Alcohol...

[jukesk9]

The reason to drink is to not be sober.

First, I want to thank everyone involved with me allowing me to continue to post and ask. This has been a nice, civil discussion on a subject that is obviously a divisive one.

Second, I'd like to address this to eldermike. I disagree with drinking not to be sober. There are several different styles of beer and some taste wonderful. I enjoy a nice dinner with a couple of drinks. I don't get buzzed or feel altered when I do this. A good ale compliments a wonderful steak. I also think beer tastes good on a hot, summer day. Like yesterday, when I was done mowing the yard. I sat down and had a cool one.

But again, I respect the views of those who are against drinking.

 

[jukesk9]

Here is PLENTY of scripture to back it up!
Now, I can provide more if you would like about drunkenss but you said you did not want scripture with drunkenss.
God makes is clear in His word.
GEL

Totally in agreement drunkeness is a sin. I disagree that drinking is, however. The verses you posted, mostly from the Old Testament, need to be taken in context. For example, priests weren't allowed to have been drinking when the entered the Tent or were making sacrifices. Again, however, I respect your views against drinking. Thanks for posting with me.

 

[eldermike]

so please mr moderator--can this be my home and am i allowed to debate here?

I am not a mod here because I rather enjoy posting in this forum. But you have my vote.

 

[eldermike]

Second, I'd like to address this to eldermike. I disagree with drinking not to be sober. There are several different styles of beer and some taste wonderful. I enjoy a nice dinner with a couple of drinks. I don't get buzzed or feel altered when I do this. A good ale compliments a wonderful steak. I also think beer tastes good on a hot, summer day. Like yesterday, when I was done mowing the yard. I sat down and had a cool one.

I miss that I really do. But for me I am on call even after I finish the grass. But I do understand. Sin is not the issue with me, we are no longer bound by the power of sin. It's about being available and ready for whatever the Lord needs from me.

 

[OracleX]

thank you very much for explaining that. i'll go back to being nice and sweet again.

btw, several posts back one of the mod's warned about debating, and i was trying to figure out who that warning was directed to. it just occurred to me that it was probably....ME!!!!
i consider this my "home forum" so i just jump right in to any debating going on here (but nowhere else). i just don't happen to use the baptist icon because i think of myself as a christian more than a baptist. plus, my church is an independent bible-church, but it is very much like a general assoc of regular baptists church, so from that standpoint i fit much better here than in the non-denom forum. it truly never crossed my mind that perhaps i was breaking any rules by debating here. oooops! :o

so please mr moderator--can this be my home and am i allowed to debate here?

You are more than welcome to call this your home. We are glad to have you here and I have enjoyed your thoughts that you have posted.

As for your icon. I consider myself as a Christian not a Baptist. But since I attend a Baptist church I use that icon to associate myself with it. When people ask me what I am, I say Christian.

It does become a problem for debates though. Debates/descusions in this forum are for Baptists/AnaBaptist. So please keep that in mind.

 

[Cright]

Hi All!

I agree that drunkeness is a sin.
I agree that drinking (for some who have addictions) can be sinful.
I agree that drinking is not sinful for all, but it is good not to drink on many occasions so that we can be ready for any work we have to do for the Lord.
The reason I think that drinking is not always sinful is because even Jesus drank wine (weather or not it is the same wine we drink today is still debateable).

I think that a drink for a toast at a wedding is acceptable, a toast at new years w/ your family ... and on other occasions as well.

Anything in between should be prayed about... if your questioning yourself.. you shoulden't do it ... I find nothing wrong w/ people having a sip of wine for communion.. isn't that how it started in the first place? This is like 1/2 oz or less.

All the above is only my opinion (as a Baptist)...

God Bless,
Carina

 

[Crazy Liz]

This topic has gone on for 5 pages without anyone telling the fishing joke????

Why should you always invite TWO Baptists to go fishing with you?

If you only invite one, he'll drink all your beer. Invite two and they won't drink any.

 

[kayanne]

You are more than welcome to call this your home. We are glad to have you here and I have enjoyed your thoughts that you have posted.

As for your icon. I consider myself as a Christian not a Baptist. But since I attend a Baptist church I use that icon to associate myself with it. When people ask me what I am, I say Christian.

It does become a problem for debates though. Debates/descusions in this forum are for Baptists/AnaBaptist. So please keep that in mind.

Let me make sure I'm understanding correctly....if I use the "Christian" icon, I should not debate here? But since I'm more baptist than anything else (in terms of having a "home forum" in which I can freely discuss/debate) I should change my icon to baptist in order to "legally" debate here? I'm not trying to bend the rules or anything (by labelling myself with the baptist icon when my church isn't officially baptist), but I do want to have somewhere that I can respectfully debate with Christians most similar in doctrine to myself----here.
I've attended many baptist churches in my life, my son just graduated from a baptist school, our pastor attends baptist conventions, our church uses baptist sunday school/VBS materials, etc....so am I "close enough" to use the baptist icon and debate here?
kayanne (the "stranger and alien")

 

[OracleX]

Let me make sure I'm understanding correctly....if I use the "Christian" icon, I should not debate here? But since I'm more baptist than anything else (in terms of having a "home forum" in which I can freely discuss/debate) I should change my icon to baptist in order to "legally" debate here? I'm not trying to bend the rules or anything (by labelling myself with the baptist icon when my church isn't officially baptist), but I do want to have somewhere that I can respectfully debate with Christians most similar in doctrine to myself----here.
I've attended many baptist churches in my life, my son just graduated from a baptist school, our pastor attends baptist conventions, our church uses baptist sunday school/VBS materials, etc....so am I "close enough" to use the baptist icon and debate here?
kayanne (the "stranger and alien")

It really becomes a case by case thing. A couple years back I took a postition in a non-denomination church for about 6 months. During that time I would still consider myself a Baptist even though I was using my gifts in another church for a period of time.

