Aiming is useless .....

[Wings like Eagles]

The great one, Rob Leatham

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Aiming and barrel control are the two key items to shot placement. Not as much fun as going to the range and dumping mags, but vital to being able to placing shots when the chips are down both in competition and otherwise. The muscle memory that develops from controlled shooting will eventually result in the ability to spontaneously point and shoot when required. I complete in both club level IDPA type shooting and PPC. I also occasionally shoot bulls eye. Many of our newer members are not the least bit interested in bulls eye or PPC; it is not exciting enough. Those of us who have and do still shoot those other disciplines are always in the top accuracy scores. Being old, fat and show the days of me scoring high for speed are past, but I routinely am either 1 or 2 for accuracy. I also don't practice much, and am always switching pistols for variety; 9mm CZ clone, .45 1911, GP100 and in our rimfire shoots a High-standard Sharpshooter; and able to achieve the same high level of accuracy with all 4 of these, consistently.

This is why I advocate for controlled practicing with a high emphasis on sighting.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Aiming and barrel control are the two key items to shot placement. Not as much fun as going to the range and dumping mags, but vital to being able to placing shots when the chips are down both in competition and otherwise. The muscle memory that develops from controlled shooting will eventually result in the ability to spontaneously point and shoot when required. I complete in both club level IDPA type shooting and PPC. I also occasionally shoot bulls eye. Many of our newer members are not the least bit interested in bulls eye or PPC; it is not exciting enough. Those of us who have and do still shoot those other disciplines are always in the top accuracy scores. Being old, fat and show the days of me scoring high for speed are past, but I routinely am either 1 or 2 for accuracy. I also don't practice much, and am always switching pistols for variety; 9mm CZ clone, .45 1911, GP100 and in our rimfire shoots a High-standard Sharpshooter; and able to achieve the same high level of accuracy with all 4 of these, consistently.

This is why I advocate for controlled practicing with a high emphasis on sighting.

Agree with your post - I believe what Rob is saying is there is a process/progression to how shooting/aiming should be taught to beginners. Lots and lots of beginners get frustrated and quit before pulling the whole shooting/aiming thing together. Or are very dangerous because the flinch, missing the target or hitting the ground, throws bullets or splatter to places unwanted or uncontrolled eh.

But I agree it is different depending on what your goals are or what type of shooting you are going to do. But even with that, there is so much crossover that I have to agree with Rob on starting out, how shooting/aiming should be taught.

I started shooting revolvers for accuracy or bullseye and that is how I was taught. I had to unlearn a lot of what I did when I went into run and gun USPSA shooting eh. ..... lol my wife is Canadian, from Vancouver BC. just ejecting brass in your direction with the eh.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Agree with your post - I believe what Rob is saying is there is a process/progression to how shooting/aiming should be taught to beginners. Lots and lots of beginners get frustrated and quit before pulling the whole shooting/aiming thing together. Or are very dangerous because the flinch, missing the target or hitting the ground, throws bullets or splatter to places unwanted or uncontrolled eh.

But I agree it is different depending on what your goals are or what type of shooting you are going to do. But even with that, there is so much crossover that I have to agree with Rob on starting out, how shooting/aiming should be taught.

I started shooting revolvers for accuracy or bullseye and that is how I was taught. I had to unlearn a lot of what I did when I went into run and gun USPSA shooting eh. ..... lol my wife is Canadian, from Vancouver BC. just ejecting brass in your direction with the eh.

I'm a RSO and a club level instructor. Those who have been trained in Bullseye and PPC and who transition into run and gun style shooting and transition in to IDPA/IPSC type sports generally exhibit much better barrel and trigger control that the gung-ho types that have been plying shooting games, get a license, take a weekend holster course and instantly become "John Wicks". Barrel sweeps and an itchy trigger finger take a whole lot more time to become instinctive than a a weekend that teaches a bit of safety and some rules. Problem I'm finding is nobody wants to put in the time; they want what they want. Most can dump mags, but the penalty count is high. Most don't practice because they can't afford ammo; did not buy a .22 pistol when we could here in Canada.

Bullseye was all that was available to most of us when I started shooting hand-gun (70s), I did a lot of plinking on the farm, and in the 80's shot trap and skeet. Got into PPC about 10 years ago; IDPA was an easy transition; nothing to unlearn; I could shoot as accurately as about everyone, and trap and skeet did not hurt either. Trigger and barrel control are instinctive. Those of us who shoot well and safe are guys 40-70 years old; those in 20-40 age group who shoot multi discipline, including trap or sporting clays, shoot safe and well, and also improve progressively. The gung-ho gang improves slowly if at all, and continues to earn penalties and safety warnings. I don't entirely blame our members either; our gun-laws here in Canada are designed to destroy our sports; the economy has made our sport hard to access; and the woke, self entitled attitude has not done us any favors. Ranges are also threatened by urban encroachment; as is ours.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

I have a pile of certifications, trophies and awards that I have collected over the years, USPSA, NRA, IDPA, Multi-Gun, RSO, Stage Designer, Steel Challenge. Rob Leatham is arguably the greatest USPSA champion of all time, well that's why they call him the Legend.

