ALL habitual sinners are NOT in a saved state

Kenny'sID · Feb 15, 2019

BCsenior said:
Sorry, but that's just not good enough!
You'll have to be more specific.

The hierarchy, as in one Cristian having more power than the other, as you said you do. You can refresh me on those details so I don't have to find our comments on it.

Teaching we don't have the Holy Spirit upon salvation/excepting Christ.

Claims of gifts of the Holy Spirit, when all I have ever seen are the "gifts" that we cannot prove one way or another like tongues, and no one ever seems to have record of the things we can prove like raising the dead/healing and such.

BCsenior · Feb 15, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
Teaching we don't have the Holy Spirit upon salvation/excepting Christ.

You can start by checking out the difference between
experiencing the Holy Spirit coming INSIDE
vs.
experiencing the Holy Spirit coming UPON.

I've done all the work already, now its your turn.

Kenny'sID · Feb 15, 2019

BCsenior said:
You can start by checking out the difference between
experiencing the Holy Spirit coming INSIDE
vs.
experiencing the Holy Spirit coming UPON.

I've done all the work already, now its your turn.

Sorry, if you want to defend it, you'll need to be more specific than that. You claimed it, so you are the one in the know, not me. Besides, I already told you I disagreed. I'll need your reasoning, not someone else's, as well as scripture. If you aren't here to convince me, why did you ask?

Same with the other things I named....there were 3 total so far.

BCsenior · Feb 15, 2019

Kenny, get back to me when you've grasped this, okay?
For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Kenny'sID · Feb 15, 2019

BCsenior said:
Kenny, get back to me when you've grasped this, okay?
For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

It falls apart before it even gets started. the first quote of scripture there was:

BCsenior said:
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body [the church] … and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)

I noticed right off, that isn't even talking about the holy spirit, and I've barely begun to look into it. The first commentary I checked agreed with exactly what I was thinking.

; and as they become one body under Christ, the head, so they are made to drink into one Spirit, or to become of one heart and soul with one another, being knit together in love, the bond of perfectness.

It didn't say the "Holy Spirit" there, and it's very clear it did not mean the Holy Spirit..a huge red flag, and so early on too.

Since as far as I'm concerned it fell apart so quickly, as well as all the other disagreement on that thread, I'd guess we have a long argument ahead of us, so instead of rehashing the same ol' same ol' maybe we can approach this another way.

First question:

What does BCsenior mean? That may or may not be relevant, but I'll know soon enough.

BCsenior · Feb 16, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body [the church] … and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.”
(1 Corinthians 12:13, NKJV)

OK, I checked the Amplified Bible ...
"For by [means of the personal agency of]
one [Holy] Spirit we were all ... baptized ...
into one body, and all made
to drink of one [Holy] Spirit."

You could always consider chucking that
commentary of yours into the dumpster.

British Columbia senior
(not educated in USA)

BCsenior · Feb 16, 2019

Here's a quote from one of our members
taken from a recent thread ...

"Many are going to hell believing the lies of false teachers. If you interpret scripture based on the preconceived belief you can't lose your salvation,
you will twist the word of God until it is unrecognizable that it is even a warning to Christians, but to "some other group" or as in the case of Galatians 5:19-21 you just lose rewards in heaven or here on earth, instead of
what is actually means and that is that they
WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.!"

Kenny'sID · Feb 16, 2019

BCsenior said:
OK, I checked the Amplified Bible ...
"For by [means of the personal agency of]
one [Holy] Spirit we were all ... baptized ...
into one body, and all made
to drink of one [Holy] Spirit."

You could always consider chucking that
commentary of yours into the dumpster.

First, please, will you point me to the online version of that Amplified Bible?

How arrogant is that suggestion, but that is the type thing we get when we assume our power of discernment is superior...and yes, you did that.

So, Oh! you found an amplified bible that adds the term "Holy" to "Spirit" and changes the clear meaning of the scripture to something that agrees with you? Well that changes everything! or not

Does this sound familiar?

you will twist the word of God until it is unrecognizable

You blatantly did just exactly that...what you are warning them here against doing here. That is so you know, if you don't change some things, when you do teach the truth like the basic truth on this thread, how can anyone believe you? That is my main point of all this, to help you, but you will resist, even if I put it right in front of you, just as they do...watch...

