant it i was just thinking of symbolism and such)

Then, how are we to take it?


DJ_Ghost said:
My name also appears at reh top of any letter i write but it deosn't stop me signing it at the bottom. Like Joman i also carry this habbit into email and forum posts.

That makes three of us :wave:


- FreezBee
 
Upvote 0

Buho

Regular Member
Jun 16, 2005
512
27
47
Maryland, USA
Visit site
✟23,307.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Industriaan said:
well, it is nice off u to think that way, but
1)genisis isn't the story of the creation of mankind, but the way the tribes in isreal came to be.
2) whenit was written, people honestly tought that is the way the earth and blablabla was created.
3)Why is u god the real one and not the gods of other²religions
4)what if u do not believe in any type god?

1. I can point you to a few Hebrew word studies on Genesis that would cast serious doubt onto what you wrote. Additionally, do you know of ancient commentaries that said as much? I don't know of any. The midrash doesn't count -- it's too new.

2. Your point two contradicts your point one. I'm confused.

3a. The Judeo-Christian god is written about in the world's most copied and preserved ancient literature with phenominal accuracy unparalleled in other ancient writings.
3b. If you read the Judeo-Christian writings, you can illicit from them tremendous inerrancy, a lack of contradictions, and the dabbling of a hand greater than the authors who wrote it.
3c. Thousands of years ago a savior was predicted to come and do a bunch of stuff. Two thousand years ago, hundreds of years after the predictions, a dude fulfilled the prophecies. The existance of this dude can be verified historically (via extrabiblical Roman accounts, archaeological digs, and multiple first-hand testimonies). Human meddling of text can be ruled out when evidence is inspected. This is strong evidence that the Judeo-Christian god exists, has some super-human ability to predict the future, and is able to manipulate this universe.
3d. This same god of the Jews and Christians speaks of other gods and says they are false. When inspected and compared, non-Christian gods over the past 2000 years exhibit the same traits as the false gods that the Judeo-Christian god speaks of. This leads me to believe that that one is true and the others are being driven by the same personality that's been driving all the false gods, namely Satan, as described in these phenominal historical writings which are allegedly authored not by man but by a god.
3e. This historical savior dude claims to have come from the one true God and condemns those that worship other gods. The amazing supernatural feats of this dude (for instance, his resurrection from death) can be verified historically, so this dude has some authority to say these things.
3f. If there are other gods, the god of this dude is greater than the others.

3g. The Judeo-Christian god is different from every other god in history, has more positive historical evidence for him than any other god, and can be seen changing the very face of this planet through the people living on it. Ultimately, it's a matter of faith, but belief in the Judeo-Christian god is far from a blind leap! If interested, check out a Lee Strobel book. I read that as a non-believer and found it decent (I didn't like some of his conclusions, but overall he did some decent work).

4a. Belief that you are an only child (if you were told you are an only child) doesn't make it a reality. You could have a brother or sister somewhere in the world that your parents are hiding from you. Similarly, belief that God doesn't exist doesn't make God go away. In other words, you don't control reality with your beliefs. Rather, reality sculpts your beliefs. You choose to believe in no-God based on the reality that you've personally seen. Look at the prior bullets and check them out in more detail for yourself. That's how I found God a year ago.

4b. According to the reality of the universe as I've found it to be, a nonbelief in God will condemn you to an eternity of suffering beyond imagining. This isn't something to gamble with. The evidence should be looked at first before making a decision.

4c. An atheist will say that the reality of the universe as they've found it to be is an eternity of black oblivion. Christianity offers an eternity of life and joy. This isn't a crutch or a feel-good philosophy, but just the way the universe is, as the one true God describes it.
 
Upvote 0

Erock83

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2005
1,504
61
42
Phoenix
✟2,062.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
ImmortalTechnique said:
no, because they didn't know about global warming or scientific taxonomy when it was written

Well for the sake of my point and more than likely the OP lets just say that Genesis chapter 1 is an allegory. You tell me that its is not possible for man to understand such concepts when the book was first written long long ago in a galaxy far far away…no wait just long ago. That being said then why is the bible riddled with scientific reference of which people of that time frame had no business making? *ponders* One possible explanation is oh yeah the existence of God, another one would be people of ancient times had a scientific that was as vast as today and we are just repeating what was common knowledge 4000 years ago. Which explanation is more plausible? *shrugs*

One Love.
 
Upvote 0

JRNetwork

Active Member
Jan 1, 2006
239
8
34
Kansas, USA
Visit site
✟455.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Democrat
Its true, there are many things in the bible which were not known until much later, such as the number of stars:

Jeremiah 33:22
“As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.”

Considering that only about 3,000 can be seen with the naked eye, and that you can easily count that many in a couple handfulls of sand, I'd say thats something.

Here's another star thing:

1 Corinthians 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

Hmm.. Now how can something so far away be seen to have differences so great that they are unlike each other....

Oh and one more (this is the last one, I promise)

Job 28:25
To establish a weight for the wind,
And apportion the waters by measure.

I dont think it has been very long since it has been discovered that air actually has weight.
 
Upvote 0

Erock83

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2005
1,504
61
42
Phoenix
✟2,062.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
JRNetwork said:
Job 28:25
To establish a weight for the wind,
And apportion the waters by measure.

I dont think it has been very long since it has been discovered that air actually has weight.

Apparently you are not from tornado ally
One Love
 
Upvote 0