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theophilus40

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A physician who has made a complete examination of a person without having been told his age could probably make an accurate estimate of it because of his knowledge of how the aging process works. But what would happen if he were to travel back in time and examine Adam and Eve immediately after they were created and was then asked to estimate their age? If he didn’t know they had been created directly he would assume they had been born as babies and base his estimate on how long it would take for them to reach their present state if they had undergone the normal aging process. The result would be that his estimate would be much higher than their actual age.

Scientists who try to discover the age of the earth usually begin by assuming that the natural processes which are occurring now have been going on since the formation of the world and that there has never been any kind of divine intervention. They have come to the conclusion that the earth is billions of years old because that is how long it would take for these processes to bring about the conditions we see existing today.

But what if the Biblical account of creation is true? Then scientists who try to measure the earth’s age are in the same position as the doctor who tried to estimate the age of Adam and Eve. Their age estimates are off because they have a false idea of how the earth came into existence.

If the doctor who examined Adam and Eve were observant enough he would notice that they didn’t have navels. This would show that they hadn’t begun their existence inside their mothers’ wombs and so weren’t born the way other people are. Since they didn’t come into existence the way other people did then the usual methods of estimating age wouldn’t apply to them.

There is also evidence that the earth isn’t as old as most people believe. One example is finding soft tissue in the bones of dinosaurs that supposedly lived millions of years ago. This is from an article titled “Soft Tissue in Fossils” in the October 2012 issue of Answers magazine.
Ask the average layperson how he or she knows that the earth is millions or billions of years old, and that person will probably mention the dinosaurs, which nearly everybody “knows” died off 65 million years ago. A recent discovery by Dr. Mary Schweitzer, however, has given reason for all but committed evolutionists to question this assumption.

Bone slices from the fossilized thigh bone (femur) of a Tyrannosaurus rex found in the Hell Creek formation of Montana were studied under the microscope by Schweitzer. To her amazement, the bone showed what appeared to be blood vessels of the type seen in bone and marrow, and these contained what appeared to be red blood cells with nuclei, typical of reptiles and birds (but not mammals). The vessels even appeared to be lined with specialized endothelial cells found in all blood vessels.

Amazingly, the bone marrow contained what appeared to be flexible tissue. Initially, some skeptical scientists suggested that bacterial biofilms (dead bacteria aggregated in a slime) formed what only appear to be blood vessels and bone cells. Recently Schweitzer and coworkers found biochemical evidence for intact fragments of the protein collagen, which is the building block of connective tissue. This is important because collagen is a highly distinctive protein not made by bacteria. (See Schweitzer’s review article in Scientific American [December 2010, pp. 62–69] titled “Blood from Stone.”)
Soft tissue couldn’t have survived for such a long time so this is evidence that previous age estimates of the world must be wrong. Much more evidence of this kind can be found on answersingenesis.org and scienceagainstevolution.info.

The fact that Adam and Eve lacked navels would indicate that they had been created directly by God but what would happen if the doctor who examined them was an atheist? Would the evidence convince him that God existed or would he try to find some explanation for their existence that didn’t force him to abandon his beliefs? A look at how scientists have reacted to the discovery of soft dinosaur tissue shows that the second response is the most likely one. Here is more of the article quoted above.
Some evolutionists have strongly criticized Schweitzer’s conclusions because they are understandably reluctant to concede the existence of blood vessels, cells with nuclei, tissue elasticity, and intact protein fragments in a dinosaur bone dated at 68 million years old. Other evolutionists, who find Schweitzer’s evidence too compelling to ignore, simply conclude that there is some previously unrecognized form of fossilization that preserves cells and protein fragments over tens of millions of years. Needless to say, no evolutionist has publically considered the possibility that dinosaur fossils are not millions of years old.
If there is evidence that the earth is much younger than most people believe, why do most people believe it is much older? The answer is found in the article “The 10 Best Evidences from Science that Confirm a Young Earth” in the same issue of Answers.
In the rush to examine all these amazing scientific “evidences,” it’s easy to lose sight of the big picture. Such a mountain of scientific evidence, accumulated by researchers, seems to obviously contradict the supposed billions of years, so why don’t more people rush to accept the truth of a young earth based on the Bible?

The problem is, as we consider the topic of origins, all so-called “evidences” must be interpreted. Facts don’t speak for themselves. Interpreting the facts of the present becomes especially difficult when reconstructing the historical events that produced those present-day facts, because no humans have always been present to observe all the evidence and to record how all the evidence was produced.

Forensic scientists must make multiple assumptions about things they cannot observe. How was the original setting different? Were different processes in play? Was the scene later contaminated? Just one wrong assumption or one tiny piece of missing evidence could totally change how they reconstruct the past events that led to the present-day evidence.