I need to just "consider chucking" what I concluded on my own, before I even did the research as well as the research itself that agrees with me? and all because you say I'm wrong? I'd call your very quick, poorly researched decision there reckless at best. Why do you do that? because that's what you choose to believe, and a quick justification, and then put it out of mind is all it takes to make you content you are correct, when you are anything but, and I'll prove it when I'm done here.

How do you think you got to where you are? By listening to twisted Scripture just like that you quoted from your amplified bible, of course. And again, you won't ever see it, because you listened first to what men told you it meant, instead of looking at it for yourself, the very thing you have the audacity to warn others of here. You liked the theology it helped to create because it gives you something you want and it's not likely you will read that any other way now. Blind

Like the actual truth you happen to be teaching on this thread, others don't believe a word of it because they did something very similar when they listened to, and believed twisted scripture taught by men, and never questioned it. You know, scripture taught to them to mean they can do as they like and still make it to heaven. Their reasons for deluding themselves? Because now they can have it both ways by going with what their preacher teaches over God's word. Their way over Gods way, or simply selfishness. They have their reasons for believing what they want, as do you, and selfishness seems to always cover the basic reasons for doing those things.

Also, when they have seen what you yourself do, how can they take you seriously...once again, a main point I'm trying to get across to you. At the very least recognize you don't have the power that you have chosen to believe you do, and know you do the same as others as in not subscribing to the actual word of God your own self, and if you are lucky they might listen to you, but best get out of that mess that helps you put yourself on a pedestal, get humble, and then carry on in the proper "spirit"

Sounds rough? It has too. Next post I'll prove what I say is true, and just the start of how you have deceived yourself into believing something false and on another thread are trying to teach it to others.

Kenny'sID · Feb 16, 2019

The following is the scripture I provided to show the scripture you posted on the opening post on another thread Dec 5, 2018 #1 was changed drastically to meet yours and others in your groups needs. It didn't contain the term "holy" at all as in the thread I linked to just now....

Kenny'sID said:
they are made to drink into one Spirit, or to become of one heart and soul with one another, being knit together in love, the bond of perfectness.

Then you countered with the following verse, that, in your mind, proved it did contain the term Holy (For those reading this , the differences are linked to something that matters a whole lot, so not just a couple of wrong words we are arguing..those differences change everything. )

Anyway, here is where "Holy" is simply added into the bible for no good reason, changing the meaning and making that scripture useful to the Pentecostal movement when it is not.

BCsenior said:
OK, I checked the Amplified Bible ...
"For by [means of the personal agency of]
one [Holy] Spirit we were all ... baptized ...
into one body, and all made
to drink of one [Holy] Spirit."

And because of your one Amplified version you tell me:

BCsenior said:

You could always consider chucking that
commentary of yours into the dumpster.

Click to expand...

That commentary was just one proof, here is the rest, and I challenge you to find the term "Holy" anywhere in the following versions of the bible (all that were listed at 1 Corinthians 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.. I'll need to look into this amplified version you used, but as you can see, that far from makes my findings dumpster worth over yours...again how arrogant.

Oh, and I recommend an open mind if that's possible at this point, so you can see how just the term, "Spirit" defined as the spirit of things in general, has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

New International Version
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

New Living Translation
Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit.

English Standard Version
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Berean Study Bible
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.

Berean Literal Bible
For also in one Spirit we all were baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one Spirit.

New American Standard Bible
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

King James Bible
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Christian Standard Bible
For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and we were all given one Spirit to drink.

Contemporary English Version
Some of us are Jews, and others are Gentiles. Some of us are slaves, and others are free. But God's Spirit baptized each of us and made us part of the body of Christ. Now we each drink from that same Spirit.

Good News Translation
In the same way, all of us, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether slaves or free, have been baptized into the one body by the same Spirit, and we have all been given the one Spirit to drink.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

International Standard Version
For by one Spirit all of us—Jews and Greeks, slaves and free—were baptized into one body and were all privileged to drink from one Spirit.

NET Bible
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether Jews or Greeks or slaves or free, we were all made to drink of the one Spirit.

New Heart English Bible
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink of one Spirit.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For we also are baptized by The One Spirit into one body, whether Jews or Aramaeans or Servants or free men, and we are all made to drink The One Spirit.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether we are Jewish or Greek, slave or free, God gave all of us one Spirit to drink.

New American Standard 1977
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether we are Jews or Greeks, whether we are slaves or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

King James 2000 Bible
For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

American King James Version
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

American Standard Version
For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink.

Darby Bible Translation
For also in [the power of] one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bondmen or free, and have all been given to drink of one Spirit.