Also, there are a few other people here that have Christian icons but attend baptist churchs. We go and check each person who gets involved here so that we can get to know you and also try and keep the peace.

For you, since your profile doesn't say what church you go to, it would be easier if you change your icon, but not a requirement.

One thing that we have to watch out for is people who use the Christian icon to get away with debating in all of the denom forums.

I hope this helps answer your question.

 

[kayanne]

.

For you, since your profile doesn't say what church you go to, it would be easier if you change your icon, but not a requirement.

One thing that we have to watch out for is people who use the Christian icon to get away with debating in all of the denom forums.

I hope this helps answer your question.

oh, i can see where the christian icon could be used as a "free pass" to debate everywhere. OK everyone, for the purpose of continuing the privilege of respectfully debating y'all here in the baptist/anabaptist forum, i now post under the icon of baptist!

 

[JM]

I've never understood why we as Baptists never use wine at the Lord's Supper...(unless it's to not cause the weaker brethren to stumble/fall) for a group of people that stress the literal Word of God we missed sure miss the point of this one.

The Jews used wine, not all wine is fermented with yeast.

I was able to find the following, and yes, wine can be kosher:

Quote:
Does the Talmud mention wine?
Answer: The Talmud mentions more than a dozen types of wine, including chamar (sparkling wine), kunditon (spiced wine), and yashan noshan (aged dry vintages).

When do Jews drink wine ?
Anytime they want... Actually, in terms of religious rites, Jews recite a Kiddush (sanctifying prayer) over wine prior to Shabbat and festival meals. During Havdalah, a kiddush is also recited. During the Passover and Tu B'Shvat Seders, four cups of wine are drunk. At jewish weddings, two cups of wine are drunk. At the brit milah (bris) of an eight day old male child, one cup of wine is drunk.

The most obvious evidence would be :

1. The use of the word *oinos*, which is never used to mean anything else except fermented wine.

2. The unvaried Jewish practise before and since the time of Jesus of the Jews using unleavend bread and fermented wine for the passover meal.

3. The fact that the passover/last supper/ etc. took place in Spring, 6 months after the harvest, and people in the ancient world did not have the technology to preserve grape juice unfermented for that long. It would have been either wine or vinegar.

There may be other things, but any one of these, let alone all three, seems to indicate that Jesus was almost certainly using fermented wine and unleavened bread when he said "do this in remembrance of me...".

I do not say that we are obliged to follow what Jesus did at the last supper. I have never celebrated the Eucharist with unfermented wine, but I have on occasion been known to use leavened bread, either because it was the local custom, for convenience, or because using a 'loaf' seemed appropriate for the gathering in question. I do not even suggest that people who use leavened bread and unfermented wine for Communion all the time are 'invalid' or disobeying the Lord's command.

The only reason I raise this matter is to point out the absurdity of you (and others) saying that Baptism must be dome by immersion because that is the way the Lord and the early Church did it, when a) that is not necessarily so, and b) you do not apply the same standards yourself to Holy Communion.

Nigel B. Mitchell nbm@echidna.id.au

 

[leah-bygrace]

Interesting topic. I know that I have thought about the same question many times.

My pastor believes as some of you posted, that the wine back then was of a lesser alcohol content. Where is the validity of this as an argument? I mean, can anyone explain why this is thought? Do we have an historical evidence for this? I'd really like to know.

I do believe that people in leadership roles or susceptible to addiction should stay clear away. But I am having a hard time believing that it's wrong to have an occasional drink now and then.

My pastor is also my bf's father, so I do not drink to prevent any problems for his family. But when I go to visit my parents in a different town and I want a drink at dinner I do so.

 

[JM]

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

 

[Frankie]

I miss that I really do. But for me I am on call even after I finish the grass. But I do understand. Sin is not the issue with me, we are no longer bound by the power of sin. It's about being available and ready for whatever the Lord needs from me.

eldermike, I wish I could find a pastor that was willing to sit down and have a beer with my husband. My husband is not a believer and he thinks that Christians as a whole are very stuffy and self-righteous. I am willing to bet a years income that if if a pastor came over, sat down with my hubby, had a beer with him, my hubby would be willing to listen to what that pastor had to say. Not because the pastor was drinking a beer but because my husband would see him as a "real" person.

God bless,
Frankie

 

[eldermike]

eldermike, I wish I could find a pastor that was willing to sit down and have a beer with my husband. My husband is not a believer and he thinks that Christians as a whole are very stuffy and self-righteous.

Good post! The problem with overcoming his logic is that to a large degree, He's right!

The trick is to have more fun as a Christian than as a non-Christian, this works! But it's hard to find a group of Christians that want to look up from the page and see the creation.

I will pray for a Christian mentor to enter your husbands life.