ain't we all????

[elijahlexis]

ain't we all (those of us who would call ourselves christian) jews by inheritance?
am i not a son of the most High God am i not bought with that ever precious Blood, so Holy! am i not Jewish just by the very fact that the word says i inherit all the Abramic promises.through the Blood and the Sacrifice and Resurrection
just count me in as a hillbilly Jew!!!!!!
SERIOUSLY FOLKS
just don't have a problem with Jews that believe that Jesus is the Messiah and i think we could all learn alot about how to walk in our lives if we would look to the tradition of the people that God Himself called His very Own
if Christ be First among the Brethren then would i be His brother? and would that make me a Jew jsut by my birhtright???
anyone ?
would make me proud to learn more about the faith and the tradition of the Jewish faith and the rituals and alllthat.
we could all learn alot !
and the messianic jews are the only ones who will teach us if we should want to know...............
praise God for all my brothers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pray for Israel!!!!!!!!!!!
God bless the Jewish people!!!!!!!
blessings, honor and prosperity upon you all

 

[simchat_torah]

ain't we all (those of us who would call ourselves christian) jews by inheritance?

No, this is called replacement theology... someting quite repugnant.

am i not Jewish just by the very fact that the word says i inherit all the Abramic promises.through the Blood and the Sacrifice and Resurrection
just count me in as a hillbilly Jew!!!!!!

no, I'm sorry.

You would be grafted into the family of HaShem (G-d), bt you would not be a Jew. However, as we each stand before HaShem our differences melt away, there is no Jew or Greek.

Yet in this life, as we live in our fleshly bodies... there are Jews and Greeks, there are males and females, and there are slave and free. There are different roles we each must fulfill, different prophecies we we each play out, etc.

To deny this the difference between Jew and Greek is to also deny a difference between men and women, etc... I know that I know that I know there is a difference between men and women. Why do so many gentiles not understand the difference between Jews and Gentiles? To me, this is very similar to the spirit of homosexuality.

 

[elijahlexis]

thanks for the attack simchat
i asked a question not stated a fact,
you have your opinion,i have mine and somewhere in there we MIGHT find what truth God has in it (maybe it will be us and not Him at all?!) but to exhort that my opinion is repugnant, and that it is similar to a spirit of homosexuality?!
i am hurt
seems i will never know what it is to be a jew (or chosen people of God)
or that it what i am getting from what i read in your response
i disagree
sounds like pride, sounds like classism, sounds like prejudice
just my opinion, and i pray God almighty give me clarity on it
in the meantime, lets keep God between us and we'll get along fine!
so our opinions differ
i stand by what i said,
you go ahead and stand by what you said
i did agree with you about it all mel.ting away when we stand before God
thats it though on agreement
sorry i started to take offense at your remarks, but i refuse to take offense
you are a brother
i love you
i pray foir you
we are blessed because of the same God

 

[elijahlexis]

825 blessings to you simchat

 

[Henaynei]

perhaps this would go more smoothly if it was more of an question and answer session??

Everyone please be very sure to review our forum specific rules before further discourse http://www.christianforums.com/t34460 - they are designed to facilitate good communication. Especially read the posts by Erwin (CF owner) and justinhulsey (Senior Mderator)

b'Shalom
Henaynei
Moderator

 

[simchat_torah]

What is Replacement theology in the eyes of a Jewish Believer? I have posted, in the past, my ideas (and traditional “Jewish Believer’s” take) on various aspects of replacement theology. But now I sit down to actually sum all of it’s teachings up in a nice neat package. (*** How strange it seems to me that Christians were not claiming to be Jews during the Holocaust... Just a thought)





Has G-d forsaken His people? This would be the first logical step in determining if a new people have now replaced Yisra’el. First let us look at Heb. 6:13 & 17.

“6:13 For when Elohim made a promise to Avraham, since he could swear by none greater, he swore by himself . 6:17 Wherein Elohim, being determined to show more abundantly to the heirs of the promise the immutability of his counsel, interposed with an oath”

Here we can see that His promise was eternal. He could find no greater way to seal His covenant, thus He swore by Himself. To break this….. well, you can imagine the theological magnitude of this….

But what if Yisra’el borke the covenant?

