Alcohol

[Byfaithalone1]

In some ways there is to be no give and take. This is called compromise.

Compromise isn't really what I had in mind, but I can see why my choice of words would be misunderstood. I am talking about "give and take" in terms of dialogue. The concept of "compromise" is the opposite of my thinking, as I am interested in the type of dialogue in which we can share ideas without being overly passionate about the conclusion. I believe that two people can have successful and productive dialogue even if they leave the discussion with different perspectives. I've experienced that in this forum a number of times.

We should love truth and not live to please men, but God.

I wonder whether those who are compelled to convince others to believe as they do please anyone, be it God or men.

I would rather suffer persecution for the truth, than to believe in a lie for peace sake and to save face.

It would be a very sad day if you were forced to do any of the above in this forum (assuming anyone had the power to force you to do such things). I don't think we've reached that point.

Q: Do you feel that you have compromised your belief system if you enter into dialogue with someone who believes differently than you do?
​

BFA

 

[Sophia7]

Just wondering what you guys think on the topic of alcohol.

Question number 1: Do you drink? (If this too private you dont have to answer)

No, I never have, and I think that the risks of overindulgence, impaired judgment, and addiction are too great for me to feel comfortable drinking alcohol personally.

Question number 2: Do you think the Bible supports drinking alcohol?

A better question, in my opinion, would be whether the Bible prohibits drinking alcohol, and the answer is that the Bible forbids drunkenness, not alcohol consumption in moderation. In fact, the Israelites were even allowed to buy alcoholic beverages with the proceeds of their tithes and to drink them in the presence of the Lord, if they were too far away to take their tithes to the tabernacle:

Deuteronomy 14:24 "If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the LORD your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you,
25 then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses.
26 "You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household."

​

Question number 3: Do you think Jesus drank fermented wine? and why?

Yes, because Jesus contrasted Himself with John the Baptist, who was a Nazirite, in regard to the issue of drinking wine:

Luke 7:33 "For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, 'He has a demon!'
34 "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'
35 "Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children."
​

Question number 4: Is it wrong for Godly people to drink?

No, it is not a sin to drink alcoholic beverages in moderation. It is a sin to get drunk. Having said that, I also believe that "all things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything" (1 Corinthians 6:12). For me, I do not believe that drinking any alcohol would be beneficial enough to outweigh the potential detrimental effects. For others, I can't make that same determination because the Bible doesn't.

 

[Sophia7]

No, people who were in service to God did not drink. (If levites drank fermented wine, while they working for God, they would be put to death).

Jesus was not a Levite, nor was He a Nazirite. Others were not required by law to abstain from fermented drink. And even the prohibition for the priests applied only when they went into the tabernacle.

 

[kenblaster5000]

Compromise isn't really what I had in mind, but I can see why my choice of words would be misunderstood. I am talking about "give and take" in terms of dialogue. The concept of "compromise" is the opposite of my thinking, as I am interested in the type of dialogue in which we can share ideas without being overly passionate about the conclusion. I believe that two people can have successful and productive dialogue even if they leave the discussion with different perspectives. I've experienced that in this forum a number of times.



I wonder whether those who are compelled to convince others to believe as they do please anyone, be it God or men.



It would be a very sad day if you were forced to do any of the above in this forum (assuming anyone had the power to force you to do such things). I don't think we've reached that point.

Q: Do you feel that you have compromised your belief system if you enter into dialogue with someone who believes differently than you do?
​

BFA

There are certain part of doctrine that I cannot deny. These are tenets and the foundation of my faith in Jesus Christ. I sometimes feel a need to relearn these because I go through so many doctrines, I start feeling a little lost, especially when I find out some preachers on tv believe some preposterous and heretical things concerning faith. I am coming out from among them. Not apostasy, it seems the apostasy has already started and has drawn my brothers and sisters away, but by the grace of God I am at least still standing.
As for entering in to dialogue with others, I have found that people do not even adhere to what their church believes or are ignorant of what they believe. I do not mind entering into discussions, and that seems to be my downfall, because I find myself drawn to a discussion, put forth my view, and find myself reported and in danger of being banned because I want to be another voice in a place where the majority of the people all believe one lie.
Jesus Christ gave up His ghost on the cross and said "it is finished." He shed His blood and died for my sins and healing. He shed His blood when they put the crown of thorns on His head for my mind. He died and rose the third day, and I die and am risen with Him in this life and the life to come. Jesus Christ is the Rock, the foundation we are to stand on. Every other way is sand. We are to not only stand upon the Rock, but be put down into the Rock as Moses was and saw the backside of God. We will go on further if we seek His face, we will see His face, and His light will shine upon us more glorious than Moses and the law. That is a fraction of what I believe and my doctrine. Be blessed.