DVC = Speed-Power-Accuracy, in USPSA this is what the score is based on, so there is a point in scoring where speed is favored over accuracy and visa/versa depending on the stage and target you are engaging at the time. In other words if you hit the side of the A-Zone it counts the same as hitting it in the center, but the sight picture and time required to hit the center takes longer so it is slower, you loose points ......... kind of what is good enough on this target. This is one of the keys to USPSA, the push/pull ... go to fast or not fast enough, this is part of the sport one needs to master.

Steel Challenge is all speed, IDPA favors Accuracy obviously as does bullseye, Multi-Gun is DVC.

Anyway, I think we are saying the same thing, I am not the best at articulating my thoughts.

Yeah - here there are a number of shooting groups engaged with BLM, in fact we just met with them again last week. The Bureau of Land Management under the Biden control is trying to close down shooting on Federal/BLM Land across our Country. This forces anyone shooting anywhere to go to a controlled range, if they can afford it. Their argument is trash some shooters leave behind which is valid and why most responsible shooters haul more trash out than they bring in. The reality here is, with the border being wide open there is trash every where, the desert is just being destroyed.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Found it, I remembered other shooters talking about it before also, Tori describes it as an acceptable sight picture:

"Do you use a traditional sight picture in targeting or a more instinctive alignment technique?

I use a pretty traditional and deliberate sight picture when I shoot. Not a 6 o’clock hold, but point of aim/point of impact. That said, I might engage targets more instinctively if they are at 5 yards or less. At 7 to 10 yards, I find an acceptable sight picture, but it would be less precise than when I’m shooting a longer-range target. The balance of speed and precision often comes down to determining what an acceptable sight picture is at varying distances."

Shooting Secrets: 13 Questions with ‘Top Gun’ Tori Nonaka

Competitive shooting is different than combat shooting. There’s no doubt about that. But it’s also true that the two have

www.athlonoutdoors.com

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Found it, I remembered other shooters talking about it before also, Tori describes it as an acceptable sight picture:

"Do you use a traditional sight picture in targeting or a more instinctive alignment technique?

I use a pretty traditional and deliberate sight picture when I shoot. Not a 6 o’clock hold, but point of aim/point of impact. That said, I might engage targets more instinctively if they are at 5 yards or less. At 7 to 10 yards, I find an acceptable sight picture, but it would be less precise than when I’m shooting a longer-range target. The balance of speed and precision often comes down to determining what an acceptable sight picture is at varying distances."

Shooting Secrets: 13 Questions with ‘Top Gun’ Tori Nonaka

Competitive shooting is different than combat shooting. There’s no doubt about that. But it’s also true that the two have

www.athlonoutdoors.com

I think we are saying the same thing in a different way, the point I was making was that after much practice with conscious sight picture control; sighting does become more intuitive, to the point where hand/eye coordination happen without us thinking about it... kind of like driving a car; when we start, we concentrate on every single action after some practice, we no longer need to think of each and every action, they happen almost automatically.

Pistols shoot where they shoot. I had an all steel Jericho in .40 S&W; it shot way low;; had to aim for the neck to hit the x-ring, high 12 O'clock.

My High Standard sharp shooter needs to be held in a standard 6:00. My 1911, CZ clone, GP100 and my .45 1851 Navy replica all shoot to point of aim.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

My competition firearms all are dialed in to shoot POA/POI at 25 yards with a given load/round.

But yep, all others shoot where they shoot, especially when changing ammo brands POA/POI change, I do switch the sights on some to get them closer though ad try to stay with the same ammo selection.

Did you notice how many rounds Tori shoots in a day of practice, 1000 to 2000 rounds wow, that's what I used to shoot in a week and a lot less now.

 

[MForbes]

I've never shot in USPSA competitions. I spent over 20 years in the service and had plenty of "run and gun" already. Most of my shooting since has required precision. I did shoot Steel Challenge (PCC) for a bit, and it was fun; however, back problems knocked me out of any type of standing position and I've moved over to benchrest shooting. For now I'm just shooting factory class, but I'm fixin' to hit 65 and retiring for good and saving up for a sweet benchrest rifle that'll keep me happy until I die.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

I've never shot in USPSA competitions. I spent over 20 years in the service and had plenty of "run and gun" already. Most of my shooting since has required precision. I did shoot Steel Challenge (PCC) for a bit, and it was fun; however, back problems knocked me out of any type of standing position and I've moved over to benchrest shooting. For now I'm just shooting factory class, but I'm fixin' to hit 65 and retiring for good and saving up for a sweet benchrest rifle that'll keep me happy until I die.

Thank you for your service ......... I am thinking about one of these for a bench rifle, fired a few in the past and they are very accurate, come in .22 as well:

1761 HB 20" 17HMR Thumbhole Single Stage Light Trigger (015618)

Anschutz Importation for North America

www.anschutznorthamerica.com

 

[MForbes]

Thank you for your service ......... I am thinking about one of these for a bench rifle, fired a few in the past and they are very accurate, come in .22 as well:

1761 HB 20" 17HMR Thumbhole Single Stage Light Trigger (015618)

Anschutz Importation for North America

www.anschutznorthamerica.com

Anschutz makes some great, accurate rifles and pistols. They're probably the best "out of the box" rifles out there. It's on the list for my retirement .22 rifle. Since Anschutz rifles are not allowed in factory class for ARA benchrest (more than $1250.00), it will be my Unlimited class rifle if I purchase one.