Jeremiah. 46:28 Don't be afraid you, O Ya`akov my servant, says YHWH; for I am with you: for I will make a full end of all the nations where I have driven you; but I will not make a full end of you, but I will correct you in measure, and will in no way leave you unpunished.

G-d will never make an end to Yisra’el. He may punish them, but never fully destroy Yisra’el.

Jeremiah . 31:35 Thus says YHWH, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, so that the waves of it roar; YHWH of hosts is his name: 31:36 If these ordinances depart from before me, says YHWH, then the seed of Yisra'el also shall cease from being a nation before me forever. 31:37 Thus says YHWH: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the eretz searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Yisra'el for all that they have done, says YHWH.

Here we can see that as long as there is a sun, moon, stars, Earth, and sea there will be a distinct people Yisra’el- no matter what they do.

In ancient days, covenants were made in a special way. Sacrificial animals were cut in two and their severed bodies placed in two lines. Both parties entered into the covenant would then walk between the carcasses. By doing so they were symbolically saying, “If I break this binding agreement, if I fail to uphold my side of the pact, then let me suffer the same fate that these animals have suffered.” But something was different in Genesis 15. Only G-d passed through the pieces! This was a one-way deal.

Gen. 15:17 It came to pass that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold, a smoking furnace, and a flaming torch passed between these pieces. 15:18 In that day YHWH made a covenant with Avram, saying, "To your seed have I given this land, from the river of Mitzrayim to the great river, the river Perat: 15:19 the Kinim, the Kenizzi, the Kadmoni, 15:20 the Hitti, the Perizzi, the Refa'im, 15:21 the Amori, the Kana`anim, the Girgashi, and the Yevusi."

And
Romans . 11:28 As concerning the good message, some are enemies because of you: but as concerning the chosen people, they are beloved for the fathers ' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of Elohim are irrevocable.

Then some ask, “Why are the Jews living outside the ‘new’ covenant if they are the covenant people?” Shaul had a simple answer to this:

Rom. 9:6-8
“Is it not as though G-d’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Yisra’el are Yisra’el. Nor because hey are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children…. In other words, it is not the natural children who are G-d’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Natural children refers to Yisra’el as a whole. G-d’s children refers to the believing remnant within natural Yisra’el.

We can see a similar parallel within Christianity. There are those who have been born into the ch-rch, and then there are those who are spiritually the ch-rch. These are those who have faith outside of simply being a part of Christianity only because that is what they were raised in. (this is only an example to show Christians what I mean)

On no definite occasion does the Brit Chadasha ever call the ch-rch Yisra’el. In fact, out of the 77 times the words “Yisra’el” and “Israellite” occur in the Brit Chadasha, there are only two verses in which Yisra’el couild possibly refer to the ch-rch as a whole: Gal. 6:16, where Shaul speaks of the “Yisra’el of G-d” and Rev. 7:4, where Yochanan speaks of the 144,000 seald from the twelve tribes of Yisra’el. This is saying something! Seventy-five “definites” and only two “maybes”. I wouldn’t want to side with the “maybes”!

Actually the terms “true Yisra’el” or “spiritual Yisra’el” never occur in the Bible, and it might be helpful to completely avoid using them.

As for the verses open to dispute, in Galations 6:16 the KJV, the NKJV, and the NASB all imply the same thing: “The Yisra’el of G-d” does not refer to the whole ch-rch. It refers to believing Jews. The same can be said for the description of the 144,000 sealed in Rev. 7:4. It most likely describes the harvest of the Jews worldwide. Elsewhere in the Book of Rev. “Yisra’el” means “Yisra’el” (Rev. 2:14) and “the twelve tribes” mean the “twelve tribes of Yisra’el”, as distinguished from the “twelve apostles” (Rev. 21:12-14).

Now let’s examine Rom. 2:28-29
“A man is not a Jew if he is ONLY one outwardly, nor is circumcison MERELY outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such is a man’s praise not from men, but from G-d.

Here he is directing his argument to Jews, as we can see from the context provided in Rom. 2:17-29. Within that context he is defining who the “real” Jew is- spiritually speaking.

