Allah (or rather a transcendent god) makes more sense...? Thoughts?

[juvenissun]

Makes one wonder if there's a sister reality to this one where Adam and Eve didn't eat of the Tree of Knowledge. If we assume Genesis is accurate just for the idea of a multiverse, as well as the idea of a God for all 'verses.

They either ate, or not ate the forbidden fruit.
If they did not, then they still live happily in the Garden. That is fine.
They did, then we know the rest of the story.

In terms of Adam and Eve, there is no multiple choice but only two versions. So, to Adam and Eve, it does not really matter if multiverse or not.

To the rest of us, the idea of multiverse need to be described more precisely, so we know what are we talking about.

 

[Moral Orel]

Of course not. Silly question.
But God does tell us that human lives on the EARTH. And He uses the Christian theology to imply that human lives ONLY on the earth.

Where is the implication?
And are you saying "human" to mean that you believe he might have a whole other planet somewhere else with intelligent beings that he calls something other than "human"? Or is there some other reason you say "human" instead of "life"?

 

[juvenissun]

Where is the implication?
And are you saying "human" to mean that you believe he might have a whole other planet somewhere else with intelligent beings that he calls something other than "human"? Or is there some other reason you say "human" instead of "life"?

The "implication" is "implied" by the whole doctrine. Otherwise, it won't be called implication.
According to the doctrine, human is made of body, soul and spirit. Intelligence is not a required item.

 

[Holoman]

There IS a way: Christianity says that.

Does it? Do you have a scriptural reference?

I don't think you can imply it simply from Jesus coming to Earth as a human.

 

[Moral Orel]

The "implication" is "implied" by the whole doctrine. Otherwise, it won't be called implication.

Sorry, that just sounds like you're reading into it what you want to read into it. You have to be more specific to make a claim than "the whole doctrine".

 

[juvenissun]

Does it? Do you have a scriptural reference?

I don't think you can imply it simply from Jesus coming to Earth as a human.

Of course it is more than that. It would include the history (prophecy), the birth, the growth, the ministry, and the crucifixion. You have to count the whole thing as a single plan.

 

[juvenissun]

Sorry, that just sounds like you're reading into it what you want to read into it. You have to be more specific to make a claim than "the whole doctrine".

Well, if you don't get it, too bad.
I don't have time to satisfy your request.

 

[Moral Orel]

Of course it is more than that. It would include the history (prophecy), the birth, the growth, the ministry, and the crucifixion. You have to count the whole thing as a single plan.

But what implies that there isn't another plan for another place for another people? If you want to post an opinion on a forum, you should be able to back that up with something. That's the whole point in a discussion thread. Why post your opinion at all if it just seems unfounded and you won't make it founded?

 

[juvenissun]

But what implies that there isn't another plan for another place for another people? If you want to post an opinion on a forum, you should be able to back that up with something. That's the whole point in a discussion thread. Why post your opinion at all if it just seems unfounded and you won't make it founded?

I do not need to back up anything I said here. If it is convenient, I might do that. Otherwise, take it or leave it.

It is not likely to be the case. This flood gate can not be open, not even the second time. Otherwise, the plan of salvation will not only be impractical, but is ugly and stupid. The Lord Jesus is NOT going to die many many times at different places and time. It is simple ridiculous.

 

[Moral Orel]

The Lord Jesus is NOT going to die many many times at different places and time.

Whoever said Jesus had to die again? Different plans for different folks.

But what if he did do that? Who are you to say what God and Jesus want to do?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Dug up these quotes from here...

"Perhaps you think God has not created a humanity other than you. No! I swear to God that He has created thousands upon thousands of mankinds and you are the last among them."
"Like this world there are 70,000 other planets with each of their peoples believing they are alone in the universe."
"I cannot say that there are human beings in other worlds, but I can say that there are living beings, whom we cannot see because of the great distance between us."
-Bihar al Anwar, vol 14, p 79

Bihār al-Anwār (Arabic: بحار الأنوار‎, meaning "Seas of Lights") is a comprehensive collection of traditions (ahadith) compiled by the Shi'i scholar Mulla Muhammad Baqir, known as 'Allama Majlisi (d. 1110/1698). It is a hadith collection, the second source of inspiration in Shia Islam.
Probably completed between 1106 AH (1694 AD) and 1110 AH (1698 AD), it is a compendium of ahadith (Hadith), historical subjects and commentaries on many Qur'anic verses.