English Revised Version
For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Webster's Bible Translation
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Weymouth New Testament
For, in fact, in one Spirit all of us--whether we are Jews or Gentiles, slaves or free men--were baptized to form but one body; and we were all nourished by that one Spirit.

World English Bible
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink into one Spirit.

Young's Literal Translation
for also in one Spirit we all to one body were baptized, whether Jews or Greeks, whether servants or freemen, and all into one Spirit were made to drink,

BCsenior · Feb 19, 2019

The Amplified Bible is a very highly respected version!

"For by [means of the personal agency of]
one [Holy] Spirit we were all ... baptized ...
into one body, and all made
to drink of one [Holy] Spirit."
(1 Corinthians 1:13, The Amplified Bible)

This verse is simply stating that a new believer
is baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body
of believers called The Church.

There is a second Spirit baptism, which is administered
by Jesus to some believers of His choosing.
It is a special anointing for some ministry.
It is called the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Those who are interested can be enlightened here ...
For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

FreeGrace2 · Feb 19, 2019

BCsenior said:
By “habitual sinner” I mean a person who repeatedly
sinswithout repentance. This means everyone
(BACs included) … because everyone can choose to sin.

Not a reason for a born again person to not be saved. And none of the OP verses supports your claim.

Jesus was clear about those He gives eternal life: they shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28 Does anyone need to rephrase this for you?

1 Peter 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

How is it not clear that those who have been born again, cannot perish. Which is what Jesus said in John 3:16 and 10:28.

Repentance means to hate your sin, run from it, and don’t do it anymore.

What motivates you to make up stuff about what Scripture says. What verse tells us that repentance includes hate for anything?

Any lexicon will put that one to bed. Forever.

If one does slip up and sins again, he/she can repent again as in 1 John 1:9. This is repeated until he/she has overcome the sin,
i.e. gained victory over it.

Are you suggesting here that one can achieve sinlessness? Not just periods of no sin, but never to sin again?

What verse teaches this?

All habitual sinners will not inherit
the Kingdom of God
“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves,
nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the Kingdom of God.”
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, NKJV)
Please note: the BAC has become unrighteous,
if he/she chooses to live in a lifestyle of habitual sinning.

The verse doesn't say won't enter the kingdom, but will not inherit the kingdom. One can be IN the kingdom yet have no inheritance (rewards for obedience/faithfulness) IN the kingdom.

All habitual sinners will not inherit
the Kingdom of God
“When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before,
that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21, NLT)
“those who practice such things will not inherit
the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:21, NKJV)

All habitual sinners will not inherit the Kingdom
of Christ but instead they will experience
the anger/wrath of God
“Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes — these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.” (Ephesians 5:3-6, NLT)
“Let no one deceive you with empty words,
for because of these things the wrath of God
comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
(Ephesians 5:6, NKJV)

I'm glad you quoted ALL 3 parallel passages about inheriting the kingdom. Those with spiritual discernment will easily note that 1 Cor 6 and Gal 5 have the words "will not inherit the kingdom" while Eph 5:5 says "have no inheritance IN the kingdom".

I capitalized the word "in" for emphasis. Since all 3 passages are parallel and about the same thing, it is clear that to "not inherit the kingdom" means "have no inheritance IN the kingdom".

iow, unfaithful and disobedient believers will be IN the kingdom, but have no inheritance there.

The Bible is clear about at least 1 example of inheritance; that of sharing in the reign of Christ. That is inheriting the kingdom.

Rom 8:17b - Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;

The red words indicate our inheritance based on performance/behavior/faithfulness/obedience.

The blue words in 2 Tim 2:12 speak of loss of inheritance or reward, also based on performance/behavior/faithlessness/disobedience.

All habitual sinners will experience
the anger/wrath of God
“So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming.” (Colossians 3:5-6, NLT)
“Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience”
(Colossians 3:6, NKJV)

God's wrath is directed at all sin. Believers are not exempt from His wrath. However, God's wrath was experienced by David after his grievous sins of rape and murder, so the word "wrath" doesn't just refer to the lake of fire.

All habitual sinners will go into the lake of fire
“He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. BUT the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8, NKJV)
May I warn you with all sincerity that “the cowardly” includes those BACs in the world (even now) who fall away from the faith during persecution of Christians.

To be clear, the first TWO WORDS in the verse both speak of lack of faith. To be a "coward" means to be fearful, lacking in faith. So this verse is clearly about those who have never believed.

