Alien life???

[tulc]

tcampen wrote: (#13)
"This is why I'm looking forward to the three probes" ...

Please don't talk about probes and aliens in the same breath.
tulc(who shouldn't, but can't seem to stop)

 

[LorentzHA]

but now that i think of it , i dont see why there would be anyways

Same reason why there would be on this planet.

 

[ReUsAbLePhEoNiX]

Life, in terms of microscopic life or "space slime" as I have heard it called, may be somewhat common. Intelligent life, on the other hand, is probably extremely rare.

The most comprehensive book on this matter, in my opinion, is a book called "Rare Earth" by Brownlee and Ward. The authors, a biologist and a geologist from the University of Washington, use our planet as a model for what physical circumstances are probably neccessary for the development of life into intelligent life. They take the Drake Equation and blow it out of the water. Their conclusions are that intelligent life, at least in the Milky Way, is very rare and possibly unique.

I read that book the only thing I disagreed about was concerning COMPARISONS of classifications on DIVERSIFICATIONS CONDITIONS DEEPENS the DEFINITIONS of the calculations DEPICTIONS DIRECTIONS on the DIVERSIFICATIONS of evolutionary FUNCTIONS.
The bio-chemical genetic EXPRESSIONS the extractions of molecular information. the compositions of the formations functions with the conditions of the expressions of the genetic compositions CHARACTERIZATIONS.
ACQUISTIONS of ADAPTATIONS from evolutions directions?

 

[GeistAufHorizont]

eh...from the other forums online im used to im glad i got some intelligent replies....but if God created other intelligent...i take that back not if. God created intelligent life elsewhere his reasons for us or them never finding out about each other is simple....he created us all basically the same but we all obviously didnt go down the same paths in our exsistences.....several races may of never commited that original sin and thus wouldnt need salvation...so thier knowledge of God is completely different from ours...so lest we corrupt each other God is gonna get us ignorant of each other. We r all just little "experiments" possibly testing different limits of free will...

 

[tcampen]

tcampen wrote: (#13)
"This is why I'm looking forward to the three probes" ...

Please don't talk about probes and aliens in the same breath.
tulc(who shouldn't, but can't seem to stop)

sorry, my bad

 

[Siliconaut]

@Michali:

Lifeforms themselves did not adapt to it. The ones that were weak died, and the ones that lived made more that could live (I'm not contradicting you here. I just want to bring up a point.) Now, we know that life survives in so very many places, (even harsh ones such as extreme temperature zones) how is it that a lifeform with the specific nessecities to live came about by random genetic mutations (which are only small in their amount of change) when there needed to be a huge difference from other lifeforms to be able to survive there. Yes, they could have eventually moved there, but that would mean that they would have had to have already come up with the outstanding features that cause them to survive. These features would be somewhat useless in their previous habitat, why would they have evolved them? There is a gradual factor, but that is somewhat unlikely in the case of freezing climates across oceans. And there is also the sparks of life that we see at volcanic cracks on the ocean floor. Where else is it that hot enough under water to be able to gradually change that one?

You have repeated several mistakes: Mutations are common, and while mutations are quite random, natural selection definitely isn't. Evolution is a process guided by environmental pressure, thus actively molding species to fit better into their environmental niche, or to invade new territory. Luckily, I'm too tired to reiterate the whole issue right now.

*chhhh*

 

[Michali]

@Michali:
You have repeated several mistakes: Mutations are common, and while mutations are quite random, natural selection definitely isn't. Evolution is a process guided by environmental pressure, thus actively molding species to fit better into their environmental niche, or to invade new territory. Luckily, I'm too tired to reiterate the whole issue right now.

*chhhh*

Don't worry about it. I discussed the issue today with an atheist. Yeah I already know that the whole mutations are common and natural selection is an effect of it. I didn't use anything contradictory in my post about it. He let me know another "it was a very gradual process" and believed life's process to be patient and gentle. I say it would've killed all the bugers that had the guts to get that close to extreme circumstances. If it is by chance, we are lucky we have them just to look at them and say, "Whoa, look at Life and how it permeates the unpassable realms of earth, dude." Because, chances are, they wouldn't be without divine guidance. I guess we're just lucky...

 

[BEEJ]

What if aliens aren't really what they seem to be? What if they are demons using high-tech props to deceive the highly educated who are too smart and civilized to believe in or fear the same demons that have been reported to plague those with less education. I'm sure Satan is at least smart enough to change his approach to deceive people from as many different walks of life as possible, and to confuse the church if possible. I've read that alien encounters are similar to demon encounters (i.e. foul or sulfur smell, overcoming feeling of hopelessness, etc.) Out of curiosity one day, I ran a search on "Aliens are demons" and was surprised that so many others also believe this.