That’s why, when discussing the age of the earth, Christians must be ready to explain the importance of starting points and assumptions. Reaching the correct conclusions requires the right starting point.
All of us have a desire to live our lives as we want without having to account to any higher authority for our actions. If we believe that the earth was created only a few thousand years ago we will be forced to believe that there is a God who intervenes in the affairs of the universe and who therefore cares about how we live. This is the reason most people, including scientists, subconsciously ignore evidence of God’s work and try to find alternate explanations for why we exist.

The belief that earth is billions of years old has become such an integral part of our culture that even some Christians who believe the Bible is true accept the prevailing beliefs and interpret the creation account in Genesis to make it conform to those beliefs.

The issue of Answers containing the articles I quoted from has much more scientific evidence that shows that the earth is younger than most people believe. You can read it online here:

Answers Magazine, Volume 7, Number 4 - Answers in Genesis
 

SkyWriting

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But what if the Biblical account of creation is true? Then scientists who try to measure the earth’s age are in the same position as the doctor who tried to estimate the age of Adam and Eve. Their age estimates are off because they have a false idea of how the earth came into existence. If the doctor who examined Adam and Eve were observant enough he would notice that they didn’t have navels.

Lets not pump up our imaginary facts and overstep our bounds.
We know nothing about said navels. :cool:
 
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Tigger45

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So in your garden of Eden Adam was created as a baby? Then it was a good thing Adam was created naked also so no one would have to change his diapers! hahaha
 
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Papias

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Tigger wrote:
So in your garden of Eden Adam was created as a baby? Then it was a good thing Adam was created naked also so no one would have to change his diapers! hahaha

No, no baby Adam required. Even if that was the case, isn't that a more plausible idea than the image of a human-like God leaning over and performing mouth to mouth resuscitation on a mudpie? Taking Gen literally leads to all kinds of bigger problems than diapers, like what language Adam spoke, how had been potty trained, how he knew how to walk, and so on.

Many TE's see Adam as symbolic of the whole human race. I, along with others such as the Pope, guess that Adam was the first transitional ape whom God gave a soul to.

Papias
 
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Tigger45

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First of all God is Spirit.
John 4:24

New International Version (NIV)

24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

Second I'll take the word of God over you, the pope and anyone else.
 
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theFijian

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First of all God is Spirit.
John 4:24

New International Version (NIV)

24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

Second I'll take the word of God over you, the pope and anyone else.

That's the verse I use whenever anybody disagrees with me too :thumbsup:
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Many TE's see Adam as symbolic of the whole human race. I, along with others such as the Pope, guess that Adam was the first transitional ape whom God gave a soul to.

Papias
Apes are souls, as every living creature is, in whom is the breath of life.
So what you are teaching is that one creature to whom God gave the breath of life, and commanded to multiply according to it's kind-the ape kind- was, all of a sudden, multiplying according to another kind, cause your imaginary god did it that way, to make a lie against the Way God said He did it.

Posting from an android phone makes a lot of silly things happen to a post -which is why I came to the real computer to edit- but not nearly as silly of things as TE claims, when it denies the Word of God from the beginning, and makes God a liar from the beginning, when He commanded the seas and land to bring forth all the different kinds of creatures in whom is the breath of life, in male and female pairs, and to multiply after their own kind by the seed created in the same, individual, kind, in the beginning.

TE denies all logic and makes an unbelievable, chaotic fable, out of the Truth.
 
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Calminian

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Thanks for posting theophilus40. I agree with your conclusion, it really is a spiritual issue, though I feel people are genuinely confused about the the scientific method and the assumptions it must make. And there's no knock on science here, it's just a limited method.

Adam would certainly be anomalous in many areas, but certainly the the idea he was just days old would be rejected out right.
 
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troodon

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The earth is not young. I mean that honestly and sincerely, it just isn't. The earth's geologic and paleontological records make zero sense under a young earth paradigm.

The only way the earth could be young is if the geologic record were purposefully created to deceive people and make them think that the earth is old. 'Purposefully', as in God would need to carve dinosaur footprints into rocks stratigraphically above those with other dinosaur remains. I could never believe that.
 
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theophilus40

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The earth is not young. I mean that honestly and sincerely, it just isn't. The earth's geologic and paleontological records make zero sense under a young earth paradigm.
The one who states his case first seems right,
until the other comes and examines him.
(Proverbs 18:17 ESV)
We live in a society in which most people believe the earth is old. As a result it is taught in our public schools as if it were a fact and no one is told that there is scientific evidence that contradicts this belief. When someone is only taught one side of a question the result is your attitude; nothing else makes any sense. But have you ever investigated the other side of the question to see if it is supported by evidence? If you ever decide to do so this would be a good place to start:

The 10 Best Evidences from Science that Confirm a Young Earth - Answers in Genesis

The only way the earth could be young is if the geologic record were purposefully created to deceive people and make them think that the earth is old. 'Purposefully', as in God would need to carve dinosaur footprints into rocks stratigraphically above those with other dinosaur remains. I could never believe that.
God hasn't deceived us. Many scientists deceive themselves by refusing to consider any evidence that doesn't support their beliefs.