Speaking of which, consider these 2 verses about who will be condemned:

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Therefore, condemnation will be for all who have not believed in Christ.

Therefore, anyone who HAS ever believed in Christ, cannot be condemned. There are no verses that say that they will. In spite of how much you'd wish it were true.

And “the cowardly” will include those BACs who submit to taking the mark of the beast, which is submitting to the ownership of the antichrist, i.e. Satan.

Why drive your theological wishes by assumption?

Is there any verse in Revelation that tells us that any believers will take the mark? No.

Instead, because of the fact that God's wrath (divine discipline) includes physical death, it makes much more sense to understand that disobedient and unfaithful believers will suffer God's wrath during the Trib and be dead physically before the antichrist sets up the mark of the beast.

All habitual sinners will not have the right to the tree of life, and will not be allowed into the city of the New Jerusalem
“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life,
and may enter through the gates into the city.
But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters,
and whoever loves and practices a lie.”
(Revelation 22:14-15, NKJV)

BACs = born-again Christians

It's absolutely clear that the ones "blessed" and "have the right to the tree of life" and "enter the city (New Jerusalem) by the gates" are about eternal rewards for faithfulness and obedience. And v.15 says nothing about the lake of fire, or hell, or anything other than such people will NOT have the right to the tree of life, or enter the city by the gates.

In the ancient world, entering through special gates was an honor. The same will be true on the new earth.

FreeGrace2 · Feb 19, 2019

BCsenior said:
There is a second Spirit baptism, which is administered
by Jesus to some believers of His choosing.
It is a special anointing for some ministry.
It is called the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Actually, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is regeneration at the moment of faith in Christ. We know this from what Luke wrote about Cornelius and his family and friends in Acts 10 when they believed.

Acts 10-
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Then, in ch 11, when Peter explained to the Jews back in Jerusalem as to why he went to Gentiles and entered their home (a forbidden practice among orthodox Jews), he said this:
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?

So Peter equated the indwelling of the Holy Spirit with the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Those who are interested can be enlightened here ...
For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

No thank you. I get my information from Scripture, not other people's commentary.

Kenny'sID · Feb 19, 2019

BCsenior said:
The Amplified Bible is a very highly respected version!

Highly respected by whom? From what
I can gather it is absolutely not respected by many

Here is a comment from gotquestions.org:

Amplified Bible - Pro’s and Con’s
The Amplified Bible can be a valuable study tool, as the different “alternate” renderings can give additional insight into the meaning of a text. The problem is the words the AMP gives alternate renderings for CAN mean those things, but do not mean ALL of those things. The fact that a word can have different meanings does not mean that every possible meaning is a valid rendering each time the word occurs. Also, it being based on the American Standard Version results in some of its wordings sounding archaic.

And they are not the only ones who see a problem with it.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...5i39j0i131j0i67j0i131i67j0i20i263.Wqt2T6B55yo

You may want to do some serious research there.

But I suppose if having more power than others is what we need, even if in reality we have no special power at all, we won't care what is presented against our "faith". As I've said before, "some" people often believe what serves their purpose, and it matters not to them what the bible really says. Some believe the word of God for what it is and other for what others/men say it is.

You and I both know folks didn't interpret the bible to say what you now believe, the bible was explained to them in that way by people, they liked it, and believed what they said. They needed/wanted to be special, to see themselves as more than the average Christian so they bit, hook line and sinker.

You can see that playing out on this very thread....people go into complete denial. You yourself have seen the Homosexuals do just that as well, but just as God gives them over to reprobate minds, I think he does the same to those who choose a way other than what the bible teaches. See how convinced the people are on this thread, in that they can do/believe something that is completely, and obviously against what the bible teaches?

BCsenior said:
"For by [means of the personal agency of]
one [Holy] Spirit we were all ... baptized ...
into one body, and all made
to drink of one [Holy] Spirit."
(1 Corinthians 1:13, The Amplified Bible)

This verse is simply stating that a new believer
is baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body
of believers called The Church.

No, it is not simply stating that. The parenthesis were added by men, and you know that, but as I already stated in my last posts, you will not see it.. that is what your people choose to see, and to build a religion around, one that suits their need, and to draw those in with the same need. That is the epitome of adding to the word of God, and what is going on here is precisely why there is such a terrible penalty for doing that, yet, and no judgment here, but in case you want to know, you yourself are in affect doing just that by pushing the added to scripture. I'm just saying, that would bother me more than I can say.

