All-Knowing?

[|Paradox|]

Hey there,

I wonder if yuu can help. I am a new Christian but have doubts.... and I'm trying to overcome them. One question I have on my mind is:

If God is all-powerful and all-knowing then when He made us He knew if we were going to believe in Him and His son and He knew the decision He was going to make when deciding if we were going to Heaven or Hell. So what is the Day of Judgement for, as He all-ready knew what the decision He was going to make was, from the beginning.

That probably sounds a bit weird... but what I mean is that, as He is all-powerful, surely he knew exactly what was going to happen anyway. So why make someone, who He knew wouldn't believe in Him inthe end, and then make them suffer in Hell.

Not meaning this in a bad way, but want other people's views on this.

Take care and God bless,
Paradox

 

[hsilgne]

Hi there,

I am a fairly new Christian as well. That's a good question. The way I look at it is God gives us free will. At any moment we have multiple choices we can make. Every choice we make has consequences, either good or bad. No matter which choice we make, God already knows the outcome of that choice. So, while some people make or made the wrong choice(s) and turned from God, they did have the opportunity to make the right choice and turn to God. So when you say that God already knows the desitiny of that person that ends up in hell at the time He created that person, He also knew of the potential that person had to come to Him if that person had made a different choice. Either way, God would have known the outcome.

That's my view, but I'm interested what others have to say on this topic as well.

Peace in Christ.

 

[DawnTillery]

We all have free will to decide to live for God or for satan. God wants everyone to be saved and live with Him for all eternity.
I believe that all people will be judged.

 

[holyrokker]

One thing to consider is what it means to be "all-knowing" and "all-powerful"

Can God REALLY do anything? I mean - can He do something that isn't real?

We know that God can't lie, God can't be unfaithful to Himself or His creation, etc.
(See Hebrews 6:18, 2 Timothy 2:13, James 1:13)

God limits Himself to what is right and holy, just, etc.

God can't do something and is intrinsically impossible. Someone once asked "Can God make a rock that is so big that He can't lift it?" This is an example if an intrinsic impossiblility.

The same can be said about "all-knowing"

God can't know something that isn't knowable. God can't know soemthing that isn't true. God can't know that the sky is purple, for example, or that 2+2=5.
He can't know something that doesn't exist.

In this sense, I believe, God can't know an event or action that has not yet happened.

Here's a very good study of the topic:
http://www.biblical-theology.com/omniscience/forknowl.htm

 

[|Paradox|]

Hey there,

Thanks DawnTillery and holyrokker. I always liked that questions 'Can God make an object he couldn't lift?' I wished I asked that in my Religious Education classes as the teachers would have exploded.

But thats a really good post and has opened my mind a lot. Thanks for that link and it demonstrates to me exactly the extent I should be thanking God for giving me free-will. However, I do have one further question though. In the Bible are there prophecies? I remember talking to one Jehovah's witness and he said about... the foretelling of a country of power and named someone who we be king? (I can't remember exactly what I'm saying but the point is mainly to do with the prophecies).

The reason this links together is that I have trouble with God not be able to predict what we are going to do, due to free-will, but being able to predict whats going to happen hundreds of years in the future, which depend on that same free-will.

Really not meaning to be doubting all the time but this seems the right place to ask these questions (and sometimes in real-life I feel attacking when I ask these questions in real conversation.)

Anyway thanks again for your help, take care and God bless,

|Paradox|

EDIT: Just realised that link actually may answer the question but still if someone could tell me their view, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Wakeup2god]

We have to remember that God isn't restrained by time as we are. He is outside of time. Time is His creation. Therefor He could know the end before the begining.

As for the question

"Can God make a rock that is so big that He can't lift it?"

Of course He can. He can make it crumble into the sea as well. Even humans can make objects that they can't lift. What's the big deal there?

We mustn't also forget that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him so if we do make a mistake He has the ability to work it back into His plan.

 

[ZACTAK]

Hey there,

I wonder if yuu can help. I am a new Christian but have doubts.... and I'm trying to overcome them. One question I have on my mind is:

If God is all-powerful and all-knowing then when He made us He knew if we were going to believe in Him and His son and He knew the decision He was going to make when deciding if we were going to Heaven or Hell. So what is the Day of Judgement for, as He all-ready knew what the decision He was going to make was, from the beginning.

That probably sounds a bit weird... but what I mean is that, as He is all-powerful, surely he knew exactly what was going to happen anyway. So why make someone, who He knew wouldn't believe in Him inthe end, and then make them suffer in Hell.

Not meaning this in a bad way, but want other people's views on this.

