All sins are equal?

[Umaro]

I've heard it mentioned a few times on this board, and I have no idea where the bible stands on it, but I've gotten the impression that all sins are equal in the eyes of God.
Lets assume that there are two twin 15 year old brothers who have lived a very upstanding and good Christian lifestyle, models of society so to speak. They are identical in every way. One day one goes into a convenience store and steals a pack of gum, giving into temptation. The other brother goes into the store across the street, snaps, and kills 6 people with a hatchet. Both run outside and are struck by the same truck, no time to repent or confess. Would both of these brothers be given the same judgment?

 

[MikeMcK]

I've heard it mentioned a few times on this board, and I have no idea where the bible stands on it, but I've gotten the impression that all sins are equal in the eyes of God.
Lets assume that there are two twin 15 year old brothers who have lived a very upstanding and good Christian lifestyle, models of society so to speak. They are identical in every way. One day one goes into a convenience store and steals a pack of gum, giving into temptation. The other brother goes into the store across the street, snaps, and kills 6 people with a hatchet. Both run outside and are struck by the same truck, no time to repent or confess. Would both of these brothers be given the same judgment?

They would be judged by the same standard, which is in light of God's perfection.

Both have rebelled against God's law, one by stealing, one by murdering, and both have made themselves enemies of God.

I'm curious, how many of these threads do you plan to start?

 

[FallingWaters]

I've heard it mentioned a few times on this board, and I have no idea where the bible stands on it, but I've gotten the impression that all sins are equal in the eyes of God.
Lets assume that there are two twin 15 year old brothers who have lived a very upstanding and good Christian lifestyle, models of society so to speak. They are identical in every way. One day one goes into a convenience store and steals a pack of gum, giving into temptation. The other brother goes into the store across the street, snaps, and kills 6 people with a hatchet. Both run outside and are struck by the same truck, no time to repent or confess. Would both of these brothers be given the same judgment?

Mat 11:24
"But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you."

It is believed that there are various degrees of punishment in hell.
I don't know if there are varying degrees of sin.
But I would think the punishment is the main concern anyway.

 

[FallingWaters]

No, I was referring to Matthew 11:24.

 

[Confess]

Our very existence is one where we are separated from God and unable to go to going to heaven. So we are all equal there.

That is called the doctrine of original sin.

What you are asking about is our "actual sin". The sins where we consciencely do on a day to day basis.

People who believe that Jesus died for their sin die everyday without having the opportunity to repent of their most recent sin. I would venture to say that most people die that way.

Repentance of a specific sin is not what joins us to God. Faith does. So even if you died committing a crime, if you believed that Christ died for you, then you will be saved.

NOW, with that said. I would have serious questions and possible doubts about that person's faith if they were willing to kill someone and yet confessed Christ.

But that is not for me, but for God to judge.

 

[Key]

I've heard it mentioned a few times on this board, and I have no idea where the bible stands on it, but I've gotten the impression that all sins are equal in the eyes of God.

The idea is, not that all sins are equal, but that Sin is breaking Gods law.

Let me give you an example: If you are driving down the road, doing 85 MPH, and the speed limit is 45, you are a law breaker. I you went 46, or 200, you are still.. a Law Breaker.

The law says that Murder is illegal, as such, if you shoot people in the street, you are a law breaker. If you shoot 1 or 200 people, you are still a Law Breaker.

In the sense that both of them are "Law Breakers" is how all Sins are equal in the eyes of God. Both of the "Brothers" are sinners, both are "Law Breakers" to God.

Not to say that all sins are equal to God, but that in premise, any sin, is breaking Gods Law, so all sinners are equal in the fact that they are "Law Breakers" to God.

Hope I explained that well.

God Bless

Key

 

[Merlin]

I've heard it mentioned a few times on this board, and I have no idea where the bible stands on it, but I've gotten the impression that all sins are equal in the eyes of God.
Lets assume that there are two twin 15 year old brothers who have lived a very upstanding and good Christian lifestyle, models of society so to speak. They are identical in every way. One day one goes into a convenience store and steals a pack of gum, giving into temptation. The other brother goes into the store across the street, snaps, and kills 6 people with a hatchet. Both run outside and are struck by the same truck, no time to repent or confess. Would both of these brothers be given the same judgment?

Hello,

The wages of sin is death.
Spiritual death or separation from God.
In that regard, the sins are equal,
both would be separated from God.
Just as stepping in front of a truck resulted in equal death for both, level of sin made no difference on how dead they were.

Sin, or repentance of/from that sin is not the real issue though.

The issue is that all of us at one time or another have sinned.
God wants obedience.
He set a path for us, His Son.
The law (Sin) only points out our shortcomings and the need for Him to rescue us.