BCsenior said:
There is a second Spirit baptism, which is administered
by Jesus to some believers of His choosing.
It is a special anointing for some ministry.
It is called the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Those who are interested can be enlightened here ...
For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

You already posted that link, and I told you it fell apart immediately. If you want to debate then do that, or if you don't think you can back yourself up, keep posting the same link, as if to say, this is what you need to believe, end of story.

Those who believe that at the link choose to believe a version of the bible that helps those who choose to make something out of it that works for them. The bible simply does not say "holy" Spirit there, and if your Second Spirit Baptism explanation falls apart before we hardly get started reading it, how unreal is the rest of it going to be?

You had mentioned on another thread how this SSB gives individuals different power, what were the ones it gave to you?

Next, if you like, we can get into proving those powers out. Like the miracles, and how strangely, unlike Jesus who did his miracles in a place where the towns people knew those who were truly sick so they know they were truly healed, there is no real record of the miracles in question, or that some of them cannot be proven one way or the other, making it as far as anyone knows, a complete illusion for those who choose to believe it. And again, as we both know, people will believe anything they want to be true in spite of Gods word saying differently. If they cannot make the bible say what they want, they will find someone who can.

If you want to discuss that part, simply say so, and add what you like to what I've already said. If you'd rather not discuss it, I'll know by your lack of a response.

This is all about/for you and if you know for certain what I say will fall on deaf ears, then I imagine you'll continue to resist any actual debate, at which point I've done all I can in planting the seed.

Arthur B Via · Feb 21, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Your reply is full of excuses without addressing the text. Quite revealing. In the NT, brethren always refers to believers - never the unsaved - so your claim is preposterous. If you don't believe James, perhaps you will believe Jesus but somehow I doubt it given your persistence. In the story of the lost sheep in Luke 15 the lost sheep is referred to as a SINNER (v.7). This lost sheep/sinner was originally a part of the 99 other sheep who remained in the flock. This flock is described as those who NEED NO REPENTANCE (v.7). So originally this sheep was part of the other 99 who needed no repentance (believers) but becomes lost and is now a "sinner" in need of repentance. So your claim that a saved person cannot be lost is contradicted by the words of Jesus himself. I prefer to believe Jesus.

Always best to hear what God says, and NOT what "men" say God says. These are God's Words... First... "God has NOT given us a Spirit of fear". IF one has been called to believe and one truly does believe, they'll know that hell is real and ending up there for eternity is far beyond fear... It's outright terror, and we CAN'T go there once we BELIEVE! I sure hope, and Pray, for those who read this you'll accept the conclusive, loving, and simple Words of our precious Lord Jesus... The next day after feeding the four thousand a group of men came to Jesus, but Jesus/GOD knew their thoughts and He said, " you are looking for me not because you saw signs and miracles, but because you ate the loaves and had your fill " (free food). Shocked by Jesus' PERFECT accuracy of their thoughts they asked Jesus/GOD. "What are the works (PLURAL) that God requires? Jesus answered ---clearly and with NO ambiguity --" The work (singular) of God IS this; to BELIEVE in the One He/God has sent"/ PERIOD!!!! This is just one of dozens of quotes from God that destroys FEAR and paves our way to "the fruits of the Spirit". For those who obviously --prefer-- to promote fear among true believers... Please just Love them/us and direct ALL our attention, Worship, Praise to the ONLY One who was, and could be PERFECT... Our Glorious Lord Jesus... God bless you all...

Kenny'sID · Feb 21, 2019

Arthur B Via said:
Always best to hear what God says, and NOT what "men" say God says. These are God's Words... First... "God has NOT given us a Spirit of fear". IF one has been called to believe and one truly does believe, they'll know that hell is real and ending up there for eternity is far beyond fear... It's outright terror, and we CAN'T go there once we BELIEVE! I sure hope, and Pray, for those who read this you'll accept the conclusive, loving, and simple Words of our precious Lord Jesus...

I've made bold the "men's" words in your post, you know, the ones you say we shouldn't hear, and here is Jesus, or Gods word, quoted exactly, not mine, and be sure to notice the word "all":

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Jesus would not have made that warning for us if he weren't dead serious. He knows/knew exactly what kind of false teachings we are up against today...please, folks, don't be deceived.

Arthur B Via · Feb 21, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
I've made bold the "men's" words in your post, you know, the ones you say we shouldn't hear, and here is Jesus, or Gods word, quoted exactly, not mine, and be sure to notice the word "all":

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Jesus would not have made that warning for us if he weren't dead serious. He knows/knew exactly what kind of false teachings we are up against today...please, folks, don't be deceived.