 

[Sophia7]

I have a question though what is wrong with meat? Small amounts of meat are good for you?

I've been mostly vegetarian my whole life. I've had a small amount of fish here and there over the years. It's a personal choice. So I can't speak from a lot of experience about how I would feel if I ate meat.

I find that what works best for people varies a lot. In general, those in my SDA circles eat the least healthfully of all my circles. But I'm around quite a lot of health conscious people.

I find that the combination of what we know about foods from science, and what my body tells me, is a great combination for making good choices.

If you want to eat more healthfully, do a bit of study and then shift a couple things for a few weeks and see how you feel.

Just so I don't put myself on a high horse, I have had periods and moments of not the best choices. For sure.

I was not raised vegetarian but ate a vegetarian diet during college (at an SDA college) and for several years afterward. I've even spent some time on a very restrictive vegan diet. I now eat meat occasionally but prefer cooking vegetarian meals. I've found that what has worked for me healthwise at some times in my life hasn't worked at other times, and I've had to adjust my diet occasionally. For example, when I was pregnant with my first child, I couldn't drink any cow's milk because it made me feel sick. Also, doing a vegan, organic, unprocessed type of diet can be very expensive and time-consuming, and frankly even if I wanted to, I couldn't afford to do that right now. So I do what works for me in my current circumstances, and what works for me may not work for others. Vegetarianism is something that should not be urged on people (as some Adventists do) as the only right choice or even the only healthy choice.

 

[English Lad]

I truelly believe it is ok for a christian to drink alchohol, After all Jesus turned water into wine and there are many scriptures that talk about alchohol in a good way.

It is ok to drink and get "merry"

It is not ok to get absolutelly wasted.

 

[Sophia7]

Alcoholic drinking was part of the Israelites' covenant feast system as well as their weddings and other observances, and it was used under specific circumstances. It wasn't about one man downing a beer on his own after work. It was about community celebration. And worship!

I think the shift in our society towards alcohol use as a private affair rather than a social one, and as a means for escapism rather than as a vehicle for celebration and bonding --- that's worth taking another look at. Those are the greater harms from my perspective.

Last year or so I had read an article looking at the changes in alcohol use in England after local governments started limiting the hours that bars could operate there. The aim had been to reduce the drunk-crime rate and discourage youth loitering. What actually happened was that people got sloshed at the bars, and then went home and got more sloshed. As alcohol prices rose (so that the government could bring in more revenue), people lowered their bar time even more, bought cheaper alcohol to drink at home, and the sociologists found that dependency rates are going up, especially among young women -- the last group that they expected to be affected. The speculation is that because people are drinking privately a lot more, they are losing the checks/balances that one gets from drinking around others and in public. No one to say "Hey love, that's enough now."

I think there are more things in play here than just to-drink or not-to-drink.

Good points.

 

[Sophia7]

poor Coke.... its reputation is being besmirched....lol

I do like a Coke every now and again, or Root Beer, and sometimes even Vernon's Ginger Ale... however being in the south let me say that the beverage of choice is Sweet Tea... that would be Iced Sweet Tea, of course most places know automatically and would never think of serving sweet tea without ice....

While I rarely drink, I think in moderation it is acceptable.... as are some other things... all this talk of food and drink has awakened a craving for steak.... hmmmmm

I hardly ever drink carbonated beverages, but I love iced tea--not sweet tea, though. I don't like sugar in my tea or my coffee, which I also drink in moderation. Too much caffeine gives me headaches, so I have to limit my intake.

I guess I wouldn't fit in very well in the South as far as food. I don't like sweet tea or okra or collard greens.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

There are certain part of doctrine that I cannot deny. These are tenets and the foundation of my faith in Jesus Christ. I sometimes feel a need to relearn these because I go through so many doctrines, I start feeling a little lost, especially when I find out some preachers on tv believe some preposterous and heretical things concerning faith. I am coming out from among them. Not apostasy, it seems the apostasy has already started and has drawn my brothers and sisters away, but by the grace of God I am at least still standing.

Thanks for sharing a bit of your story, Ken.

As for entering in to dialogue with others, I have found that people do not even adhere to what their church believes or are ignorant of what they believe.

I'm sure that this is true in many cases. I still regularly attend a church and continue to find it beneficial. However, at this point in my life, I am less interested in adhering to what a church believes and more interested in understanding who God is.

