Allah same as our God?

Rebirth In Flames · May 26, 2005

We fool ourselves when we try and rationalize what we think Gods motives, reasoning, and laws outside of the Scriptures are. A fool is a finite mind claiming to grasp the infinite God. To claim absolutes outside of Scripture is to say in reality that you are full of yourself and extremely ignorant. Truth is found in Scripture only, and Scripture says that Jesus is the only way to the Father... theres no, but... or except... ... its absolute. If you believe in something that is against Scripture, you are by no definition a true Christian.

Annabel Lee · May 26, 2005

Rebirth In Flames said:
And some people worship Satan. But the Truth is that Jews and Muslims go to hell. If it were the same God, why can't they go to heaven? Because they don't know the true God, because they don't have Jesus Christ.

I don't mean to sound harsh... but this is a topic that needs to be represented bluntly.. especially on Christian forums.

You presume to know the eternal destiny of another human being?

You do not know the mind of God.

Blackhawk · May 26, 2005

ps139 said:
You are putting words into my mouth. I'm nowhere near a universalist. And I think that when people worship a false god, they are either worshipping nothing, or the devil. (or themselves). But I am reluctant to say that a little Muslim girl who never gets let out of the house, who has been virtually brainwashed to think that Christians are evil, and who sincerely seeks to know God - I don't believe she is damned to hell because of where she was born. I believe God gives everyone an equal chance at salvation and that it does not depend on the time or place where you were born. And when she dies and is judged, she just may see in Jesus the Person who she has been longing for her whole life but was never able to really learn about. And then she will run to Him like the prodigal son when he returns home.

Okay that is why I said that I might be putting words into your mouth. But how does what you said here state that the Muslim or the Jewish god could be the same as the one and only God? It really says the opposite.

Rebirth In Flames · May 26, 2005

You do not know the mind of God.

I only know with the Bible tells me is true, you're right.

ps139 · May 26, 2005

Okay that is why I said that I might be putting words into your mouth. But how does what you said here state that the Muslim or the Jewish god could be the same as the one and only God? It really says the opposite.

Well I think there is a problem with the question. As someone said before, there is no such thing, in reality, as "the Jewish God," or the "Muslim God," there is only God. And the way I am answering it, is that I believe whoever sincerely wants to know, to love, and to serve God - their place and time of birth will not stop them from doing so. And maybe they will not find out the revealed truth until they die. I hope that explains my views, I know it sounds confusing.

ps139 · May 26, 2005

In other words, I do not think all Muslims worship the same deity. Maybe that makes it simpler, as an example.

Rebirth In Flames · May 26, 2005

You presume to know the eternal destiny of another human being?

Yes.

John 14:6 Everyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ, goes to hell.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Find me a verse that says otherwise, and you win the argument.

Cecilia · May 26, 2005

The Koran itself preaches the killing of those who do not accept the Muslim faith. While it is their choice to believe it, I do not think our God of Love could be the same God that supposively inspired that book.

Blackhawk · May 26, 2005

ps139 said:
Well I think there is a problem with the question. As someone said before, there is no such thing, in reality, as "the Jewish God," or the "Muslim God," there is only God. And the way I am answering it, is that I believe whoever sincerely wants to know, to love, and to serve God - their place and time of birth will not stop them from doing so. And maybe they will not find out the revealed truth until they die. I hope that explains my views, I know it sounds confusing.

Okay. I think I understand your point. And I really empathize with it. Much of me hopes that the Muslim girl who has never heard of Jesus Christ or the gospel will be judged differently than the girl who was brought to chruch every sunday but still rejects God. However I find nothing in scripture to support this view and some parts go against it. (that is the view that ones can go to heven withotu accepting Christ) But this is far from universalism or anything like that.

ps139 · May 26, 2005

Okay. I think I understand your point. And I really empathize with it. Much of me hopes that the Muslim girl who has never heard of Jesus Christ or the gospel will be judged differently than the girl who was brought to chruch every sunday but still rejects God. However I find nothing in scripture to support this view and some parts go against it. But this is far from universalism or anything like that.