Most common error today is that our precious Jesus said these things --- before --- He paid the full price for ALL our filthy ways. Read what He tells us ---after--- the resurrection and understand...

BCsenior · Feb 21, 2019

Arthur B Via said:
"What are the works (PLURAL) that God requires? Jesus answered ---clearly and with NO ambiguity -- "The work (singular) of God
IS this; to BELIEVE in the One
He/God has sent"

Thanks for the lesson on singulars and plurals.

Of course, the red is the absolute MUST place to START.

This is the net (similar to John 3:26, etc.)
that catches the little fishes!

If a little fish believes to the Father's satisfaction,
he receives the Holy Spirit and is born again!

Now, the most precious Holy Spirit can begin to
teach this little fish (who is now slurping milk) about
deeper spiritual Truths, which are absolutely necessary
for survival ... so he can swim deeper ... and make
it to heaven instead of hell (which is not to say
that heaven is below and hell is above).

Gradually, this little fish grows into a bigger fish
(and all the fishermen in the area are happy indeed).
P.S. I like to fish.

Oldmantook · Feb 21, 2019

Arthur B Via said:
Always best to hear what God says, and NOT what "men" say God says. These are God's Words... First... "God has NOT given us a Spirit of fear". IF one has been called to believe and one truly does believe, they'll know that hell is real and ending up there for eternity is far beyond fear... It's outright terror, and we CAN'T go there once we BELIEVE! I sure hope, and Pray, for those who read this you'll accept the conclusive, loving, and simple Words of our precious Lord Jesus... The next day after feeding the four thousand a group of men came to Jesus, but Jesus/GOD knew their thoughts and He said, " you are looking for me not because you saw signs and miracles, but because you ate the loaves and had your fill " (free food). Shocked by Jesus' PERFECT accuracy of their thoughts they asked Jesus/GOD. "What are the works (PLURAL) that God requires? Jesus answered ---clearly and with NO ambiguity --" The work (singular) of God IS this; to BELIEVE in the One He/God has sent"/ PERIOD!!!! This is just one of dozens of quotes from God that destroys FEAR and paves our way to "the fruits of the Spirit". For those who obviously --prefer-- to promote fear among true believers... Please just Love them/us and direct ALL our attention, Worship, Praise to the ONLY One who was, and could be PERFECT... Our Glorious Lord Jesus... God bless you all...

You believe John 3:16? So do I. Problem is you neglect Hebrews 5:9. Both believing and obeying are requisite for eternal life. You emphasize the former while ignoring the latter. Not a good thing to do.

FreeGrace2 · Feb 21, 2019

Oldmantook said:
You believe John 3:16? So do I. Problem is you neglect Hebrews 5:9. Both believing and obeying are requisite for eternal life. You emphasize the former while ignoring the latter. Not a good thing to do.

Except Heb 5:9 doesn't link obeying with gaining salvation in any way. But since you think so, please explain exactly how the words of the verse would lead anyone to such a conclusion.

"and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him"

Why would anyone even suggest that obeying here would be anything other than simply obeying His command to believe on Him?

There are many, many verses that directly faith/believing with salvation and eternal life.

How many other verses specifically claim that one's lifestyle of obedience is required for salvation? I'll go ahead and answer that easy question: none at all.

Context matters, as does discernment. Your view shows no discernment.

While believers are commanded to do good works, and even told we were created FOR good works, per Eph 2:10, v.9 also tells us that works have no place in getting saved.

Arthur B Via · Feb 21, 2019

Oldmantook said:
You believe John 3:16? So do I. Problem is you neglect Hebrews 5:9. Both believing and obeying are requisite for eternal life. You emphasize the former while ignoring the latter. Not a good thing to do.

When God's Word isn't read collectively and frequently, this is what we see kids. The Apostle Paul is possibly the most anointed man in God's Word, having been used by God to write over ---70%--- of the New Testament and God inspired Paul to write of his very personal -fight- with his "sun nature" in Romans 7 :14. READ IT! We who truly believe and have God's Word put ALL our Faith in Christ Jesus ' righteousness, not our own while avoiding our fithiness. Remember what God tells us in the Book of Genesis before the New covenant? "Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was credited to him as righteousness". Instilling fear is despicable. Instilling Love and Grace through Faith is Christ is truth... God bless you...

ALL habitual sinners are NOT in a saved state

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