 

[LorentzHA]

What if aliens aren't really what they seem to be? What if they are demons using high-tech props to deceive the highly educated who are too smart and civilized to believe in or fear the same demons that have been reported to plague those with less education. I'm sure Satan is at least smart enough to change his approach to deceive people from as many different walks of life as possible, and to confuse the church if possible. I've read that alien encounters are similar to demon encounters (i.e. foul or sulfur smell, overcoming feeling of hopelessness, etc.) Out of curiosity one day, I ran a search on "Aliens are demons" and was surprised that so many others also believe this.

Or have you considered that the "demons" desribed in the Bible, as well as, "Angels" were perhaps people from another world and this is the only way minds of that time had to assimilate this information? You seem confused by the word Alien, it simply means: life outside of Earth. If we disvover ancient DNA on Mars or microbes it will be considered, "Alien life". Living beings on another planet would be "alien" just as people on Earth would be Alien to them. It does not mean a creature with 3 rows of teeth, spweing slime, with bad body odor chasing Sigourney Weaver around a space ship!

And no, actually, it does not surprise me that you were on a web site where many people believe aliens would be demonic, America is in a crisis in terms of intellectual decline. Many people would rather not think for themselves or consider anything from an educated or realistic view point. In fact the more we are discovering I have heard quite a few religious people here, in Texas, put out the word that education is "demonic" and should be something to be leary of. What a wonderful way for someone to make themself and their frinds feel better about having none! "Well darn there Jim-Bob, we are truly the blessed oned that we never hooked up with higher education pastor Tom says the Devil uses it as his Ve-hicle, at least we know we have not been decieved." See how that works? Religion knows science is on the cusp of discovering something that their clientele does not need to hear, so they are preconditioning, so when it is discovered they can blow there lips together and wave there collective hands in a dissmisive way and claim. "demonic knowledge-SATAN is the great deciever!"

Ignorance truly is bliss!

Many people, especially in the Bible Belt States, would rather have their pastor or friends or a televangelist tell them what to think and how to think it. If you do not put your brain through mental gymnastics the ability to perform cognitive reasoning will atrophy, much like muscles that are not used.

We have just recently discovered other solar systems within our own galaxy. People at this time knew NOTHING of other planets. It would be logical that if a visitor came ancient civilizations would assume them demonic or angelic. A Sulferous smell? There is not conclusive proof that anyone from another world has EVER visited Earth or ever will. It is the distances for one. They may be in another galaxy or even in another solar system within our own galaxy (Milky Way), wondering if there is anything "out there" besides them ... small minded people on there planet may be putting out the word to try and circumvent disvovery that if life is ever discovered outside of their planet, that it should be considered "DEMONIC"!!

 

[Siliconaut]

@Michali:

let me know another "it was a very gradual process" and believed life's process to be patient and gentle. I say it would've killed all the bugers that had the guts to get that close to extreme circumstances. If it is by chance, we are lucky we have them just to look at them and say, "Whoa, look at Life and how it permeates the unpassable realms of earth, dude." Because, chances are, they wouldn't be without divine guidance. I guess we're just lucky...

Patient and gentle? I'm sorry to say that your atheist friend has misunderstood the concept of natural selection - it is far from gentle, and definitely not patient with those lacking the facility for adaption.

As for "killing off the buggers stupid enough to permeate new ecological niches" - the opposite is true. When you have fifty species in concurrence for an ecological niche only large enough for half a dozen, the others are driven into fringe regions of this niche, so to say. If the warm, sulfur-rich water around a volcanic vent is beneficial for a wide array of microbes, small animals and predators, you can count on another species inhabiting the hotter areas, where they are less likely to be preyed upon, enjoy even more heat energy from the vent and a relatively unperturbed life - until, that is, an influx of new concurrence makes moving further into the vent an option.

When this process has ran for a while, you get species inhabiting niches you would think impossible for life to survive in. Life gets practically everywhere - just look at the bacteria munching happily away in your digestive tract: Not a particularly good view, but there's many a feast to be enjoyed for sure...

 

[tcampen]

What if aliens aren't really what they seem to be? What if they are demons using high-tech props to deceive the highly educated who are too smart and civilized to believe in or fear the same demons that have been reported to plague those with less education. I'm sure Satan is at least smart enough to change his approach to deceive people from as many different walks of life as possible, and to confuse the church if possible. I've read that alien encounters are similar to demon encounters (i.e. foul or sulfur smell, overcoming feeling of hopelessness, etc.) Out of curiosity one day, I ran a search on "Aliens are demons" and was surprised that so many others also believe this.

This "belief" is clearly rooted in sort of xenophobia. It's an irrational fear and knee jerk reaction to something without really knowing anything about it all. The concept that something perfectly natural as intellegent life visiting our planet being transformed into a demonic encounter is based solely on fact that intellegent life besides humans offends those people's biblical interpretations - requiring somthing to give.

The Bible does not even contemplate intelligent alien species, or Satan using such to deceive the people. In fact, with all of Satan's resources, it hardly seems necessary to create such an elaborate, sci-fi hoax.