In the greek Brit Chadasha, the word Jew occurs over 190 times. More than 190 times it definitely means a Jew nationally and ethnically. Only 2 times could it possibly mean something else. Those two times are: Rev. 2:9 & 3:9 where the reference is mae to “those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of HaSatan.”

I’m afraid my interpretation of the above verses will offend many, so I will leave it up to your interpretation.

But if someone understood Romans 2:2-20 to say that believing Gentiles were spiritual Jews (it is easy from the text to see ‘why’ many Christians believe this about themselves.) that would not change this important fact: Shaul never said that natural Jews were no longer Jews. He only said that the natural Jews were not Jews in this Special, Fuller sense. Just keep reading his letter! After making his point in Rom. 2:28-29 (remember, it is one of the few times in the entire Brit Chadasha that the word Jew is used like this), he goes back to referring to ALL Jews in the normal sense.

If you have any doubt read the next verse!

“What advantage is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? MUCH in EVERY WAY!….” (Rom. 3:1-2)

In other words, since being a Jew outwardly and physically doesn’t guarantee a right relationship with G-d, what’s the advantage in being a Jew, a physically, circumcised, ethnic Jew? Much, in every way, because G-d entrusted His Word to His physical, natural people-the Jews! It really is quite simple. If Shaul was teaching that natural Jews were no longer Jews and that believing Gentiles are not the real Jews, what in the world did he mean in Romans 3:9?

“We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.”

If Jews are not Jews and Gentiles are not Gentiles, what was Shaul trying to to say in Romans 3:29?

“Is G-d the G-d of the Jews only? Is He not the G-d of the Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too.”

And what then would be the meaning of Rom. 15:27 if believing gentiles are now Jews?

“… For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings.”

Clearly gentile means gentile and Jew means Jew.
It is one thing to argue that once or twice Shaul used the words “Yisra’el” and “Jew” in a special sense, referring to the whle sh-rch as the “Yisra’el of G-d”, and all believers as “Jews”. (I personally disagree with this, but I certainly wouldn’t call this position dangerous) But it is another thing entirely to turn around and ignore the remaining 268 Brit Chadasha references to “yisra’el” and “jew” and claim that Yisra’el is no longer Yisra’el and Jews are no longer Jews! That most certainly is dangerous.

It is one thing to say, “Shaul used the word ‘circumcision’ in a special sense (Phil. 3:3) to refer to all believers.” It is quite another thing to say, “Those who are physically circumcised on the eigth day are no longer counted as Jews”! Even the book of Dueteronomy recognized two circumcisions; the circumcision of the heart and the physical body.

As basic as this is, later ch-rch interpreters went way beyond the meaning of the Word. First they say, “You see, it is not all who are descended from Yisra’el who are Yisra’el. It is the true believers who are Yisra’el, and we are the true believers. We are Yisra’el! It’s not just believing Jews who are Yisra’el. Everyone who simply believes is Yisra’el too!”

What is so terrible about saying this? Maybe noting so far, but the next step was simply disastrous: “If the ch-rch is spiritual Yisra’el, the new Yisra’el, then there is no need for NATURAL Yisra’el, the OLD Yisra’el anymore. They are no longer the covenant people, we are.”

Allow me to quote just one of THOUSANDS throughout history who have exemplified this attitude:

“All the blessings given to Yisra’el are now ours… forever. As for you Jews, to hell with our cursed race!” (A papal ambassador to Poland during the Holocaust)

But the ch-rch has not cursed Yisra’el. The ch-rch has cursed herself! Shaul’s exhortation must be heard again:

“Do not be arrogant, but be afraid…. I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, borthers, so that you may not be conceited.” Rom. 11:20, 25

Look at the strong words Shaul uses: arrogant, ignorant, conceited. What a critically important subject for the ch-rch to understand! Ignorance of G-d’s purposes for Yisra’el breeds conceit. And a conceited ch-rch is a ch-rch resisted by the L-rd, for “G-d opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” James 4:6

Unfortunately, many in the body today still claim that it is the ch-rch alon who is the true Yisra’el. One well known author has written at length and with great passion saying, “Wake up Ch-rch! You alone are Yisra’el!”

Why don’t we just accept the obvious meaning of the text? Why don’t we just give up all our interpretive gymnastics?