 

[jjoel]

James 2:10-11
10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Seems like if commit one sin, it's like we've committed all sins! Sorry guys a fib is just as horrible as murder. On earth their are different consequences for it though.

 

[BelindaP]

My answer is yes...and no.

Before God all sins are the same. If we fail at perfection, then we are doomed under the law. That is why we need God's grace. If, as you state in your example, both brothers were saved by God's grace, then they would both go to heaven, as Jesus' blood covers all sins. If they were not saved by God's grace, then they would both go to hell when they died. [A note of caution: Just because one lives the Christian lifestyle does not mean one is saved. One must accept Jesus' sacrifice to be saved.]

However, sins are different on this sphere, because of the people they harm. Thus, stealing a pack of gum is not as bad a sin as shooting up a store, because few people get hurt. The consequences on this earth then are different for different sins.

 

[heron]

God sees the impact of both these actions as destructive. The store owner who finds his inventory slipping away gradually suffers losses, and builds fears, and loses relationship with his customers.

If we're only caring about heaven and hell, we've missed the point.

 

[Rafael]

I think that all sin is equal in one regard; If it is not dealt with by the blood of Jesus and wiped away, a person cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. As far as judgment goes, why would the books be brought out on record if only one sin was needed to be found?
The verse given about the "greater condemnation" significantly implies that some will suffer differently than others, but to what degree I do not know. There are other verses, too, speaking of greater, weightier, and least in regards to judgment and sin.
Whether or not there is any punishment other than being denied eternal life, I'm not even sure because of recent study, but I am sure that God is perfect in justice as Judge over Creation. He bids mankind to live and has set it up, made provision, so that man can overcome death by his blood of His own suffering and payment in death for those sins - all of them.

Mat 23:14 [["Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.]]

John 19:10 So Pilate *said to Him, "You do not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?"
11 Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

Mat 5:19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

 

[BigNorsk]

As far as the fate of the two, we don't know. There is not enough info given.

We don't know from their outward behavior that either had ever really come to faith in Jesus. People can be outwardly very nice people, but without faith, they are dead. If neither had ever come to saving faith, then both are doomed, indeed both were doomed from before either of their last sins.

Now if, on the other hand, they had saving faith, then the commission of a sin does not in itself cause one to loose one's salvation. Now it is difficult to see where someone filled with the love of God could take and chop a bunch of people up with a hatchet. Maybe the person was mentally ill and so mistook them for some horrible space creature. I do not know.

The person who stole the gum. Well the harm to the owner of the store is not as great, possibly the person was a Christian who gave into temptation and sinned. If that is the case the person would still be saved. But maybe the person was simply trying on his own to be a moral person, if that is the case, then he was already dead when he stole the gum.

Sin produces death, and must be paid for with blood. But that is why Jesus died for you, so that his blood and not yours may atone for your many sins. Christianity fundamentally does not teach salvation by you being sin free or perfect, it teaches salvation by faith in the One who is perfect-Jesus. As long as you attempt to understand Christianity as an application of Law, such as your example presented, you never will understand the good news, that Jesus died for you and if you believe you will be saved.

Hope that helps.
Marv

 

[winsome]

I've heard it mentioned a few times on this board, and I have no idea where the bible stands on it, but I've gotten the impression that all sins are equal in the eyes of God.
Lets assume that there are two twin 15 year old brothers who have lived a very upstanding and good Christian lifestyle, models of society so to speak. They are identical in every way. One day one goes into a convenience store and steals a pack of gum, giving into temptation. The other brother goes into the store across the street, snaps, and kills 6 people with a hatchet. Both run outside and are struck by the same truck, no time to repent or confess. Would both of these brothers be given the same judgment?

Catholics divide sins into two categories - mortal and venial.

A mortal sin is one that destroys the relationship between the person and God.
A venial sin damages that relationship but does not destroy it.
A person who dies in mortal sin condemns themselves to hell.

A mortal sin requires three things:
1. Grave matter - i.e. it is very serious (likie killing people)
2. Free consent (so a young girl who has an abortion under presuure from her parents may not be freely consenting).
3. Full knowledge of the seriousness of the sin.

In your example above you might think that the person who kills six people with a hatchet will go to hell. But we can't make a judgement. We don't know the state of his mind when he did this. If he has lived a very upstanding and good Christian lifestyle why would one suddenly go and kill six people?

It is true that in one sense a sin is a sin, but the effects of a particular sin on the person who commits the sins may not be the same.

 

[jrmronald]

Yes there are sins that are worse than others
1 venial sins are sins waved by God
2 mortal sins which puts people in hell
3 sins that cry to heaven for vengence, these will put someone
deep in hell
jrm

 

[Seekermeister]

I believe that even a nonChristian should be able to understand that all people have a huge variety of evil thoughts, and though they might not carry all of them out to action, they remain all the same. A person sins in their mind, before they break any law. There is only one unforgivable sin, but I shall not list it, because I do not want to provoke anyone to commit it.