Take care and God bless,
Paradox

God gives us the free will to do things, and so I do not believe He truly knows what direction we will take until we actually do it. He sways us to make our decisions, but He waits until we have risen to Heaven to make his final judgement on us. I do not believe in predestination, because I think that overrides free will. Although I do believe in the larger picture He does have a plan for us, it is just whether we change those possible plans or if we go along with it and can stay on course.

 

[|Paradox|]

Hey wakeup2god,

Thanks for your post,

As for the question 'Can God make a rock that is so big that He can't lift it?' The point is that He either can't create the rock or if He can, He can't lift it. Either way there is something He can't do so how can He be all-powerful? Thats the point of the question. But its just flawed fundamentally as you can't expect some thing to be able to do both.

The problem if He's not restrained by time, then theres an issue regarding did He know my judgement as soon as he made anyone? And if so why make people who were going to suffer in Hell? If He is restricted by time, then it explains why He changes His mind due to other people's actions as if He wasn't restricted He would have known already.

Take care,
|Paradox|

 

[Rafael]

Hey there,

I wonder if yuu can help. I am a new Christian but have doubts.... and I'm trying to overcome them. One question I have on my mind is:

If God is all-powerful and all-knowing then when He made us He knew if we were going to believe in Him and His son and He knew the decision He was going to make when deciding if we were going to Heaven or Hell. So what is the Day of Judgement for, as He all-ready knew what the decision He was going to make was, from the beginning.

That probably sounds a bit weird... but what I mean is that, as He is all-powerful, surely he knew exactly what was going to happen anyway. So why make someone, who He knew wouldn't believe in Him inthe end, and then make them suffer in Hell.

Not meaning this in a bad way, but want other people's views on this.

Take care and God bless,
Paradox

God stands outside of the dimension of time and see the beginning to the end. This does not mean that He will intervene unless it goes along with this scripture: "All things work together for good; to those that love God and are the called according to His purpose." (Romans 8:28)

Indeed, He has created a choice for us as contrast to His light. Can there be the existence of love without a choice? I think not, and the full love comes by Him allowing not only a choice, but the choice to be absolutely opposite of Himself in the manifestation of evil in the devil. So that answers the "why did God create the devil" or allow Him to go evil. It is like trying to paint a picture or portrait of God with only white. There is no definition without dark colors as a contrast. Black, the absense of light, makes the perfect outline when painting to reveal the face of the subject. God suffers the existence of evil for a while so that the sons of God will walk out of the dark and into the light which is God, thus making a choice to love the light, seeing Him in contrast to the darkness and evil, and being part of His glory that dispels the darkness. We are called to be Sons of God and to fight the good fight of faith against evil.

Ro 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight for what we believe. Hold tightly to the eternal life that God has given you, which you have confessed so well before many witnesses.

 

[vinc]

Although God knows everything. He has given us the free will. He wants us to exercise our free will and of our own free will He wants us to come to Him and live as per His will. He did not make us like robots. There is something called God's perfect will for every human being's life. But whether s(he) would be able to perform 100% successfully by surrendering his wild free will is the greatest challenge.

We must know that as His creation, we are his children and are to grow more and more spiritually like our Heavenly Father as we learn more and more of His nature. He made us in His likeness and image.

God came in the human form as Lord Jesus Christ who showed us, as an example, the way and the life. His main goal was to perform the will of our Heavenly Father and He made his will obedient to Heavenly Father's will during His life on earth. And that is why we read our Heavenly Father say about Lord Jesus Christ that, "This is my beloved Son in whom i am well pleased. Hear ye him.".

So, all human beings are to grow to the fulness of the stature of Lord Jesus Christ who was the perfect man.

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

you're not dead yet, so you should live your life instead of thinking about who goes to hell - because nobody knows. we are christians because we believe in jesus, not because of the schematics of heaven and hell.

 

[snoochface]

To add to what others have said, we do all have free will, and God made us with the intention that we utilize it. He doesn't want anyone to come to him because we are robots who have no other choice but to do so - he wants us to come to him because we have made the decision to do so, from our own free will, and because we love him.

He creates people who may or may not make that choice, and I believe he knows ahead of time what they will do because he is outside of time. He sees me typing this post, and for me I will hit Submit in the future. But God is already in the future so it is in his present that I am currently hitting Submit (that's a weird analogy but I'm trying! ) so he knows that I am going to hit Submit before I actually do so. And I don't think that knowing is the same as pre-destination. He knows if I'm going to do something or not, but he is not making me do it. He is not making that decision for me - I am making the choice - but he knows what my choice will be because, being outside of time, he is already in my future (his present) when I make the choice. I hope I made some sense there, but I'm a little doubtful...

Anyway, also keep in mind that every person has the ability to affect all the other people around them. Someone may never come to God, but their actions may cause someone else to come to God. We all have a purpose and an affect on other people.