G-d is looking for believers, not acrobats.

Shalom,

Yafet

P.S. Much of the above is borrowed from Michael Brown’s book “Our Hands Are Stained With Blood” chapter 13. I highly recommend this book, but beware, tears will flow as you read the first few chapters. Blessings to all….

 

[simchat_torah]

i am hurt

So am I by those who seek to replace the Jews and make the Jewish covenant as though it were nothing.

-Yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

sounds like pride, sounds like classism, sounds like prejudice

When we recognize the differences between the sexes are we being sexist? When a woman is honored for her role, and a man is honored for his role, is that sexism?

No.

Neither is honoring the role of the Jew and Gentile a racist issue.

shalom,
yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

but to exhort that my opinion is repugnant, and that it is similar to a spirit of homosexuality?!

The same spirit that wants to deny the role of the sexes is the same spirit that wants to deny the roles of the Jew and Gentile.

It is a perverted view to deny the role a woman plays in this life, as well to deny the role a gentile plays. Let us seek together to discover what roles G-d has ordained for us to live.

shalom,
yafet

 

[Flavius]

I was under the impression that the gentile who keeps Jewish costum is in no way counted out of the inheritance of Israel.

I don't keep Jewish costum,I keep the moed's and because of these traditions I count myself called of Israel.

I don't count myself of being of the house of Judah.I count myself of replacing Ephraim,the northern kingdom of the house of Israel.

The northern tribes became known as the lost tribes of Israel because of the sins of Jereboam who changed the Sabboths,locations.The ten lost tribes traded their entire worship from the G-d of Israel to the messiah of Babylon,they became as a dead man and I am here to tell you that I have replaced a man in Israel today but I don't worship the Messiah of Babylon,I worship the Messiah of Israel and I am of Ephraim.I am not of the house of Judah,However there is therefore no ddifference between Jew and gentile because I as a gentile accept the traditions of a Jewish culture.

Well that's how I've have interpreted that scripture.I have just about never disagreed with Simchat Torah.And maybe I dont even now but here is my question Yafet.

I am a gentile but I consider myself a Jew,people make fun of me,they tell me i'm not a Jew because they see me at Sukkot and Pesach.I do not have Jewish blood and I don't consider myself of the house of Judah.

The last 5 years of my life has been a great big sacrifice,I am alienated because of how I believe.

My wife left me because of Sukkot and I have not comprimised.I turned down Christmass bonuses and got fired because of it.

I feel so sorry for myself because I'm not in Israel and I truly believe that I have land there that belongs to me.

Alot of people claim Palistinian land of Samaria,but I have kept quiet all this time but I have to tell you that I have replaced Ephraim and Gaza belongs to me.It's mine,aand the west bank is my resting place.

My question is S.T.-Am I of the tribes of Israel?

Am I?

If I am,that means I replaced somebody,if I'm not called of Israel then I have a problem.

 

[simchat_torah]

I was under the impression that the gentile who keeps Jewish costum is in no way counted out of the inheritance of Israel.

A gentile who converts will receive the inheritance of Israel.

Otherwise, they will inherit the blessings that the G-d fearers will receive.

I don't keep Jewish costum,I keep the moed's and because of these traditions I count myself called of Israel.

This is a confusing statement. The Moedim are a part of Jewish custom.
???

I don't count myself of being of the house of Judah.I count myself of replacing Ephraim,the northern kingdom of the house of Israel.

Under what grounds have you replaced them? HaShem states in Hosea, Ezekiel, and many other places that Ephraim, while it does have a time of sinfulness, will return unto HaShem. What grounds do you feel you replaced them?

The northern tribes became known as the lost tribes of Israel because of the sins of Jereboam who changed the Sabboths,locations.

No.

They are known as the "lost tribes" because of the great diaspora. The northern tribes didn't fully return to the land of Israel. While some did, and the term 'lost tribes' is somewhat deceptive, the greater masses from each tribe were assimilated into other cultures. They were dispersed among the nations. There are a great number of prophecies that declare the returning of these people back to the marriage covenant... the Torah. Again, See Hosea.