Even a Christian may not escape the consequences of their sins, despite the fact that they are forgiven. Jesus gave us a way to find pardon, but this deals with our salvation, and is not a free pass.

Christians will receive rewards in Heaven, based on their observance of the Law. But, all of the laws of the Bible are contained within the Golden Rule. The primary element of which, that we think and act with love.

 

[Umaro]

I believe that even a nonChristian should be able to understand that all people have a huge variety of evil thoughts, and though they might not carry all of them out to action, they remain all the same. A person sins in their mind, before they break any law. There is only one unforgivable sin, but I shall not list it, because I do not want to provoke anyone to commit it.

Even a Christian may not escape the consequences of their sins, despite the fact that they are forgiven. Jesus gave us a way to find pardon, but this deals with our salvation, and is not a free pass.

Christians will receive rewards in Heaven, based on their observance of the Law. But, all of the laws of the Bible are contained within the Golden Rule. The primary element of which, that we think and act with love.

You should never withhold knowledge from anyone. The unforgivable sin is denying the holy spirit.

Also, I have a further question on this. If you recognized that the Golden Rule can pretty much be the primary starting point for all morality, why do people keep telling me Atheists have no moral grounding point?

 

[Key]

You should never withhold knowledge from anyone. The unforgivable sin is denying the holy spirit.

Also, I have a further question on this. If you recognized that the Golden Rule can pretty much be the primary starting point for all morality, why do people keep telling me Atheists have no moral grounding point?

It has to do with the fact that Atheist moral structure is influenced by culture, and personal stand.

IE: An atheist might not see the problem with Abortion, because they do not (or refuse to) recognize that the fetus is a "person" as such, the Golden Rule would not apply.

Also, the Idea of the Golden Rule, is "Do onto others as you would have do onto you" however, as simple as this sounds, it is a very difficult thing to follow, because, many times, we do not realize what we "Do onto Others" mainly. Either by Ego, or Pride, many times Atheist (Because they have not been Humbled by the Lord), do not realize how they appear or how they treat other people.

Also, to some, they do not view people properly, IE: They view Christians as "Things to Argue against and Beat down at all costs" they do not reconize, or even grasp in their own mind that they are "People' because we may not be "Like them", this is a type of "Us/Them" mentality, that has generated the land barriers that make up countries, stats, cities, ethnic cultures, etc. Where the idea is "Outsiders" are just that, "Outside" they are not the "same People" as "Us" So in that case, once again.. the Golden Rule breaks down.

Just to explain some of the problems.

God Bless

Key

 

[Seekermeister]

You should never withhold knowledge from anyone. The unforgivable sin is denying the holy spirit.

Also, I have a further question on this. If you recognized that the Golden Rule can pretty much be the primary starting point for all morality, why do people keep telling me Atheists have no moral grounding point?

I will make no personal judgement of yourself, but do you really believe that atheists live in accordance with the Golden Rule? First, it requires that you love God, with all of your heart, mind and soul. That is diametrically opposed to any atheistic view that I'm familiar with.

Secondly, although I'm certain that there are some atheists that are very good people, but I have met none that loves all mankind as much as they do themselves.

I do believe that some atheists have their own set of morals, but they are far from those that God set out for us.

 

[Umaro]

I will make no personal judgement of yourself, but do you really believe that atheists live in accordance with the Golden Rule? First, it requires that you love God, with all of your heart, mind and soul. That is diametrically opposed to any atheistic view that I'm familiar with.

Secondly, although I'm certain that there are some atheists that are very good people, but I have met none that loves all mankind as much as they do themselves.

I do believe that some atheists have their own set of morals, but they are far from those that God set out for us.

How does the Golden Rule require one to love God? "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" has nothing to do with God.

Secondly, you've probably just been meeting the wrong people. There are arrogant jerks in every walk of life. That would be like me saying all Christians are jerks based on the fundamentalists who keep telling me how much better they are because they accept God.

 

[Key]

you've probably just been meeting the wrong people. There are arrogant jerks in every walk of life. That would be like me saying all Christians are jerks based on the fundamentalists who keep telling me how much better they are because they accept God.

You do have a very valid point here.

But the Golden Rule, still is limited by one's perception of the situation. Like those Fundamentalist, they do not realize how they appear to you, so even if they did apply the Golden Rule, they would not realize of even grasp why they receive the reactions they do.

The same Holds true for Atheist, however, they then have no other rules or guidelines to fall back on, if it all built off the "Golden Rule".

God Bless

Key