I do not mind entering into discussions, and that seems to be my downfall, because I find myself drawn to a discussion, put forth my view, and find myself reported and in danger of being banned because I want to be another voice in a place where the majority of the people all believe one lie.

I am sad to hear that you have been reported and banned. I have been reported myself and didn't enjoy that experience.

However, I find your perspective that "the majority of the people all believe one lie" to be rather interesting. From my perspective, there is no one who understands, not even one. If we are going to talk about people who have believed (and unknowingly still believe) a lie, I'd have to include myself in that list. Such is the nature of humanity.

Jesus Christ gave up His ghost on the cross and said "it is finished." He shed His blood and died for my sins and healing. He shed His blood when they put the crown of thorns on His head for my mind. He died and rose the third day, and I die and am risen with Him in this life and the life to come. Jesus Christ is the Rock, the foundation we are to stand on. Every other way is sand. We are to not only stand upon the Rock, but be put down into the Rock as Moses was and saw the backside of God. We will go on further if we seek His face, we will see His face, and His light will shine upon us more glorious than Moses and the law. That is a fraction of what I believe and my doctrine. Be blessed.

So far, we're not far apart!

BFA

 

[kenblaster5000]

Thanks for sharing a bit of your story, Ken.



I'm sure that this is true in many cases. I still regularly attend a church and continue to find it beneficial. However, at this point in my life, I am less interested in adhering to what a church believes and more interested in understanding who God is.



I am sad to hear that you have been reported and banned. I have been reported myself and didn't enjoy that experience.

However, I find your perspective that "the majority of the people all believe one lie" to be rather interesting. From my perspective, there is no one who understands, not even one. If we are going to talk about people who have believed (and unknowingly still believe) a lie, I'd have to include myself in that list. Such is the nature of humanity.



So far, we're not far apart!

BFA

You are misquoting in one sense, when you say "there is no one who understands, no not one." More accurately, "There is no one that is good, no not one." There are those who are spiritually blind and those who are spiritually awake. We need to know by what spirit we are awakened, because there is the Holy Spirit and also seducing spirits. Some are awakened by kundalini, the serpent spirit. I have had a couple of visions of this dragon spewing something into a hole in the earth and spewing something on the horizon. Yes, I have visions and dreams at times, and I check to see if they are of God or not. The bible is our measuring stick. I do not tell you this to bring people to follow me. We all will have visions and dreams if we follow Christ and have the Holy Spirit. I do not understand all things, but in part, that is why it is important for the body of Christ to come together. Anyhow, I will move this discussion to you, personally, because this is going away from the op, but as a witness to these here, it is okay for now, this is seed thrown to the wayside, and the devil will come with his birds to eat it up. Be blessed.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

You are misquoting in one sense, when you say "there is no one who understands, no not one."

I don't know if it's a misquote. Romans 3 does indicate that there is no one who understands. I suppose we may differ as to what this actually means.

I do not understand all things,

Nor do I. This was the heart of the point I was making.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

I hardly ever drink carbonated beverages, but I love iced tea--not sweet tea, though. I don't like sugar in my tea or my coffee, which I also drink in moderation. Too much caffeine gives me headaches, so I have to limit my intake.

I guess I wouldn't fit in very well in the South as far as food. I don't like sweet tea or okra or collard greens.

How about fried green tomatoes? Fried pickle slices? BBQ? lol

 

[Sophia7]

How about fried green tomatoes? Fried pickle slices? BBQ? lol

Well, BBQ sounds good. I like pickles, but I've never tried fried pickles. Most fried things are pretty tasty, though. I can even tolerate fried okra.

 

[sentipente]

Well, BBQ sounds good. I like pickles, but I've never tried fried pickles. Most fried things are pretty tasty, though. I can even tolerate fried okra.

Fried is the only way I would eat Okra; floured and fried.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Fried is the only way I would eat Okra; floured and fried.

I'm with you. Too slimy otherwise.

BFA

 

[kenblaster5000]

I don't know if it's a misquote. Romans 3 does indicate that there is no one who understands. I suppose we may differ as to what this actually means.



Nor do I. This was the heart of the point I was making.

BFA

Romans 3:10-11

10. As it is written, There is none righteous, no , not one:
11. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh God.

I think we can be right or wrong with God. This is determined by His work and His blood. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. You seem right with God. We do understand thing by His Spirit, and I am sure we are seeking God. Really confusing. Verse 12 may explain that the ones who have gone out of the way are not righteous, do not understand, and do not seek God. They have become unprofitable, seeing that they may have been profitable at one time.

Maybe they are the ones that are also listed in Romans 1:22-32.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

We do understand thing by His Spirit.

I think this is key.

BFA