The ten lost tribes traded their entire worship from the G-d of Israel to the messiah of Babylon,they became as a dead man and I am here to tell you that I have replaced a man in Israel today but I don't worship the Messiah of Babylon,I worship the Messiah of Israel and I am of Ephraim.

I really hate to hear this because nothing could be further from the truth. If you want to be adopted in, that is fine... but no one is replaced. Once more, the tribes are not lost... and the only prophecies we have in the Tenach speak of their return... not their replacement.

.I am not of the house of Judah,However there is therefore no ddifference between Jew and gentile because I as a gentile accept the traditions of a Jewish culture.

First of all, accepting the traditions and conversion are two different things. Secondly, there is a special blessing given to the gentile who follows HaShem. I believe you, and others, have created this 'replacement' theology because you did not discover the blessing given to the gentiles who love and follow HaShem. So, you decided to replace those whom you could see a tangible blessing for.

I am a gentile but I consider myself a Jew...

I am sorry.

I do not have Jewish blood and I don't consider myself of the house of Judah.T

Then why the twisted need to define yourself as a Jew?

The last 5 years of my life has been a great big sacrifice,I am alienated because of how I believe.

I'm afraid much of the sacrafice was in vain if you believe you are Jewish.

I turned down Christmass bonuses and got fired because of it.

Yes, these are the sacrafices that all G-d fearers make. However, making this sacrafice does not make you a Jew, and by no means does it mean that you replace someone who actually is Jewish!

I feel so sorry for myself because I'm not in Israel and I truly believe that I have land there that belongs to me.

Alot of people claim Palistinian land of Samaria,but I have kept quiet all this time but I have to tell you that I have replaced Ephraim and Gaza belongs to me.It's mine,aand the west bank is my resting place.

I don't even know where to begin describing how off base this is.

My question is S.T.-Am I of the tribes of Israel?

No.

1) The tribes were not 'lost'.
2) Those who were a part of the tribes that were assimilated will return to the marriage vows again someday, if they haven't already.
3) If you did convert, you would not replace someone who is Jewish.

Am I?

Again, a resounding no.

Sorry.

If I am,that means I replaced somebody,if I'm not called of Israel then I have a problem.

Yes, quite a problem.




Peace unto you,
Yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

A note on "Moed" for clarification:




Moed



These are the individual tractates of Moed, the second order of the Mishna. These descriptions are not meant as Halachic decisions. Please consult an Orthodox Rabbi for specific information.

• Shabbos - The laws of the Sabbath.
• Eruvin - The complicated laws concerning carrying outside of one's house on Shabbos.
• Pesachim - The laws of Passover (both today and in the time of the Temple).
• Shekalim - The laws concerning every Jew's annual contribution to the Temple.
• Yoma - The laws of Yom Kippur.
• Succah - The laws of the festival of Tabernacles (Succos).
• Beitza - The general laws of festivals (Yom Tov).
• Rosh Hashana - The laws of the Jewish new year.
• Ta'anis - The laws concerning the fast days in the Jewish calendar.
• Megila - The laws of the various Mitzvos surrounding the festival of Purim.
• Moed Katan - The laws of the intervening days (Chol Hamoed) of both Succos and Pesach.
• Chagiga - The laws concerning the bringing of an animal offering on each of the pilgrimage festivals.

 

[Henaynei]

I am a gentile who has kept the "feasts and festivals" for over 17 years - we have been "alarmingly Orthodox" to those around us for over 10 years. We keep the 3 foundation pillars of Judaism: Shabbat, Taharat HaMishpokha and Kashrut - and we strive to do it better and more unerringly every day as well as increasingly incorporate the other mitzvot and halakah. We cover, DH & I (i.e. cover our heads, he with a kippah, me with a full-head opaque snood) and have for over 10 years. We shun Christian festivals, traditions, theology and thinking. Unless told otherwise the majority of both Christians AND Jews think I am Jewish...... they are wrong.

I keep these things because I love G-d, but I am not a Jew, or because doing so makes me a Jew. Yes, if I could find a kosher conversion in the Messianic Movement I *would* convert (very few in or out of the Messianic community realize just how traumatic, contorting and sacrificial the conversion process is) - but, alas, such does not yet exist - and until it does there is NO WAY I can call myself Jewish.