I believe my view is entirely in accord with John 14:6. People may do a double take when reading it, but Christ is the WAY, TRUTH, LIFE. When we die, and are judged - we see the Lord. Some people have accepted or rejected Christ in this life. Others don't even know who He is~!! I'm not saying that all of them go to Heaven, but I am not saying they all go to hell. Why?

Because God:
1. Created us to love Him. (So don't you think he would give us a chance to love Him?)
2. Became Man and died on the Cross for the sins of the world. That is LOVE. (John 3:16)
3. Desires all men to be saved - so this is why I think He gives each person an equal chance, regardless of who they are. (1 Tim. 2:3-4)

And when one dies and is judged - they are either turned away or allowed into Heaven - through Christ, and Christ alone.

I cannot imagine God sending someone to hell who never heard the name Jesus. Just like I cannot imagine God sending babies or retarted people to hell.

Rebirth In Flames · May 26, 2005

John 1:12-13

John speaking of Jesus Christ: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Therefore a man that is not born of God, (through Christs blood: whom believes in Jesus), then he goes to hell. There is no relativism or exceptions to this statement. I love how it says, nor of the will of man, meaning that there is no human begging, rationalizations, or wills that count except that of Gods who is absolute and perfect through His Son Jesus Christ.

Annabel Lee · May 26, 2005

Rebirth In Flames said:
Yes.

John 14:6 Everyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ, goes to hell.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Find me a verse that says otherwise, and you win the argument.

I'm not trying to argue with you, you can believe what you please.

I do want to point out the dangers of putting God in a Bible box for your convenience. God goes far beyond the bible and any beliefs we might hold dear.

It comes down to this, you do not have the authority to decide or condemn someone to Hell.
It strikes me as very arrogant and unchristian.

NaivetyLost · May 26, 2005

To me it doens't make sense to put any of these labels on God. He can't be put into a box and labeled, we'll never comprehend Him fully. And no matter what the doctrines of Baptists, or Catholics, or Jews, or whoever say about Him, to me it comes down to one fact. God wrote the Bible to personally tell me (and each of you too) what He wants to mean in my life. For example, I read and God tells me that I'm to take care of my family, and be honorable, and respect my son and my wife. So what does that tell me about what God is? That He is honourable, and He takes care of His family (us), and He respects us (why else give us free will to choose to accept Him and His son?). So long as you know that the Bible is His infallible guide to you about Him, and His son, and everything, that's how you'll know who God is. Did I make sense?

Rebirth In Flames · May 26, 2005

It strikes me as very arrogant and unchristian.

And it strikes me as unChristian of you to manipulate the blunt truth and facts of Scripture text to fit your view of how God SHOULD be.

Rebirth In Flames · May 26, 2005

John 14:6 says is bluntly... how can people manipulate this and justify their rationalizations for their own personal changes to Christ's words?!

Sephania · May 26, 2005

IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
The God of Ishmael is the same as the God of Jacob, which is the God of Abraham.

No, it is not.

In 1993 I asked the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to reveal to me whether the Bible was indeed corrupted as I was taught or if it were the truth and the Koran was the false document, Shoebat said. Through parallel study of the Bible and the Koran he soon came to a logical crossroads: Either the Jews had indeed changed the scripture because how could God be on the side of evil people, or the Koran was false, and I was the evil one, Shoebat recalled. I then decided to examine the history from both sides to weigh each sides. It was then that I began to see the spiritual link between the Jewish people and their land.