The dinosaur footprints were left by read dinosaurs, who were among the animals created on the sixth day.

Here is another good site for anyone who is willing to look at the subject with an open mind.

Science Against Evolution Official Home Page
 
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troodon

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The one who states his case first seems right,
until the other comes and examines him.
(Proverbs 18:17 ESV)
We live in a society in which most people believe the earth is old. As a result it is taught in our public schools as if it were a fact and no one is told that there is scientific evidence that contradicts this belief. When someone is only taught one side of a question the result is your attitude; nothing else makes any sense. But have you ever investigated the other side of the question to see if it is supported by evidence? If you ever decide to do so this would be a good place to start:
No, my attitude does not come from being taught it. My attitude comes from studying it professionally. I've gone out and seen these rocks and fossils personally.

God hasn't deceived us. Many scientists deceive themselves by refusing to consider any evidence that doesn't support their beliefs.

The dinosaur footprints were left by read dinosaurs, who were among the animals created on the sixth day.
Fine, and the hundreds to thousands of feet of fossil-bearing sediment beneath those footprint layers, were those deposited in the ~2,000 years before the flood (according to YEC)?
 
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yeshuasavedme

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No, my attitude does not come from being taught it. My attitude comes from studying it professionally. I've gone out and seen these rocks and fossils personally.

Fine, and the hundreds to thousands of feet of fossil-bearing sediment beneath those footprint layers, were those deposited in the ~2,000 years before the flood (according to YEC).
If you read the Word of God without the bias of false doctrine that denies God and His word, then you would not believe the lie.

Believing God is the only Way to discover the Truth, in the first place, for men never agree and are always changing their minds.
God told us what He did, and He never changes His mind.
 
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troodon

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If you read the Word of God without the bias of false doctrine that denies God and His word, then you would not believe the lie.
Two points.

1) The Word, with a capital W, is Jesus.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

By saying it's the Bible you're committing idolatry (IMO).

2) There is nothing atheistic about saying that the earth is old or that life evolved. It has nothing to do with God's existence, it has nothing to do with Christ, it has nothing to do with His death or resurrection. The only thing it affects is how long ago God created the universe and how He went about it.

God told us what He did, and He never changes His mind.
Exodus 32:14
So the Lord relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.

1 Samuel 15:35
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

And those are just direct textural examples.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Two points.

1) The Word, with a capital W, is Jesus.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

By saying it's the Bible you're committing idolatry (IMO).
The Word was made Flesh, and dwelt among us, and before He was made flesh, He wrote the Word in heaven, which is called "The Scripture/Writing of Truth", in Daniel 10:21.

"It is Written" is Jesus' answer back to you, and "What is Written", is God's Holy Torah and the Prophets: all called "THE WORD OF YHWH"; but the histories and writings are faithful recordings of men, in which some "Thus saith YHWH" is included, also.
Moses wrote what Adam wrote for the record in the Torah about the Creation, and Adam was in Eden, where the Word is Written on tablets, so the record is true, from the beginning, as Jesus said it was.

You'll find that the tablets in heaven were written there, by God the Word -the very Oath of God, Himself- in the writings of Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam. Daniel 10:21 corroborates that fact, for that which the one sent to Daniel to show him what would befall his people in the latter days said that he would show Daniel what was written/inscribed/noted in the Scripture/Writing of TRUTH, and he showed Daniel what Daniel recorded for us in chapters 11 and 12 -right out of the Word of God written in heaven.

And "the Word was made Flesh, and dwelt among us".
 
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troodon

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The Word was made Flesh, and dwelt among us, and before He was made flesh, He wrote the Word in heaven, which is called "The Scripture/Writing of Truth", in Daniel 10:21.
God did not write the Bible, several different human beings did. "The Scripture/Writing of Truth", "Book of Truth", "true writings", "writing of truth", whatever translation you use none of these are the "Word". I would strongly recommend you not call it the "Word" - even if you want to believe that God wrote the Bible, Jesus is still not a book.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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God did not write the Bible, several different human beings did. "The Scripture/Writing of Truth", "Book of Truth", "true writings", "writing of truth", whatever translation you use none of these are the "Word". I would strongly recommend you not call it the "Word" - even if you want to believe that God wrote the Bible, Jesus is still not a book.
I would strongly recommend that you get a concordance for yourself, and see that the Word of God is both Written, and is also come in flesh;,
and was written in heaven as "The Scripture of Truth", on tablets [as Enoch reveals], before God the Word -who is the Truth- came in flesh.
And FYI, even the Decalogue -the Ten Words- was written on stone tablets below, by the Finger of God, Himself -twice!
 
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