I *am* grafted into the Commonwealth of Israel - that is I have a covenant, as an observant g-dfearer and a goy, with the G-d of Israel, I have chosen to come along side, to stand alongside, to sojourn with Israel. I have replaced no one. I am here to honor and serve the true Jews, to lift them up and protect them, to respect them and to bring glory to the G-d of Israel.

I can not make aliyah, EVEN if I converted I would not be allowed. I know this, it grieves and disappoints me, but it is true.... until and when G-d makes a change in Israel - it WILL come, in my lifetime, maybe not..... and all is as it should be, for G-d is the Dayan Emet - Righteous Judge. His will be done.

The single largest barrier today to Jews accepting Yeshua is the fact that so many goyim think that by taking on the mitzvot of Torah they replace Jews.

My heart and soul are in Israel, my heart, soul and flesh follow after the G-d of Israel and seek to do His will as expressed in His Torah.

BUT - I am a goy.

 

[muffler dragon]

thanks for the attack simchat
i asked a question not stated a fact,
you have your opinion,i have mine and somewhere in there we MIGHT find what truth God has in it (maybe it will be us and not Him at all?!) but to exhort that my opinion is repugnant, and that it is similar to a spirit of homosexuality?!
i am hurt
seems i will never know what it is to be a jew (or chosen people of God)
or that it what i am getting from what i read in your response
i disagree
sounds like pride, sounds like classism, sounds like prejudice
just my opinion, and i pray God almighty give me clarity on it
in the meantime, lets keep God between us and we'll get along fine!
so our opinions differ
i stand by what i said,
you go ahead and stand by what you said
i did agree with you about it all mel.ting away when we stand before God
thats it though on agreement
sorry i started to take offense at your remarks, but i refuse to take offense
you are a brother
i love you
i pray foir you
we are blessed because of the same God

Elijahlexis:

I think the largest problem of this post was created by the tone which you presented it with. But secondly, you did not choose your words well when trying to present your point. I cannot speak on behalf of ST, but what you have stated is something has caused a lot of resentment and pain for the last 2000 years (or less).

I suggest you come and spend some time here, but allow yourself to operate in more of an observance measure and you will learn a lot. You might even see why your words cut so deep in the first place.

m.d.

 

[ShirChadash]

I am a gentile who has kept the "feasts and festivals" for over 17 years - we have been "alarmingly Orthodox" to those around us for over 10 years. We keep the 3 foundation pillars of Judaism: Shabbat, Taharat HaMishpokha and Kashrut - and we strive to do it better and more unerringly every day as well as increasingly incorporate the other mitzvot and halakah. We cover, DH & I (i.e. cover our heads, he with a kippah, me with a full-head opaque snood) and have for over 10 years. We shun Christian festivals, traditions, theology and thinking. Unless told otherwise the majority of both Christians AND Jews think I am Jewish...... they are wrong.

I keep these things because I love G-d, but I am not a Jew, or because doing so makes me a Jew. Yes, if I could find a kosher conversion in the Messianic Movement I *would* convert (very few in or out of the Messianic community realize just how traumatic, contorting and sacrificial the conversion process is) - but, alas, such does not yet exist - and until it does there is NO WAY I can call myself Jewish.

I *am* grafted into the Commonwealth of Israel - that is I have a covenant, as an observant g-dfearer and a goy, with the G-d of Israel, I have chosen to come along side, to stand alongside, to sojourn with Israel. I have replaced no one. I am here to honor and serve the true Jews, to lift them up and protect them, to respect them and to bring glory to the G-d of Israel.

I can not make aliyah, EVEN if I converted I would not be allowed. I know this, it grieves and disappoints me, but it is true.... until and when G-d makes a change in Israel - it WILL come, in my lifetime, maybe not..... and all is as it should be, for G-d is the Dayan Emet - Righteous Judge. His will be done.

The single largest barrier today to Jews accepting Yeshua is the fact that so many goyim think that by taking on the mitzvot of Torah they replace Jews.

My heart and soul are in Israel, my heart, soul and flesh follow after the G-d of Israel and seek to do His will as expressed in His Torah.

BUT - I am a goy.