Slowly a change overcame the veteran Jihadist. After reading the Hebrew Bible, about all of the righteous wars of Israel from biblical times until the present it dawned on me, said Shoebat. How could it be that Allah is the true God if the Six-Day-War in 1967 resulted the greatest victory for the Jews since Joshuas encirclement of Jericho. Whats more is that Israels victory unlike Muslim conquests full of rape, pillaging and massacre brought freedom for all peoples and religions. Everyone [his fellow Arabs living in Jericho at the time ed.] saw and everyone remembers this but unfortunately people today deny the truth of what they.

http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=56867

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Shamoun/god.htm

FunkyBrother · May 26, 2005

Mohammeds tribe worshiped the moon. They called the moon god the god, translated Allah.

Mohammed obviously at some point heard teachings from Scripture. And tried to marry the moon god up with the God of creation to widen his followers, but he obviously couldnt get his head around the concept of the Trinity.

Beware of false religions brought revealed by angels.

Rebirth In Flames · May 26, 2005

Likewise, beware of wolves in sheeps clothing. Not all who are in the church, (who say Lord, Lord), will be saved either. A good way to weed out the wolves, is to test them and see if they believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father as Scripture says.

Simonline · May 26, 2005

Zenaide said:
Ok. Prolly got your attention here. Ok. Trace back when it was the jews around. I dont know the details, but this is biblical. Somewhere along the line the jews get split up and the arabs came to be. So the arabs would keep the same jaweh. So... they develope their own lil life style... So since the Jewish's God is our God, would that make the Allah the same?

You really should try actually reading the Bible you know. The Israelites are the physical descendents of the man Israel (formerly known as Jacob). Israel was the son of Isaac who was the son of Abraham. Isaac was the younger half brother to Ishmael the son of Abraham and Hagar (the maidservant of Abraham's wife Sarah). It was through Ishmael that the Arab nations came into being but through Isaac and Israel that the Israelites came into being. Therefore, the 'Jews' didn't get 'split up' so that the Arabs could come into being since the Arabs are the descendents of Ishmael and not Isaac or Jacob (Israel).

Allah is the God of Islam. Islam and the Arab peoples are not synonymous since although most Arabs are muslims not all muslims are Arabs. Nations such as Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, all of the former southern Soviet Union republics, many of the Indonesian countries...none of these are Arab nations yet they are all muslim nations.

Contrary to popular opinion, the God of the Bible (YHWH) and the god of the Qur'an (Allah) are not one and the same. There are many differences in both Nature, Character, and their respective means of salvation for their followers.

For further study click on the following links:

http://answering-islam.org/index.html

http://www.opendoors.org.au/pgs/rsrc/ism01.htm

http://cbw.strang.com/authors.pl?auth=148&display=1

http://www.kitab.org.uk/

Simonline.

Simonline · May 26, 2005

Blackhawk said:
Neither the Jewish god nor the god of Islam is the same as the Christian God. What might be surprising is that the god that the jews worship is not hte god of Abraham. If it were so then they would of accepted Jesus.

But even if we did not hve Jesus' words to back up the statement that Christians, Jews, and Muslims do not worship the same God it is still obvious that they are not. The God of the Bible, the god of the jews, and the god of the Muslims can't be the same God because the views about htem contradict each other.

[Sentence deleted at the behest of the moderators.]

The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is the same God whom the Christians profess to worship. Were it not for the Israelites there would be no 'Christianity' (Rom.9-11). As a gentile Christian myself I am ashamed to say that the more Christianity goes on the further away from the Truth she moves and the more heretical she becomes. Only when the Messiah finally does return will the heretical Christian Church realize just how heretical she has actually become.

It is time for us Gentiles to repent of our centuries of latent anti-semitism which is probably the single greatest reason for members of the Jewish community to continue in their rejection of their Messiah whom we have 'hijacked' and re-caste in our own 'Gentile' image (in far more ways than one).

(See: Father Forgive Us - A Christian Response To The Church's Heritage Of Jewish Persecution by Fred Wright [ISBN 1-85424-605-4] and Words From The Scroll Of Fire also by Fred Wright [ISBN 9-65222-579-7] available online from Christian Friends of Israel http://www.cfijerusalem.org/contactus.asp?id=1&cat=1 ).

Simonline.

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