 

[juvenissun]

Whoever said Jesus had to die again? Different plans for different folks.

But what if he did do that? Who are you to say what God and Jesus want to do?

Here is the key: There is NO other way to solve the problem of sin. We see this clearly from other religions of the world.

God gives us quite a few guidelines so we can sense what He will or will not do. To name one of them for this issue: In Genesis 1, God always says "it is GOOD" after completing each event of creation. And by the function of the forbidden fruit, we do CAN tell good from evil. Your model is NOT GOOD (in fact, it is pretty bad). So it is not likely the case.

 

[juvenissun]

Dug up these quotes from here...

"Perhaps you think God has not created a humanity other than you. No! I swear to God that He has created thousands upon thousands of mankinds and you are the last among them."
"Like this world there are 70,000 other planets with each of their peoples believing they are alone in the universe."
"I cannot say that there are human beings in other worlds, but I can say that there are living beings, whom we cannot see because of the great distance between us."
-Bihar al Anwar, vol 14, p 79

Islam is, in fact, very bad in creationism in its theology. To quote islamic teaching for argument on issues of creationism is to hit yourself on the foot. No, this Muslim guy has NO POSITION to say that according to Islam.

 

[Moral Orel]

Here is the key: There is NO other way to solve the problem of sin. We see this clearly from other religions of the world.

No, what we see is that other religions can't come up with a solution to the problem of sin. What you are stating is that God is incapable of finding another solution.

Your model is NOT GOOD (in fact, it is pretty bad).

Why is it bad? Just the vague, general model, that there are other worlds, with other intelligent beings, that God came up with plans to deal with. I don't know what God's plans are, I won't try to guess. I will just base it on God's infinite wisdom, which should mean he has infinite good solutions to an infinite number of problems. Only God would be able to do that, not me or you. Are you saying God can't?

 

[DogmaHunter]

If they are not human, then they are just the same as other animals.

So, if a non-human appeared in your living room with a highly advanced teleportation device and tells you "Hi, I am Blurrr from the planet Omicron Persii 8" in english... you would consider the life of this creature to be of the same value as a bird, cockroach or rabbit?

Seriously?

 

[DogmaHunter]

You still mean human. There is not likely such kind life in the multiverse. Human is "the best" one can ever find.

One can ever find?

How and when did you explore the entire universe and the trillions upon trillions of planets?

You didn't? Then on what basis do you make this claim to knowledge?

Human is God's best creation. It does not mean the biology and the intelligence. There are many many very intelligent atheists. They are ultimately useless and meaningless.

I feel like I should report this post because of that last part.

I wonder what would happen if I would bluntly state here that theists are useless and meaningless.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Certainly NOT.

You can keep on denying it, but we most certainly are animals.

And tetrapods. And mammals. And primates. And humans.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I do not need to back up anything I said here. If it is convenient, I might do that. Otherwise, take it or leave it.

It is not likely to be the case. This flood gate can not be open, not even the second time. Otherwise, the plan of salvation will not only be impractical, but is ugly and stupid. The Lord Jesus is NOT going to die many many times at different places and time. It is simple ridiculous.

Why is that simply ridiculous?
Couldn't your god make a gazillion more jesus bodies and repeat it till infinity?
I mean, he is all powerfull, right?

 

[juvenissun]

No, what we see is that other religions can't come up with a solution to the problem of sin. What you are stating is that God is incapable of finding another solution.

That is a very true statement. This is, in fact, the essence of Christianity.

 

[juvenissun]

Why is it bad? Just the vague, general model, that there are other worlds, with other intelligent beings, that God came up with plans to deal with. I don't know what God's plans are, I won't try to guess. I will just base it on God's infinite wisdom, which should mean he has infinite good solutions to an infinite number of problems. Only God would be able to do that, not me or you. Are you saying God can't?

One problem, one simple solution. That is good and beautiful.
We focus on ONE problem only (the sin). A solution with unnecessary complication, repetitions and redundancy is NOT good. Your vision on this problem is infinitely complicated. NOT GOOD.

No. God can not do many things. He told us so. Logically, it is quite easy to understand. If God says He is happiness, then He can NOT be unhappy.