Well said, Henny. And I totally agree. Ditto.

 

[iitb]

I really hate to hear this because nothing could be further from the truth. If you want to be adopted in, that is fine... but no one is replaced. Once more, the tribes are not lost... and the only prophecies we have in the Tenach speak of their return... not their replacement.

Weren't you working on an article concerning the "righteous goy?" 'Cause, if you're anywhere near done, now seems like the perfect time to offer it up! (although I don't expect it to be done, as I realize the last several months have been rather hectic for you. )

 

[ShirChadash]

Gently, humbly offering what I see to be the crux of the issue -- adopting-in is never replacing. If a couple which already has children later adopts some children into their home, are the children of the home replaced by the adopted ones? If the children of the home have left for college and they aren't in the home any longer, but run their lives outside their parents' rule... are those children of the home replaced when new ones are adopted in? No. The new children do not suddenly become the family aside from and outside of the children of the home. No one is replaced. No one is replaced. No one is replaced. If I could tattoo it on my forhead for all believers to begin to know this... I would.

No, we are not all Jews. I am not a Jew. But I do not need to be a Jew, and I do not have to be a Jew. G-d's Word is for me; because of Yeshua, I am adopted INTO His family and I may embrace and follow His whole Word. I do not replace my elder brother, nor even the absent "black sheep" of the family who has taken himself out from under the authority of my Abba, for a time. Rather, I am adopted. I am added in.

 

[Flavius]

Ok Simchat,you got me on that definition of Moed.

When I said moed I meant the festivals when I said I don't follow the Jewish costum because they aren't Jewish,they are Hashem's customs.Where that leaves me is looking like a Jew,As far as everyone is concerned I am a Jew.If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck.

Here's where my confusion starts and maybe you can better explain it to me cause I've been wrong many times before.

Romans quoting Hosea saying not my people become my people explaining how gentiles are grafted through the Northern kingdom called the House of Israel.

I don't have a need to be a Jew,I have a need to be Israeli.If I tell that to anybody they say{oh you wanna be a Jew}.

I think if a gentile keeps Hashem's custom,He is seen as a Jew in the eyes of the world and the only difference between a Jew and that Gentile is blood.

The Northern kingdom through off the Torah and married into gentiles,into the nations.The are lost because they no longer keep the tradition and they became gentile.I think where we have a disagreement is that you think Hashem will bring back the actual descendents of the Northern kingdom,I don't.

I believe there was a void and I'm trying to fill it.

 

[simchat_torah]

People who come here with open hearts to learn from you could be spoken to more tactfully, not described as having a "twisted need", or among the other perjorative statments which abound here on this thread.

This goy stayed here because this forum was so very positive. Now it isn't, so this goy is gone. This is too painful and upsetting for me; I'm even having nightmares over it.

Flavius has not left. Flavius is who the comment in question was directed towards.

I shall recant the use of the word twisted, I was rather upset by the 'convoluted' things expressed in his post... "I have replaced a Jew"... "I rightfully have land coming to me in Israel"... etc. To me, yes.... that is pretty dang twisted. To demand land from some Jew in Israel because you happen to observe one particular feast (sukkot) doesn't mean you have the right to steal away their land, and even have the audacity to tell them they are no longer a Jew. I have no regrets in using the word twisted, but for the sake of peace here... I recant the statement and replace it with 'convoluted'.

-Yafet

 

[Flavius]

Flavius has not left. Flavius is who the comment in question was directed towards.

I shall recant the use of the word twisted, I was rather upset by the 'convoluted' things expressed in his post... "I have replaced a Jew"... "I rightfully have land coming to me in Israel"... etc. To me, yes.... that is pretty dang twisted. To demand land from some Jew in Israel because you happen to observe one particular feast (sukkot) doesn't mean you have the right to steal away their land, and even have the audacity to tell them they are no longer a Jew. I have no regrets in using the word twisted, but for the sake of peace here... I recant the statement and replace it with 'convoluted'.

-Yafet

S.T. knows me allready,it's ok,I am Twisted but at no time did I ever say anything about replacing a Jew or taking a Jew's land.The Northern kingdom wasn't Jewish and the Southern Kingdom has never owned Gaza.